Satin Combat Commander Leave it alone?

[shake in the black]

I have been kicking around the Idea of modifying my Commander. I purchased it back in the early 70's new for around $125.00, thats correct, no typo. Then it was my primary CCW gun, way back when I lived in a state that actually trusted it's population to have a CCW.

Over the past 30 years I have put less than 200 rounds through it, so I was considering modifying it to use in either IDPA compact or trying to add a full size slide and barrel to shoot in some other form of competition. I guess I am just trying to find a reason to shoot it more often. Even if I have to modify it so one of my daughters can shoot it in Bullseye competition.

My concern is that I don't want to ruin a valuable firearm, but I don't want it to just sit in the safe and rot.

The only modification I have made is to add some combat type sights, I do have the original sight for it and they can be reinstalled in just a few minuets. The pistol has some pitting on the finish, probably due to the exposure and storing it in a holster for an extended time.

So I am looking for some input, either leave it alone or a rebuild with suggestions as to what you guys would do.

Thanks..................

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00214.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00213.jpg

[pulpsmack]

Funny you mention it.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/a_burning_touch/CCpicture0312.jpg

I have a '77' CCC in Satin Nickel myself that has presented me with the same dilemma. My experience is as follows:

- The weapon is in sound working order
- The weapon is 100% unadulterated
- The weapon is not pleasurable to shoot given the bite the commander tang puts into the web of the hand
- The satin nickel glare + small sights makes sight picture terrible in many situations
- The front sight post is as loose as a 6 year old's incisor
- The slide stop was fitted in a way that requires forceful two-handed manipulation
- There is a terrible idiot scratch on the frame thanks to the previous owner
- The original extractor broke with use and currently has a mis-matched Bulletproof in blue on it
- The grip panels are dried and worn, and the medallions have lost some plating
- The finish though intact looks dull, thin, and lacking uniformity through use
- The value of Combat Commanders is far below its aluminum counterparts


As a result of this, I have decided to make lemonade out of this... well, I hesitate to call it a lemon by any stretch. I picked the weapon up for $575 shipped and without the papers, box and pristine finish I realize that I can only add to the value of this pistol (IF DONE RIGHT)

I plan on saving some money over the next year or so (if possible) and then I will turn it loose to a nationally renowned smith who can work with my motif at a fair price. Then the weapon will make a great heirloom made for honest use. One of the greatest assets of the Combat Commander is that you aren't afraid to put some mileage on it. I would hate to buy an aluminum Commander for $850-$1,250, add anywhere from $1,200-$2,500 in custom work, and then become terrified to put some rounds through it for fear of running down the 20K odometer people tend to set on aluminum frames.


On one hand, you have already compromised the weapon with the adulteration of sights, and the pitting isn't doing you many favors either. You have a sub $700 from my POV, (heck a sub $600) and the condition plus adulterations means it isn't going to go far above that mark unless there is a sudden explosion of demand for Pre-80 commanders in any shape.

My best advice is to follow in my footsteps. Send the weapon in to a renowned smith and add some simple pragmatic touches with a new finish. Now your adulterated, compromised Pre-80 becomes a double asset: a pre-80 platform with the added value of the artisan's touch.

I am not a comp shooter and I don't know the market that well, but my advice is to ditch the comp idea right off. Unless (again) you send it off to a legendary smith, making it a nostalgic piece of shooter history, the value of that gun is going to be severely stunted in the future. I am just thinking of the fad mods that destroyed the integrity of yesteryear's race pistols (like drill marks in the frame).

[jeff1124]

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g207/jeff1124/Colt%201911/nickel3.jpg
Same story here, I bought this one for 500 and spent a lot of time cleaning tarnish off of the nickel but the bottom line is it's still not "pretty". I have been giving thought to having it chrome plated only I can't decide between a brushed finish or a bright finish. A lot of people here would say to keep it original, but it's your gun so you get to decide, ultimately! :D

[Hawkmoon]

Being a fan of Colt Commanders, I would not modify the slide. But you could fit up a Government slide and barrel, with whatever sights you prefer, and shoot that in competition while keeping the original slide and barrel unmodified, so the pistol could be returned to original, unmodified configuration at any time.

