Excessive trigger over travel

[anderson3754]

New member

By design what limits excessive trigger over travel in the 1911, preventing the the sear spring from being being lifted off of the sear. Is it the magazine release, the back of the trigger pad coming to stop against it. Or is it the grip safety when depressed, with the rear of the trigger bow contacting the clearance notch of the grip safety.
As an Armorer I've come across this problem a few times. I initially noticed this problem if the pistol is used with a death grip and the trigger is held hard and fully to the rear. The pistols will fire, and the hammer will fully follow the slide back down.
I realize this problem can be addressed if the trigger has over travel screw adjusted correctly against mag release, but I would like to know which parts should be corrected to address this problem.

[Dave Berryhill]

Welcome Anderson! Are you referring to the center leg or the left leg of the sear spring being lifted?

[anderson3754]

Welcome Anderson! Are you referring to the center leg or the left leg of the sear spring being lifted?

Hi, thank you for responding. It would be in reference to the left leg. I have been able to resolve this problem using a long trigger with a overtravel screw which as you know butts up to the mag release. However I'm really not a fan of the adjustable NM triggers for Law Enforcement
The problem only occurs when the trigger is pulled and held very hard to the rear. Upon inspection without the grip safety in place I can observe the trigger actually lifing the left sear leg completely off of the sear.
The two pistols in question are Series 70 Colt's, both from the early 80's or very late 70's. One is mine the other belongs to a fellow officer. If the lower notch for the grip safety is what governs the travel then I guess I would source out a grip safety that controls the over travel more efficently.

[Hawkmoon]

One of the pistols I tested for the E-zine (I think it was the Nighthawk Custom 10-8 pistol) had a trigger with a raised post coming off the back of the trigger pad, rather than an adjusting screw. This allows the gunsmith to set the trigger travel during assembly by filing the post, rather than turning the screw. Once it's right, there are no moving parts, so it can't get out of adjustment. That might do the job for you, and I don't think Nighthawk would turn down a request from an LEO to buy a trigger for a duty weapon.

[Spindly61]

Dave Berryhill offers a trigger that meets your needs. I have one in my pistol and it is nice.
https://www.shop.berryhillguns.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=7&categoryId=2

[anderson3754]

One of the pistols I tested for the E-zine (I think it was the Nighthawk Custom 10-8 pistol) had a trigger with a raised post coming off the back of the trigger pad, rather than an adjusting screw. This allows the gunsmith to set the trigger travel during assembly by filing the post, rather than turning the screw. Once it's right, there are no moving parts, so it can't get out of adjustment. That might do the job for you, and I don't think Nighthawk would turn down a request from an LEO to buy a trigger for a duty weapon.

Hi, now that sounds like a nice option. I really like keeping things simple. Hopefully they have that design in the short trigger style, which would be in keeping with the original length on the series 70.
Thanks for your info, really appreciate the help.

[anderson3754]

Dave Berryhill offers a trigger that meets your needs. I have one in my pistol and it is nice.
https://www.shop.berryhillguns.com/displayProductDocument.hg?productId=7&categoryId=2

Your trigger, is it of the long style or the short style. Hoping for a short style.
Still wondering though?? What actually controls the total rearward movement of the trigger on the original design. The mag catch or the grip safety disengagement notch.

[wichaka]

In the original design, it's the grip safety that stops the trigger.

Not sure what you mean by the "disengagement notch" The arm that stops the trigger bow? It's the lug just under that, that the trigger bow will contact. So if that part is out of spec, meaning to short.....you'll get the problem you're encountering.

[Dave Berryhill]

They are available in both long and short lengths. The overtravel stop is on the rear of the trigger and you adjust it by filing it length. That also eliminates the hole in the front of the trigger.

Being a retired cop, I was never comfortable with an adjustable set screw on a duty pistol. I used to drill a tiny hole through the side of the trigger and the set screw and install a roll pin to keep the screw from turning. This is a much cleaner solution.

Currently they are available with serrations but I've got smooth trigggers in both long and short lengths on the way. Those should be available in a week or two.
http://berryhillguns.com/trigger.jpg

[anderson3754]

They are available in both long and short lengths. The overtravel stop is on the rear of the trigger and you adjust it by filing it length. That also eliminates the hole in the front of the trigger.

