Just bought new 70 series....not happy

[ramairgto]

Just picked up my new 70 series government model. Had to have it ordered as I couldn't find one anywhere. When I first seen it, I was impressed, a very nice looking firearm. However when I got home and took a real close look at it there is a spot on the bottom of the slide rail, on the right side, where it appears it was cut too deep, leaving a slight dip on the bottom so it is not perfectly even across the bottom of the slide (not sure if I worded that correctly) It isn't very noticeable at first but the more I look at it the more it sticks out. I can't believe this wasn't seen at the factory. I thought these 70 series are Custom Shop guns, how could a 1911 "master" craftsmen not notice this. Needless to say I am very dissapointed. I was initially considering a Springfield 1911 but I choose Colt as they are made in USA. I figured quality and craftmenship would be better. For the 900 bucks I paid, I expect a pristine example of a 1911. I know that Colt will fix it for free but now I have to deal with shipping it and waiting for it to be fixed. I think I will give another manufacturer my business next time. (I would post pics but I cannot find my camera) :(

[RickB]

The problem definitely should have been caught before it was shipped. The truth is, if Colt shipped 100 guns just like it, yours might be the only one that's returned. I'd think they would go broke paying FedEx charges on returned pistols, if that weren't the case.

[Soonenough]

Well, you have my sympathy. I found myself in similar circumstances. I special ordered the gun, waited a few months, and when it came in the recoil tunnel was waaay off center and the slide reliefs were lopsided. It also had some pretty rough handling scratches on the polished slide flats. I contacted Mark Roberts who truly tired to help. He sent me a call tag and I Fed Ex'd it back to them. Several weeks later it was returned with a new slide and guess what? The new slide has different problems, along with the relief cuts still being lopsided, the center curve of the top of the slide is off to the the left.
I contacted Mark again, and he had a few slides set aside from their last production run and sent me another call tag. I returned the gun and Mark contacted me and told me they didn't see the off center top curve, that the slides he had set aside all exhibited the lopsided relief cuts, and my (minor) complaint of the slide lock lever depressing below the detent was exhibited by all the guns he checked on their range. He did offer to have the slide refinished and recut however.
Add to that all the communications snarls and I just gave up and had them return the gun. Believe me when I tell you one does not need a practiced eye to see what's wrong with the slide. I felt they couldn't produce it correctly the first time, they sent it out wrong the second time, and then couldn't see the problems my kids can see, I give up.
Mark was very nice throughout the whole thing, (so was I), but nice isn't fixing it. I'd sell this gun in a heart beat, but anyone who looks at it goes, "Huh, what's up with the slide?" Sometimes I wonder why they even get out of bed at Colt. No more new ones for me. I'll stick with the older ones.

[elijdub]

That is a shame that you didn't have the best experience with Colt, and not to minimalize it, but problems like yours seem to be the exception, and not the rule. 99.9% of people i know who own Colt's wouldn't dream of owning anything else. Their quality is top of the line...the really know their product and make it really well.
It's tough for a company that produces thousands and thousands of guns to not have a minor issue here and there. I know it's a hassle, but by dealing with the warranty you'll be treated well for sure. Hopefully in the end they'll remove the sour taste in your mouth, and you'll stick with 'em. IMHO, you'll find that they have a better quality control system than ANYONE else.
Good Luck!

[Hunter]

In my mind if you are not happy with Colt then you should buy elsewhere. With that said all companies will have the bad apple from time to time.
I speak with Mark Roberts about once a week and he has helped me through several questions and articles.
I agree that he is a patient man and I am sorry you could not get your problems resolved. Any way to post pictures of the two problem pistols?
What is your asking price for the Series 70 with the problem slide?

[Soonenough]

Mark is extremely patient and candid about the "rough spots" at the factory. I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but it is vexing to me that the custom shop guns are sometimes less precise than production guns. I saw a very nice lew horton that was flawless, my WW1 is a work of art, so they do know how to make a slide.
I have no accounts to post photos, but give me a pm and I'll send you some to peruse, and we could discuss prices.

[pulpsmack]

I bought a WWI repro with enough garbage on it to make yours like a finely finished custom... sight unseen.

I think it is inexcusable that ANYTHING leaves the custom shop in any condition less than top-notch. It either speaks volumes about their smiths/QC staff, or it amounts to nothing more than a production gun with unethical advertising. I have personally seen and have read too many of these accounts for the matter to be acceptable.

I sent mine back and Colt did the right the second time by replacing the pistol all together. Unfortunately all production companies have issues seperating the wheat from the chaff, but it's dismaying to say the least when this issue spills over into a custom shop product line, and the more these incidents occur, the more everbody loses.