[shake in the black]

Being a fan of Colt Commanders, I would not modify the slide. But you could fit up a Government slide and barrel, with whatever sights you prefer, and shoot that in competition while keeping the original slide and barrel unmodified, so the pistol could be returned to original, unmodified configuration at any time.
The dust cover is about 1/4" shorter than a full size 1911, will a full size slide fit properly?

[Hawkmoon]

The dust cover is about 1/4" shorter than a full size 1911, will a full size slide fit properly?
Oh, rats. I forgot about that. It isn't a quarter inch shorter, but it is shorter, you are correct. A Colt slide will almost certainly leave a gap of about 1/16" to 1/8". Some aftermarket slides might have enough material to close the gap. I recently put an Armscor .38 Super slide on a Commander frame and the slide tunnel is long enough to meet the dust cover ... although I don't think there's any overlap.

[larry starling]

I would leave them as they are....Why ruin/modify a perfectly good Colt. And especially one that's OOP and lets face it Colt will never make Nickel Commanders again...... :scared:

[shake in the black]

I would leave them as they are....Why ruin/modify a perfectly good Colt. And especially one that's OOP and lets face it Colt will never make Nickel Commanders again...... :scared:

Well it's not a perfectly good Colt. It is inaccurate, finish is pitted and it's not fun to shoot. I would reckon that if satin nickle Commanders were in demand Colt would produce them now.

My choices are to turn this into a fun to shoot Commander or, have my children wonder what to do with it when I go to the happy 1911 forum in the sky. They will inherit many fun to shoot accurate firearms then. Maybe this can be delegated to the "Just for looking at Colt"

My investment is $125, I don't mind tossing a few bucks in to it. I don't know what I was thinking back then but I don't like the nickle. If I could, I would have the nickle stripped a have it refinished in the Armoly<sp> finish like my new Springfield.

I appreciate all the input though, keep the ideas coming.

[Hawkmoon]

Sell it to a Colt collector or aficionado and use the proceeds to buy an RIA for your competition gun. Keep the Colt original.

[dakota1911]

Take it apart, clean it, put it together. Shoot a couple hundred more rounds through it, hopefully in one range session, and then see what you think.

[elijdub]

It seems like you're more inclined to "put some creativity into it" (i'd be inclined to do that myself). I think you should do whatever makes you the most happy, otherwise you'll always regret your decision. That gun would make a great "base" for custom work, IMO...BTGS, front-strap work-of-your-choice, and some FINISH work for sure! Since it's pitted out and needs to re-finished anyway, what's the harm in switching out the GS (you could even use a WC "drop-in"...not permanent). Personally that's what i would do.
But Hawkmoon does make a good point about selling it to a collector and buying a "shooter", too.
I say, if you're going to keep it, get the work done!!!

[EchoBravoKilo]

I have one too. Unadulterated, but well used.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p258/EchoBravoKilo/1976%20Combat%20Commander/IMGP0687.jpg

After thinking along the same lines as you, I've decided to send mine out. I don't believe there's that much collector value (there are a whole bunch for sale on line - including two unfired), and I'd rather get it worked on, set up the way I want and enjoy it. My kids will like it either way (of course I hope it will be some time before I pass it on!).

I'm going to send to a well regarded smith and have it set up as a good shooter.

You should do what you think is best, but I agree with tweaking. Good luck!

[azreloader]

- The weapon is not pleasurable to shoot given the bite the commander tang puts into the web of the hand.
Quickest , and cheapest, way to solve the "tang pinch" syndrome, is to get a shooting glove. I got one of those with the top half of the fingers exposed......problem solved. I wasn't about to let such a simple issue keep me from shooting it and the glove actually improves the grip and helps with recoil control from the shorter length barrel. I keep it in my range bag.

[pulpsmack]

When I start taking a '59' Commander to the range I will be sure to accommodate the tang with a glove.

Based on the value, and collectability this one will be altered to accommodate me, and not the reverse.

[shake in the black]

Based on the value, and collectability this one will be altered to accommodate me, and not the reverse.

Yanno, that makes sense to me. Now I am definitely leaning toward modification. I need to start shooting and enjoying this piece.

[paul45]

It is inaccurate, finish is pitted and it's not fun to shoot. I would reckon that if satin nickle Commanders were in demand Colt would produce them now. Apparently, you answered your own question. Besides, with non-original sights and stocks, with pitting on the finish, it is obviously shooter grade. Collectors, as you know, want pristine examples with original box and paperwork. I vote to modify to your hearts content.