Being a retired cop, I was never comfortable with an adjustable set screw on a duty pistol. I used to drill a tiny hole through the side of the trigger and the set screw and install a roll pin to keep the screw from turning. This is a much cleaner solution.

Currently they are available with serrations but I've got smooth trigggers in both long and short lengths on the way. Those should be available in a week or two.
http://berryhillguns.com/trigger.jpg

Thanks very much, just got done looking at them on your site and saw both triggers. I'm interested in the short one. I'll probably give you a call later this day, just fininshing putting my gear in the truck to go to the range. I like the design of that trigger, straight forward and simple.

Still wondering though what by design governs the overtravel might you have some input on that.

[anderson3754]

In the original design, it's the grip safety that stops the trigger.

Not sure what you mean by the "disengagement notch" The arm that stops the trigger bow? It's the lug just under that, that the trigger bow will contact. So if that part is out of spec, meaning to short.....you'll get the problem you're encountering.

Thanks your answer is what I thought, the grip safetys lower lug prevents the over travel. Sorry about the verbage, the lug under the arm stopping the triggerbow's rearward movement is what I meant.
Sometimes I think there is a dimensional problem with the whole gun but I agree with you, the grip safety by design is what is suppose to be in charge of limiting excessive overtravel.

As I mentioned, I'm new here, and really appreciate the advice that all have offered.

[Dave Berryhill]

In the original design, it's the grip safety that stops the trigger.

Not sure what you mean by the "disengagement notch" The arm that stops the trigger bow? It's the lug just under that, that the trigger bow will contact. So if that part is out of spec, meaning to short.....you'll get the problem you're encountering.

Exactly. The other issue is that even if that portion of the arm keeps the trigger from pushing the sear spring away from the sear, it still leaves more overtravel than most shooters like. Besides a trigger with an overtravel stop, another option is to weld up the arm of the grip safety and recut that shoulder to stop the trigger bow earlier. It's a lot more work than fitting a new trigger.

[Jim Bellino]

Correct me if I am wrong guys....but in some cases the problem can be solved by filing a bevel on the bottom rear edge of the trigger bow stirrup if there isn't too much contact being made with the sear spring as this seems to be what is happining to him only when he applies excessive pressure to the trigger. Dave, Wichaka...whatta ya think?

[anderson3754]

Correct me if I am wrong guys....but in some cases the problem can be solved by filing a bevel on the bottom rear edge of the trigger bow stirrup if there isn't too much contact being made with the sear spring as this seems to be what is happining to him only when he applies excessive pressure to the trigger. Dave, Wichaka...whatta ya think?

Jim Hi. Ya know I'm going to go down to the basement and look at that option in about 20 min. I did order a short trigger from D. Berryhill and few other items this morning, we had a nice conversaion about 1911's. I'm leaving Sun to go home to Ga to see my family for a few days I'll shout back when I get back. Thanks again for the advice.

[Jim Bellino]

Anderson....the fix I suggested will only work if there is only a minimal amount of contact with the sear spring....if you examine enough 1911's and trigger bows you will find that not all trigger bows are exactly the same length, that and dimentional tolerances between frames can cause the problem you are having. Examine enough triggers out of new pistols and you will find some have the slight relief bevel on the trigger bow stirrup from the factory just as a precautionary measure.
Ya can't go wrong with Dave Berryhill...he was in Phoenix when I purchased my 1st. 1911 and due to short fingers needed a short trigger....E mailed Dave, went to his shop, he gave me a short Colt trigger that was taken off another pistol. I think my suggestion may provide a fix for you but if you purchase a trigger from Dave and set the overtravel properly you will like the quality and feel better.
A lot of guys like to take the overtravel screw out and throw it away so it doesn't come loose on it's own and cause a failure to fire only to find out, due to tolerance stacking in certain guns, the pistol will now double or go full auto so one way or another the trigger bow must be kept away from the sear spring. Hope this helps(probably nothing Dave didn't already tell you).