I just made a Colt Custom Shop pistol purchase this week and am awaiting shipment right now. I am optimistic that I will get a well built one with acceptable fit and finish, but If I do not, it will be going right back to Colt on their dime. I would rather have the pistol done right the first time but if that fails, I will be one of those "1 in 99" that puts Colt through the inconvenience of repait/replacement and shipping.

RickB has a point, one that I call the "liability losses game", where production companies hedge their bets in QC over nickel dime issues knowing the customer won't raise a fuss and spend $40 shipping over a $30 slide stop they can replace immediately. I find it an objectionable practice but I half-sympathize with the customer for wanting to take matters into his own hands under the circumstances. But when the shipping is reimbursed, there is no excuse not to take advantage of the service.

[dakota1911]

I generally buy "off the rack", so I look before I buy. Over the years I have had a couple problems with Colts, and Colt was great making them O.K. I have had more problems with Kimber, Glock, etc., yet all those companies have folks who want to make you happy. Don't give up on one call. Call them back and you may get another person, or catch them when they are not as busy as when you made your first call.

[pulpsmack]

Buying off the rack is a sound policy. This case can be a little different however, given the status as a "custom shop item". I live in the gun-loving south with no less than 5 well-stocked gun stores within a 20 mile radius of my home. Only one of that five stocks Colt Custom shop weapons, so I can only imagine the plight of others in less populated or less gun-friendly areas. Moreover, that one outfit does not stock ALL the custom shop weapons, the price is not as good as me doing my homework and ordering online, and you can be sure the finish has a good 2%-4% wear from all the grubby paws rubbing the finish off with a few months of tire kicking.

[SliderG]

I had a similar experience: purchased a new model O1970A1CS sight unseen, as they simply aren't available locally here in central Arkansas. When the gun arrived at my gunsmith's shop, the thumb safety didn't work - turns out the plunger tube was full of bluing salts! He cleaned it out and got the thumb safety working in just a few minutes, so I wasn't too downhearted. Then on my first trip to the range I found out that one of the two magazines supplied with the gun doesn't lock the slide back after firing the last round. And the grip screws work loose after 25 rounds or so...

I find it hard to believe that a master gunsmith at Colt's custom shop has ever examined this weapon.

These problems are all 'fixable' and I'll be keeping the gun. I've ordered some Wilson Combat magazines and will be customizing the weapon with Bomar sights, beavertail grip safety, new hammer, trigger and sear, etc. And I'll probably round up some hex-head grip screws.

Still, it would have been nice if the quality of Colt's product had been closer to what I'd been led to expect.

[larry starling]

I'm sorry your experience wasn't a good one. But my experiences have been different than yours. I haven't had any issues with any of my Colt's. I do for one understand that every manufacturer lets a lemon get through the QC process. But I'm confident that if you allow Colt the chance to fix the problem they will.
;)

[JustinTime]

I think your being hasty. It isn't about does a company put out perfect products every time (because that is impossible). It is about what a particular company is willing to do to rectify a problem. A picture would be really helpful. Look at it this way Colt has people working for them and people make mistakes. I don't know what you do for a living sir but I'd put money on the fact you've made a mistake or two in your career. I don't know what product or service you and your company provide but I bet your mistake cost a customer some money somewhere along the line. How would you like it if your customers took they're dollars elsewhere for your mistake even if you had a policy of correcting issues to make it right by them.

One last thing, You know if you ask Colt they will reimburse you for the shipping of your firearm so you see you won't be out anymore money than you already are.

I've seen Colts that aren't perfect. Heck I've even owned them. But they're still better than the springers I have experience with. Springfield uses two piece barrels.

[dakota1911]

Sort of like once you have owned and shot all the 1911s you find yourself preferentially drawn to Colts.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The simple answer is to never buy a pistol before you look at it. I don't care who made the pistol, or what their reputation. There is no such thing as an outfit that is "perfect".

I make it a point to look at the pistol, and then walk away. I come back again for a second look. Sometimes I miss a good deal that way, but generally I catch more "issues".

I realize you can't always do things this way. I buy stuff through the mail all the time. I don't depend on the condition being "perfect" on those guns though.

One good thing - if you have a significant issue with a Colt, they *will* fix it. That's a lot more than I can say for some other outfits.

Bob

[Soonenough]

"How would you like it if your customers took they're dollars elsewhere for your mistake even if you had a policy of correcting issues to make it right by them. "

Once upon a time there was this guy who ordered slate gray siding for his house. When he came home he found his house covered in red siding. So he contacted the company, and made them aware of the mistake. The next day he comes home from work and his house is now covered in green siding, along with a note, "Dear sir, changed the color of your house as per your request, sorry for the error."

We are talking about slide relief cuts, twice. From the longest lived maker of 1911's extant. Kinda like getting the color right, eh?

As for pics, well, I'm late in sending some off to Hunter. Mostly because the front sight fell off after less than 300 rounds. I hope to pick up the repaired slide today. Once he gets them, he may choose to post them or not.