[shake in the black]

Is there someone producing a match barrel for the commander? Is it worth it to replace the barrel with a match one if available, or just throat the existing barrel?

[elijdub]

Is there someone producing a match barrel for the commander? Is it worth it to replace the barrel with a match one if available, or just throat the existing barrel?
Novak puts Kart (match grade) barrels in their "custom commander". I don't know where to find one on it's own, but you might start with a call to Novak if you're going to go that route.
I think to answer your question, it would depend on the state of your current barrel, and what the needs of your gun are. If you really wanted to achieve supreme accuracy it might be worth it to upgrade to a match grade barrel set-up. For range use, etc., i wouldn't bother personally.
....And please correct me if i'm wrong, but i didn't think there was a correlation between throating a barrel and accuracy. I thought it was usually done if the gun was exhibiting FTF or FTRB issues.

[shake in the black]

No, I think you are correct. I wanted it throated to aid in the feeding, along with the other mods that add a little dependability. I am moving in the direction of using it for IDPA compact class. I will have to do a little research and see what is and isn't allowed. For IDPA I probably won't need a match barrel. This one is in good shape, maybe with a little work, fitting and a better fitting bushing it will be acceptable. I also have a set of Bo-Mar sights that can be fitted, though I will need a ramped front sight not the square cut one I have now. Guys have suggested the RoBar finish, or their NP3 but I do like the parkerized with the NP3 internals. I dunno, lots of options to think about.

[elijdub]

.....lots of options to think about.
That's the fun part!!!!!:D

I don't know anything about IDPA...a lot of people here do though.

[Joni Lynn]

Are you going to keep this gun, maybe keep it in the family or do you perhaps think it may get traded or sold at some point? If it may leave you, then keep it as near original as you can. If it's going to stay with you then I'd say, it's your gun, do with it as you wish.
While it's not a Commander I bought this series 70 Gov't for a low amount and never used it. I sent it off to Bob Rodgers and now it's not the same gun........it's almost a work of art.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Joni_Lynn/GovtSeries70-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Joni_Lynn/lgcolt2.jpg

[shake in the black]

Joni,

I will keep this pistol, I rarely get rid of a firearm, usually only if I think it's junk, and I can only think of three in the past 35 years, a 6.5 Italian Carcano that after it broke was given to a friend, he welded the bolt shut and gave it to his kids to play Army with. A Remington 7400 in .308, inaccurate, and heavy to lug around, it was replaced with a Ruger M77 MK II stainless in /06. And a junk universal .30 Carbine, such a pile of junk I was going to cut it up and throw it away, but a friend insisted on giving me $200 for it, he's happy, go figure. Someone here mentioned Novak, I went to their site and found a nice package for around $900, the Concealed Carry package. The only mods it did not include that I desire was lowering the ejector port and they will do that for an additional fee and fiber optic sights. During the process, refinishing the entire pistol is included. But I am still researching and listening to opinions.

[Joni Lynn]

The length of your slide also lends itself well to adding a small single port comp and still only being about Gov't length. If it was mine I'd probably go nuts and have someone do something to it that would be permanent. Novak does nice work as do some others. They are the home of the Novak sight, what better place to get them from!

[TattooPaul]

By far the best permanent solution is to turn them over to my possession! They will be properly cared for and you will be free to replace them as you see fit! Very nice Pony's there fellas. I believe you should ship them to me immediately and those issues will trouble you no more ( of course chances great are you'd never see them agaian! lol)!

Nice Colt's - I've got room in my safe that'd fit 'em perfect and plenty of ammo th warm 'em up with!

[elijdub]

Someone here mentioned Novak, I went to their site and found a nice package for around $900, the Concealed Carry package. The only mods it did not include that I desire was lowering the ejector port and they will do that for an additional fee and fiber optic sights. During the process, refinishing the entire pistol is included. But I am still researching and listening to opinions.
I had suggested you start with Novak if you were thinking about a match grade barrel (giving 'em a call). I know they offer a Commander-length Kart in their package, while i do not know of another source of that length Kart. There are other NM barrel's for Commanders too.
Novak's does do really good work! Personally i prefer what the Colt Custom Shop does, or Yost-Bonitz (my favorite). If you haven't done so already it's worth taking a look at them. www.yost-bonitz.com They do some AWESOME work to COLT's!!!!