[anderson3754]

Back from vacation. My D. Berryhill parts arrived promptly while I was gone. Last night I fitted the short trigger up with no problems, very happy and very pleased with the quality of the parts I received
Next on my list will be a few hammers.

[Jim Bellino]

Did you look at the option of putting a bevel on the lower edge of the trigger bow stirrup on the original trigger.....or maybe it already had a bevel? Just curious.

[anderson3754]

Did you look at the option of putting a bevel on the lower edge of the trigger bow stirrup on the original trigger.....or maybe it already had a bevel? Just curious.

Jim HI. Yes I did look, I do have a small bevel as you described on that lower edge, I mean a very small bevel, maybe if I increased the depth of the angle it is a possibility it would fix my problem, but I just decided to wait for the new short trigger from Mr Berryhill which worked very nice.
I was just crashing alittle bit wanting to know by design, what is suppose to stop the overtravel, the mag catch or the lower notch of the grip safety. Once I knew that I could address the problem a little more intelligently . I ran the gun for at least 10yrs with the long adjustable trigger which took care of the problem. The other factor is I have come full circle on some things. I now know I like arched mainspring housings, short triggers, standard style safety, fixed sights, 5lb triggers for defensive work, 230gr ball and 230 gr Hydro-shocks. This colt has been my friend for a long time, it shoots straight, works all the time, and every time. it isn't even magazine sensitive.
I just retired from L.E. a few months ago, I gave the gun a complete tuneup and should be good for another 20k or so rounds.
I appreciate your your thought of getting back to me. I'm a new guy here, and this site is really first class, nice people and just a ton of good information.

[Jim Bellino]

Anderson.....thx for the reply....I was just curious....you'll be happy with Dave B's parts....top shelf and the advice to go with it.
Good luck.....I retired 1 yr. ago and am loving it!

[Dave Berryhill]

...I do have a small bevel as you described on that lower edge, I mean a very small bevel, maybe if I increased the depth of the angle it is a possibility it would fix my problem, but I just decided to wait for the new short trigger from Mr Berryhill which worked very nice....
It still might be necessary to cut a bevel on the rear lower edge of the trigger bow, even on an aftermarket trigger.

Get thy good book (Kuhnhausen, Vol.1) and readith it!

[anderson3754]

It still might be necessary to cut a bevel on the rear lower edge of the trigger bow, even on an aftermarket trigger.

Get thy good book (Kuhnhausen, Vol.1) and readith it!

Dave Hi. I do have the book, having read it so many times it no longer has any binding. the pages just fall out.

Your trigger fit up very nice and resolved my problem. I went and shot it this afternoon at my old LE range put 200 plus rounds through it, not one hiccup.
Your short trigger and extended mag released worked out just perfect for me.

[Jim Bellino]

It still might be necessary to cut a bevel on the rear lower edge of the trigger bow, even on an aftermarket trigger.

Get thy good book (Kuhnhausen, Vol.1) and readith it!
Sage advice.....I cut a bevel 1st. on all triggers (wether they need it or not) as it only takes a minute and I bought Vol.1 and Vol.2. the good book for sure.....amen.

[anderson3754]

Sage advice.....I cut a bevel 1st. on all triggers (wether they need it or not) as it only takes a minute and I bought Vol.1 and Vol.2. the good book for sure.....amen.

I did not know there was a volume #2, when did that... come out??
Now I'll have to go search it out this week and buy it.

Ref the bevel on The Berryhill trigger I did put one on.

[anderson3754]

Well, I went and looked at my book. Apparently my book consists of book #1 and selected sections from book #2. The book I have has a total of 199 numbered pages. The first half of the book is called book #1, the second half of the book is called book #2 with a paragraph at the beginning explaining it/this contains selections of the complete shop manual.
I'm assuming "Book # 2" you are speaking about is the complete shop manual version, if I understand this correctly. Where can I obtain the complete version of book #2.

[Dave Berryhill]

Volume I is divided into two sections, Book I and Book II. Volume II contains some of the blueprints and more technical stuff. Brownells #924-800-245

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/924800245.jpg

[anderson3754]

Okay... as far as a nuts@bolts shop manual goes I do have both volumes then.

Thanks again