[automan]

Well, you have my sympathy. I found myself in similar circumstances. I special ordered the gun, waited a few months, and when it came in the recoil tunnel was waaay off center and the slide reliefs were lopsided. It also had some pretty rough handling scratches on the polished slide flats. I contacted Mark Roberts who truly tired to help. He sent me a call tag and I Fed Ex'd it back to them. Several weeks later it was returned with a new slide and guess what? The new slide has different problems, along with the relief cuts still being lopsided, the center curve of the top of the slide is off to the the left.
I contacted Mark again, and he had a few slides set aside from their last production run and sent me another call tag. I returned the gun and Mark contacted me and told me they didn't see the off center top curve, that the slides he had set aside all exhibited the lopsided relief cuts, and my (minor) complaint of the slide lock lever depressing below the detent was exhibited by all the guns he checked on their range. He did offer to have the slide refinished and recut however.

Add to that all the communications snarls and I just gave up and had them return the gun. Believe me when I tell you one does not need a practiced eye to see what's wrong with the slide. I felt they couldn't produce it correctly the first time, they sent it out wrong the second time, and then couldn't see the problems my kids can see, I give up.
Mark was very nice throughout the whole thing, (so was I), but nice isn't fixing it. I'd sell this gun in a heart beat, but anyone who looks at it goes, "Huh, what's up with the slide?" Sometimes I wonder why they even get out of bed at Colt. No more new ones for me. I'll stick with the older ones.


I've been told that the second generation series 70s are much better that the older, first generation series 70s. If I'm going to buy, then buy the newer ones.

[Soonenough]

I believe mine was made in March/April of this year. Is there another generation after this?

[JustinTime]

I believe mine was made in March/April of this year. Is there another generation after this?

Nope you have the newer genteration.

[pa_guns]

Hi

We have a *lot* of manufacturers represented on this forum. There is not a single one of them that never, ever makes a mistake. If that is your expectation, then you will be very disappointed, no matter who you buy from. That includes people selling pistols for two and three times the price of a new Colt.

The only thing that seems to differentiate the manufacturers is weather they simply tell you it's your problem and walk away from the issue. There certainly are a number of them out there.

Bob

[AJD]

Deleted***

[pa_guns]

Hi

Last time I checked the gun locker it had more 1911's from "other" manufacturers in it than I did from Colt.

None of the six new Colts that I have bought in the last two years have anything that I would call a "problem" with them. The same goes for the S&W's, Springfields, RIA's, and Rock River (only one of those). The Systema's have issues, but that's why they were sub $260 each.

I probably looked at three to five pistols for every one I bought. I do not remember any of the Colts having noticeable problems with them. The only pistols that seemed to have issues were from brands not listed above.

If I take *any* of those pistols into the lab and fire up a good microscope, I will find odd things. That's the nature of machined parts. Pistols are made by toolmakers to be used as tools. They are not made by jewelers ..

Bob

[AJD]

Deleted***

[Hunter]

I suggest you leave Colts alone. It seems there is a reason to. Out of all the folks I know (including myself) there is not a big problem with Colt and far less then most manufacturers.
I still may have a buyer for the Series 70 but I did not get a PM with the pictures (I know you are not the one with the Repo)

[AJD]

I suggest you leave Colts alone. It seems there is a reason to. Out of all the folks I know (including myself) there is not a big problem with Colt and far less then most manufacturers.
I still may have a buyer for the Series 70 but I did not get a PM with the pictures (I know you are not the one with the Repo)

And I never said their was a big problem with Colt. Its ok, I'll promise not to talk about anything remotely negative dealing with Colt for now on regardless of my experience. Then we won't have to worry about anything. *Taken care of*

[Hunter]

It does not bother me at all to here negative comments about Colt as I know they are not perfect. I was merely suggestion that if you are having that much trouble with them you may want to look elsewhere.

[ramairgto]

I tried to get pictures of the problem area but my camera is a little older and could not get a close enough shot. I talked to Colt and they said it would be fine if I shot it. So I put about 150 rounds through it with only one malfunction when the casing failed to clear the slide in time and was wedged between the slide and barrel. Left a little mark on top of the slide, but besides that I was happy with how it shot. Thing was a tackdriver and the trigger felt pretty good for a factory gun. Should I mention the jam when I send it back? I hope I don't have the same experience as soonenough, that is ridiculous you had to send it in twice and they still didn't fix it. Hunter, I don't think I will sell it quite yet. I want to give Colt a chance to fix the problem. I really like the gun besides the defect and I would like to keep it for a long time which is why I would like it to be perfect. I pulled out my old army 1911 made in 1917 and the thing is flawless besides the bluing being worn down but what do you expect from a 90 year old gun.

[Mick_In_Texas]

I can imagine putting out hard-earned money (I don't have much of it to spare) on a gun that was mis-machined, mis-matched, poorly fitted, poorly finished. That is flat out the worst experience a person can have.