[shake in the black]

I had suggested you start with Novak if you were thinking about a match grade barrel (giving 'em a call). I know they offer a Commander-length Kart in their package, while i do not know of another source of that length Kart. There are other NM barrel's for Commanders too.
Novak's does do really good work! Personally i prefer what the Colt Custom Shop does, or Yost-Bonitz (my favorite). If you haven't done so already it's worth taking a look at them. www.yost-bonitz.com They do some AWESOME work to COLT's!!!!

Received a response from Novak to my email inquiry about the Concealed Carry package with added fiber optic sights and the injector port lowered. It was like they responded to a question asking about rebuilding a Allison transmission. Not much info at all, almost as though they were uninterested. Think I'll just have my Bullseye gun builder take a look at it. I may have to send it out to be refinished though.

[Threeman]

Bar-Sto semi drop in for 9mm Commander.
I had to fit the hood and even had to touch the barrel lugs.
This made me a happy man.

Of course I pulled a couple. Range was at 15 yards first then 20 yards.

http://xs318.xs.to/xs318/07326/Commander9mm3.JPG (http://xs.to)
http://xs318.xs.to/xs318/07326/Commander9mm.JPG (http://xs.to)

[shake in the black]

After discussing my intentions with my Smith, he pointed out that what I want to do would end up costing about $100 less than a new Springer champion. He may be right. So I think I will go slowly and do these mods first, remember I just want to make this pistol more fun to shoot, not create a masterpiece


Mods as follow:

SMITH & ALEXANDER
Series 70, Palmswell Hi-Grip Safety, S/S

MGW
MGW 1911 Auto Fixed Sight Combos, IRS/WD/NT
My Smith will drill and install fiber optics in these sights.

Light weight long trigger and trigger job

Lower and flair the ejection port

Bevel the mag well

In general, inspect and adjust what ever need adjusting.

I will leave the slide and barrel alone for now.

I'll shoot it , see how I like it and if it's OK we will completely disassemble clean and apply Brownell's Teflon/Moly oven cure finish.


What do you think?

[pulpsmack]

That certainly is one way of looking at things: when you do those adds and tweaks, yes you may be within $100 of having two guns. Another way of looking at it is you now have two guns that don't fit you right or do exactly what you want. A well-tuned Colt fixed your way is worth more than 2 guns that leave you with a feeling of unfulfillment, IMO.

[shake in the black]

Agree, I just want to shoot and enjoy the dog gone thing. If I buy another pistol, this one is still gonna be there needing my attention. My out lay for this project is around $300. Lets see how it develops.

[elijdub]

I think that sounds like a great plan SiTB!

[daveohno]

shake in the black, I think you're right. If you don't do the work slowly, now, you'll still want to do it later.

[shake in the black]

OK, a little update on my project. All the mods for now are done. All that remains is for me to apply the Teflon/Moly oven cure finish. My plan ids to attempt that tomorrow. I wonder what our baked Salmon is going to taste like at dinner tomorrow evening?

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00327.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00328.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00329.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00330.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00331.jpg

[elijdub]

It looks great! Don't see any rust or pitting.... I see you added a BTGS..appears to be fitted, NOT drop-in..NICE! Who did the work? What are the modifications and their makers?

[shake in the black]

The mods are Mods as follow:

SMITH & ALEXANDER Series 70, Palmswell Hi-Grip Safety, S/S, fitted as you have noticed, MGW 1911 Auto Fixed Sight Combos, My Smith drilled and install fiber optics in these sights, you can see the opening in the front sight. Light weight Wilson long trigger and trigger job #4 no creep. Lower and flair the ejection port and open the mag well. Today I will clean all the parts and apply the Moly oven cure finish, Then my wife will kill me for ruining the oven, but what the heck its for a good cause.

The work was performed by a local smith that mainly works on 1911's, he does most of the bullseye comp guns around here and everyone including me has had only wonderful results with his work.

PM me if you would like to contact him.

[shake in the black]

Well, here it is with all the mods I intend to make right now. I hope to put a few rounds through it Sunday.

Original:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00214.jpg
Modified:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00349.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00354.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00355.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00356.jpg http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/rrendina/other/DSC00352.jpg

[daveohno]

It's always great to get 'er up and running! Let us know how she behaves at the range!

[elijdub]

Looks great! I like how it ended up. +1 on the range report...