I have three new Colt's and one USGI from 1918. In my life, I have been extremely lucky with the guns I've bought: All three of my Colt's, my O1911 WWI Repro (and I've heard of probs with some, and these are a custom-shop pistol), my Super 38 Govt, and my O1991, are flawless. So have been my two Rugers--P90 and GP100--my Taurus PT92AF, my Mossberg shotguns, only one of which I still have, the 500 Enforcer. Two Berettas in the past, Italian-made, 84B and 92F; and a Smith revolver, 686 with 6" barrel. AMT .380 backup for an ex-wife. I've seen when Smith semiautos were SO SORRY... just wouldn't function; have seen a Walther's Luger that was terrible, a WWII model military. I have two Springers which are EXCELLENT, Brazilian-made, and they do NOT have "two-piece" barrels, they're both wonderful guns, a Mil-Spec and a GI45. Two Rock Island Armory 1911A1s, also EXCELLENT.

I did have to send my RIA back to Armscor for a problem, minor. I was somewhat disappointed, but, the prob didn't affect its function or reliability: my shooting, has been 100% before and after. It's my secondary carry gun, behind my Springer Mil-Spec. I DO love my Colt's, though, although I wonder about the POA of my 1991: but, I really haven't given it a chance. It functions perfectly, no doubt, and that from experience on the firing line.

I just bought a Norinco SKS rifle, used, with a Norinco scope. My dad had one, and it was built like a tank, and shot like a dream. I may not luck out on this one... but, point is, if it's a dud, I may trade my FFL for a Russian SKS. I want an M4 Armalite Birdcage. I've heard some folks have probs with Armalites. I don't think I would, 'cause I'm not going to run 10000 rounds through it.

No manufacturer--and I mention Kimber, Ed Brown, and Wilson Combat as examples of real high-end guns, 1911s--can be 100% perfect. It would be nice. It's just not possible. I wouldn't get down on Colt's if they fix the prob... I was REAL disappointed at first in my Rock; on the other hand, Armscor fixed the prob, and it has been a WONDERFUL defensive pistol that I trust on my hip. In the instance, an individual lemon just... kills you. For law-abiding citizens, a gun is a tool, and one you may stake yours and your family's life on. They cost money. Sometimes, a lot. Sacrifice. BUT: if you get a lemon, and the mfgr makes it right, and it works when you get the replacement or the repair... maybe that counts for a lot. Just a thought.

Mick

[ramairgto]

Well I finally got a few decent shots of the problem area after messing the camera settings for a bit. Whatcha think? Also got a couple pics of the 1917 army 1911.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jakobknutsen/70ser3.jpg


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jakobknutsen/70ser1.jpg


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jakobknutsen/70ser2.jpg


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jakobknutsen/twins1.jpg


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z3/jakobknutsen/1911.jpg

[pa_guns]

Hi

If you buy a pistol that has a problem - send it off and get it fixed. With most manufacturers that takes about three or four trips. Like it or not that's "world class" in the firearms industry. There are *plenty* of threads here in the various forums to doccument that.

Bob

[clughog]

Sure like the old Colt! But I believe I'd send the Series 70 slide back to Colt for a new one...looks like someone took a nibble out of it!

[daveohno]

AJD, Hunter was suggesting that if you are unhappy with your experiences with Colt, maybe Kimber, Springfield, Rock Island or any of the custom makers might be something to go with. Like the auto industry, we have many choices. I'm not slighting any of the other manufacturers by leaving their names out, there are just so many you can buy from.

[pulpsmack]

I will keep it short and sweet because I will be authoring at least one thread on the topic when I have time later this week. I just picked up my new S70 from my FFL this evening, and let me assure you, no matter how dissatisfied you "think" you are with respect to your purchase, you wouldn't dream of trading places with me. :mad:

[OD*]

I will keep it short and sweet because I will be authoring at least one thread on the topic when I have time later this week. I just picked up my new S70 from my FFL this evening, and let me assure you, no matter how dissatisfied you "think" you are with respect to your purchase, you wouldn't dream of trading places with me. :mad:
Be sure to take plenty of pictures.

[pulpsmack]

Sir, I plan on indulging you and our fellow viewers to the best of my and my poor equipment's ability, but I am confident you all are in for quite an eyeful.

[OD*]

Looking forward to it.

[Hunter]

Looking forward to it.
...myself...

[JustinTime]

Looking forward to it.

I am as well. It would be nice to see some proof for a change. No photoshop though. :nono:

[automan]

Ramairgto,

My $.02 worth. I'd say you have a Colt that wasn't machined to specs. Both the slide and frame look poorly cut. I don't think much can be done to fix the problem short of a new pistol.

[OD*]

I don't see where the receiver is bad?

[JustinTime]

I just looked at the photos...the slide definately has problems. I'm with OD*, I don't see where the reciever is bad either. I would send the whole pistol back to Colt and email customer service the photos. Simply tell them you do not want the pistol back until it is fixed. It is that easy. You'll have your pistol back in about one month and it will be perfect (well as it can be).

[pa_guns]

I just picked up my new S70 from my FFL this evening, and let me assure you, no matter how dissatisfied you "think" you are with respect to your purchase.......

Hi

Who did you buy the pistol from?

Was it an internet auction?

Is it new?

Why not send it back to the person you bought it from?

I have a theory that "problem" pistols get auctioned off.....

If it's new, I would not waste any more time with it. Send it back to Colt and have them fix it.

Bob

[JustinTime]

I have a theory that "problem" pistols get auctioned off.....

I don't know about that theory Bob. I mean, I'm sure it does happen but not like a rule of thumb or anything. Thus far I've bought a majority of my stuff from the auctions sites new and used and have not had a single problem with any of them.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Well I finally got a few decent shots of the problem area after messing the camera settings for a bit. Whatcha think? Also got a couple pics of the 1917 army 1911.[/IMG]

Agree with pa, OD*, Hunter, Justin, several others: that Series 70, definitely problems. If it is NEW, Colt's will take care of it (likely replace it completely, and I've heard from an occasional prob with the WWI Repro the return gun is about as close to mechanical perfection as you can get, they make it right, if not "healing" your frustration and initial disappointment).

MOST--not all--guns sold at GunBroker, say, have a three-day examination period. As pa or OD said, that's a possible: return it as unsatisfactory.

MAN... that 1917 USGI... is in GREAT shape!!! It's roughly a year older than First Lady, my 1918 production... CONGRATULATIONS on THAT Colt's!!!!! Beautiful... share that in the USGI forum, sir, the collectors would LOVE to see it!!!

Good luck with your more modern one, though. I've heard many, many good things about Colt in this unfortuate situation...

Mick

[pa_guns]

Hi

I am by no means saying that all the auction guns are "problems".

I do believe that some dealers and distributors would rather auction a problem than try to sell it over the counter or return it. Why that's true I can only guess.

I avoid auctions that do not have either very good pictures or a three day return. I also will confess to having gone the "pick up and pay" route ....

Bob

[Mick_In_Texas]

Hi

I am by no means saying that all the auction guns are "problems".

Bob

... and I got her for a BARGAIN, considering her authenticity and condition!!! Also, my Colt's Super 38 Govt Model... beautiful Colt's, NIB. BOTH my RIAs. Getting a Norinco SKS w/scope, too. My local new dealer doesn't like my credit, that's their prob, with the rest of my 1911s from a dealer in Virginia, NIB. Thank my power that I've got a GREAT FFL here... BUT...

As you say: very good unaltered looking photos, and the return option after examination. Usually they won't let you FIRE it, but, ramairgto's 70 has no need of firing to see it is definitely "not to specification" or Colt's usual high standards.

Mick

[pulpsmack]

pa_guns... this was bought NIB from Bud's Guns. I bear Buds no ill will for the nasty pistol. They have an inventory and they snatch it sight unseen off a shelf. Why not refuse it on the spot? a few reasons. First, I already paid shipping, and I am now out that charge. Second, I like to keep these transactions very hassle free with my FFL, so that there are no second thoughts concerning the service or price. Finally, I did not see all the problems immediately, and ASSUMING one is still on board to own a S70 after all this, you are more likely to get what you want sending the lemon back to Colt demanding satisfaction than you are sending it back to Buds and asking for another roll of the dice.

So as to avoid further hijack of the OP's horrible ordeal (and deliver my promise last night) I have posted my own unsatisfactory transaction Here: link removed (sorry, guys. Things got off on the wrong foot on the thread for certain reasons and I felt the need to pull it. Maybe another time in the future.)

[pa_guns]

Hi

I don't think I have ever seen a brand new Colt series 70 with a lanyard loop on the mainspring housing.

Bob

[mo' guns]

pulpsmack,

That link doesn't work.

[pulpsmack]

Sorry, Mo. See my edit.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Sorry the other thread got mucked up. The pictures in it showed what you are talking about pretty well.

Bob

[TattooPaul]

Anyone with issues (and pics to show these) that accompany their 70 Series Repros feel free to PM me. It's high on my "must have" list and, if there are no major exterior blems, get me pics of the machining and performance issues that you are not satisfied with and I will make you a respectable offer. I have to go thru an FFL but will eat that cost on my end for an acceptable specimen. :D

[automan]

I don't see where the receiver is bad?

Looking at the first three photos, looks to me like the cutting is rough and not smooth on both slide and the edge of frame beneath the slide.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I often ask dealers "where did this come from?" when something unusual shows up. In some cases the answer is that it came straight from the factory through their normal distributor. In other cases the answer is more like "the boss got a deal". A little talk with the boss often turns up a buy out of another dealers stock or something like that.

I have watched a lot of really awful stuff get done to pistols at dealers counters. Some counter guys just don't seem to care at all. There are a few places I simply will not buy a "counter gun" for that reason. Once the dealers start swapping inventory that whole idea doesn't work very well ....

Unless you really know the history of a pistol it can be hard to tell what went wrong and where. Nobody at a dealer or distributor is going to "forget" to make a cut that should be there, or drill a hole off center. They can and do muck up finishes and put a lot of scratches on pistols though.

Each time these "damaged" pistols come up, I would love to know more about their history ...

Bob

[texagun]

I think the photos of the 70 Series Repro speak for themselves. I would not accept that gun, but many others apparently would. That's why Colt sends them out to the dealer's shelves in that condition. Probably only 1 out of 3 or 4 would even notice that obvious defect, and most of those wouldn't go to the trouble of returning the gun. My thought is, if you are spending $800-$900 (or more) on a new gun from the "Custom Shop", it better be pretty close to perfect. I think the Colt "Custom Shop" is just a marketing ploy. If those guys are "Master Pistolsmiths", I wouldn't want them messing with my guns. I agree wholeheartedly with those who say they will only buy a gun face-to-face. I want to see it and handle it for myself before I will lay my money down. And I still prefer the older Colts...I haven't bought a new one in several years but I see them every month at the local shows.

[Hunter]

I think the Colt "Custom Shop" is just a marketing ploy. If those guys are "Master Pistolsmiths", I wouldn't want them messing with my guns..
You would be mistaken. I have seen the Custom Shop with my own eyes and make no mistake there are master pistolsmiths working there.
You need to understand we are all humans and humans make mistakes. The fact Colt will make it right gives no room for argument.
It is a wonder to me when Colt makes a mistake it is a real issue but when it happens to others it is not as big of a deal.

[JustinTime]

You would be mistaken. I have seen the Custom Shop with my own eyes and make no mistake there are master pistolsmiths working there.
You need to understand we are all humans and humans make mistakes. The fact Colt will make it right gives no room for argument.
It is a wonder to me when Colt makes a mistake it is a real issue but when it happens to others it is not as big of a deal.

Get em Hunter. I've been told by people I revere and trust that have been on tour at Colt. After seeing Colt's production in process they told me that essentially every pistol Colt makes is basically a custom piece. Colt does not use computerized cnc equipment. They use well maintained but old bridgport mill that require much human influence to make every piece needed to build a pistol. That being said everyone is subject to make mistakes and I don't see how QA would be able to miss the defects with this pistol. However the pitting could've happened while sitting in the dealers warehouse. I have seen stainless pistols develop pitting while sitting in garages which is really the same enviroment. As for the off center guide rod hole...well that machinest is probably OLD :o

[larry starling]

I think the term "Custom Shop" should be used loosely on the Series 70 Reproduction. My on opinion is that Colt labels the guns as such to get around the Lawyer types, As the S70 doesn't have the S80 firing pin safety. And it has the same warnings on the packaging as the WW1 and WW2 re pros.
As far as the complaining about Colt's quality control I'm sure they will fix the problem so why not just allow them to fix it and be done with it? From time to time every manufacturer lets a lemon through the door....... ;)

[texagun]

You would be mistaken. I have seen the Custom Shop with my own eyes and make no mistake there are master pistolsmiths working there.


There may be some master pistolsmiths working there but judging from many posts on this and several other 1911 forums they are turning out a lot of guns that shouldn't be released to the public. When they claim a gun comes from the "Custom Shop" it implies that the gun has been given some extra attention and the quality should be impeccible. My point was, I think they are misleading the public into thinking they are getting something special when they buy a gun from the "Custom Shop." I visited the Colt plant in the early '80's and was impressed with the old massive machinery still in use turning out these guns. I went back in the early 90's and they weren't letting anyone in the plant "for security reasons." I guess that must have changed in recent years.

[pa_guns]

Hi

There simply is *no* form of human based inspection that is 100% accurate. That's true no matter what you are inspecting. Depending on who you read and what they are inspecting, numbers run between 80% and 95%. Those numbers are for well trained inspectors under ideal conditions. Net result 1 in 5 to 1 in 20 defects get by the inspectors.

The numbers do not include simple mistakes. The inspector takes a break, somebody grabs the wrong pile of stuff, the wrong inspection form is at the workstation, and all the other odd stuff that happens in the real world. The numbers exclude those kind of things. They still happen, but they add to the numbers above, rather than being included in them.

With fully manual production, you may have a couple of percent with issues. If you catch 4 out of five, you still have a dozen each month going out the door.

What is true is that defective pistols get passed on, and good pistols get kept. A guy by the name of Gresham came up with that a few hundred years ago. The 990 good ones get taken home and kept. The dozen with issues get re-sold again and again.

When you buy a "new" pistol that's been out of production for a while the odds on getting a lemon go way up. If most people keep a pistol for at least 5 years then you are looking at a lot of years of lemons flying around.

The dealers I buy from get their stuff straight from Colt. I don't see anything even remotely close to the problems being described here on the pistols I buy. The problems certainly exist, and when you get a pistol with a problem you should get it fixed. To simply complain about it does no good at all. Since most people do get them fixed, the problems cost Colt money. If the defect rate was high, they would be out of business ....

Bob

[JustinTime]

And it has the same warnings on the packaging as the WW1 and WW2 re pros.

Larry, what warning is that? I don't think I've ever read it. Good thing they put the warning on there. Bawahaha. If you don't reply; I'll have to go home and search for it. My curiosity is running rampant.

[larry starling]

Larry, what warning is that? I don't think I've ever read it. Good thing they put the warning on there. Bawahaha. If you don't reply; I'll have to go home and search for it. My curiosity is running rampant.
On the white outer sleeve the ww2 says the following" This firearm is a wwII reproduction of the Colt M1911A1 pistol and does not contain a firing pin safety mechanism as found in our Series 80 models. If handled improperly or carelessly, this firearm could unintentionally discharge." WW1 repro says same thing except WW1 reproduction and Colt 1911.
My series 70 repro says same thing as above. :)

[JustinTime]

" This firearm is a wwII reproduction of the Colt M1911A1 pistol and does not contain a firing pin safety mechanism as found in our Series 80 models. If handled improperly or carelessly, this firearm could unintentionally discharge.

Hmmm...I never noticed that on my WWI repro. I bet the Gunsite said the same thing.

That warning is hilarious. Yeah, because your safe to carelessly handle a pistol as long as it is equipped with a firing pin block. :D

BTW, there was a hint of sarcasim in my last statement in case someone didn't pick up on it. Sheesh

[larry starling]

Hmmm...I never noticed that on my WWI repro. I bet the Gunsite said the same thing.

That warning is hilarious. Yeah, because your safe to carelessly handle a pistol as long as it is equipped with a firing pin block. :D

BTW, there was a hint of sarcasim in my last statement in case someone didn't pick up on it. Sheesh
I agree. I didn't look on my Gunsite. It doesn't come in a Custom shop box though. will have to look later?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/pix2018327671.jpg

[JustinTime]

I agree. I didn't look on my Gunsite. It doesn't come in a Custom shop box though. will have to look later?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/pix2018327671.jpg

Well, I don't have my paper sleeve anymore. It was torn up pretty bad and someone threw it out. :butthead: Anyway, I can't find a warning on the blue plastic box anywhere.

[larry starling]

Well, I don't have my paper sleeve anymore. It was torn up pretty bad and someone threw it out. :butthead: Anyway, I can't find a warning on the blue plastic box anywhere.
I'm sure the Lawyers had Colt put it in the manual some where..... :scared:

[cliff731]

I'll have to look to be exact, but the "warning" was prominently visible with the documantation provided with my Series 70 "reissue"... either a label applied to the manual, or a separate card included inside the shipping box.

[wetidlerjr]

I'm sure the Lawyers had Colt put it in the manual some where..... :scared:

And what else could they do with the liability issues being what they are these days ? the warning may be humorous to some but it is a serious matter that can impact the very existence of a company. A sad commentary on our times but everyone has to protect themselves. :(

[pa_guns]

Hi

The "warning" paperwork has been *very* visible on both of my WWI's. I agree that it's kind of silly when the pistol is a version that the military found to be perfectly fine to issue to millions of troops. Lawyers rule the world though .... :D :D :D

Bob

[JustinTime]

And what else could they do with the liability issues being what they are these days ? the warning may be humorous to some but it is a serious matter that can impact the very existence of a company. A sad commentary on our times but everyone has to protect themselves. :(

I agree with you.

[cameroni]

I agree. I didn't look on my Gunsite. It doesn't come in a Custom shop box though. will have to look later?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/pix2018327671.jpg

ooooooooooooh,Colt Gunsite. Never seen one in person. Still available new?(I think I know the answer).
You take nice pics,larry.(I have a new camera;but old brain;I take lousy pics).
I was hoping you might tell me where to see your Colt Gunsite pics?... drewl

Something about that Raven.

mike

[Ogie]

You would have to drop the Series 70 from over 10 feet, with the muzzle pointed straight down, in order for it to maybe go off. It's not very likely to happen.

[OD*]

ooooooooooooh,Colt Gunsite. Never seen one in person. Still available new?(I think I know the answer).
You take nice pics,larry.(I have a new camera;but old brain;I take lousy pics).
I was hoping you might tell me where to see your Colt Gunsite pics?... drewl

Something about that Raven.

mike
Gunsite still lists them, Mike.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb274/OD1911/colt20pistollg.jpg


http://www.gunsite.com/info/gunsmithy.html

[TattooPaul]

Just as an FYI here's two spots where they warn you about the lack of the 80 Series safety on the WWI Repro. One is the outermost white box and the other is a trigger tag. Gee, I feel safer all over again!


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o138/TattooPaulie/BoxWarn.jpg




http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o138/TattooPaulie/TriggerWarn.jpg

[larry starling]

ooooooooooooh,Colt Gunsite. Never seen one in person. Still available new?(I think I know the answer).
You take nice pics,larry.(I have a new camera;but old brain;I take lousy pics).
I was hoping you might tell me where to see your Colt Gunsite pics?... drewl

Something about that Raven.

mike
Here is a picture of my Gunsite....
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/pix2018327359.jpg

[cameroni]

Thanks,OD and larry!

Maybe someday.....

mike

[OD*]

You're welcome Mike.

Here's mine in blue;

http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/coltgsp.jpg

[pa_guns]

You would have to drop the Series 70 from over 10 feet, with the muzzle pointed straight down, in order for it to maybe go off. It's not very likely to happen.

Hi

Another way to look at it is that you *could* drop the series 70 from 3 to 4 feet and have it go off. That's what they did when they "found" the problem.

Bob

[larry starling]

Hi

Another way to look at it is that you *could* drop the series 70 from 3 to 4 feet and have it go off. That's what they did when they "found" the problem.

Bob
I'm sorry with the price of guns now days I ain't dropping a thing!!! :scared:

[pa_guns]

Hi

I certainly don't recommend spending a lot of time dropping perfectly good 1911's onto concrete floors ... :D :D

Bob

[Ogie]

Hi

Another way to look at it is that you *could* drop the series 70 from 3 to 4 feet and have it go off. That's what they did when they "found" the problem.

Bob

Really? I would like to see some more information on this. It seems highly unlikely that the Series 70 would discharge at three or four feet. I always thought the Series 80 was just to lawyer-proof Colt, not becuase of AD problems with the Series 70.

[OD*]

It seems highly unlikely that the Series 70 would discharge at three or four feet. H.P. White Laboratory, Inc. couldn't get it to happen either. ;)

[daveohno]

Here are mine.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/daveohno/976747612-1.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/daveohno/CCODSCN0381.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/daveohno/Picture.jpg

[pa_guns]

Really? I would like to see some more information on this. It seems highly unlikely that the Series 70 would discharge at three or four feet. I always thought the Series 80 was just to lawyer-proof Colt, not becuase of AD problems with the Series 70.

Hi

The magic formula seems to be a worn firing pin spring, a light primer, and just the right hit.

The shock pulse you get dropping something like a 1911 varies a *lot* depending on exactly how it hits. For the maximum you want it to hit and bounce directly back up rather than tipping over. That's *tough* to do. If you wanted to run the test you would have to do a lot of dropping.

Bob

[Tahoe829]

I'd like my third purchase too be a model 70 but with all the problems that i have read in this thread makes me reluctant too consider doing so. The "GUNSITE"model that i have seen pictures of indeed looks like a quality piece and iam curious does it come from the custom shop or does GUNSITE give colt permisson too use or endorse there name on this style pistol? Iam confused and uneducated about this model .... and would like too make a good choice and purchase whether it be a NIB 70 or a GUNSITE NIB model 70. Also, how do both pistol models stand up against one another performance wise? and what features do both have if you compare them too each other that warrants the higher price on the GUNSITE model. I Feel like a maniac , im already contemplating a third purchase lol.. the bug bites hard indeed!

[TattooPaul]

FWIW, problems with a 70 Series of any sort are something that neither myself, nor any of my Pony loving compatriots have experienced.

For the money you may want to consider the good ol' 70 Series Repro. Gunsite's can fetch a fair premium depending on where you find it. They do have their differences and depending on what you are looking for check all the options out. A 70 Series Gold Cup would be a sweet find and I personally would opt for that over a Gunsite. Again, just my 2 cents, but I have NO aversion to ANY 70 Series pistol whatsoever.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Regardless of who you buy the pistol from, and what brand you buy - check it over first !!!

Saving 10% of the price just isn't worth it, when you risk getting a lemon. They are not common, but stuff does happen. I have yet to see a problem with a modern Colt, but I can't say the same about the Model 70 back in the 1970's.

I'm not saying don't buy through the mail. I'm saying that if you do, be sure you have a setup where you can inspect the piece. Also be very ready to send it back if there is an issue. You may have to talk this over with both the seller and your FFL before the purchase. It's a *lot* easier when everybody understands what is going on.

Bob

[OD*]

Great looking pistols, Dave. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif