Plate Shoot Fiasco and The Three-Point-Jam

[BillC]

I entered my first plate shoot competition this last weekend up at the range. Fun?
No fun, but plenty of frustration, aggravation, embarrassment, disappointment, confusion…, well you get the point right. :o

I’ve been shooting pretty much twice a week for the last couple of months.
I’ve been reloading my own ammo for about 3 months and experimenting to find what works best.
So far, I like the Rainier, 200 gr. SWC. It makes a nice easy to see hole and its cheap.
Rainier 200 gr. FP, Speer 225 gr. JHP, Speer and Hornady 230 gr. FMJ ball; I haven’t had a problem with any of it,
except that one time… (foreshadowing).

I get to the range Saturday morning and mingle with the group, go over the rules, etc. Very nice folks.
Qualifying rounds.
As I said, I’m relatively new to reloading.
I chose to shoot Independence 230 gr. FMJ rather than my reloads for my first plate shoot, not that confident in my reloads yet.
After the three qualifying rounds I was feeling pretty good. All is well.
My time was right in the middle of the pack despite being so nervous that I was shaking like a leaf.

Elimination rounds.
I get up to the firing line. “Shooters make ready”, I’m ready.
When the front sight comes up to the target its like it was magnetic.
Squeeze, CLICK! Nothing. :eek:
I realized that when I’d let the slide go home it didn’t chamber a round. That’s never happened before.
Reach, rack that slide.
FTRTB! I had a real live three point jam. I cleared it, inserted another mag. and tripped the slide release. FTRTB! Then it was over.
I was stunned to say the least.
Four or five guys, including the guy I was shooting against, came over to offer assistance.
I was offered a do-over, an alibi. It’s all about the fun, right?
The same FTRTB happened when getting ready for the next go 'round. I told the fellow running the shoot I’d have to withdraw.
I was holding up the show and I didn’t feel that was fair to everyone else. :(

Home I went, tail dragging, head down, grinding my teeth.
I stripped and cleaned my pistol. Everything looked fine.
I am in need of some consolation, or a slap, or something.
What do I need to do so this disaster doesn’t repeat it self?

Here is some more information to consider.
The pistol is a Springfield, TRP with less than 2k rounds under its belt. Probably half store bought UMC ball, half reloads, no hot ones.
It’s stock.
I keep a very clean pistol. I always clean and inspect after shooting.
I believe in oil. Why wouldn’t ya?
The mags that I was using were Wilson 8 rd. and CM 10 rd. Jammed with each.
Its only happened with a full magazine.
I’d never shot Independence ammo before. Silly of me? yes.
I believe this to be a real TPJ, bullet nose hard into top of chamber,
side of case against top edge of feed ramp,
and case rim against breach face, below the extractor .
A little push on the slide was not going to fix it.
I’ve tried to read up on this, 1911Tunner’s a great help as well as others.
I’m still not crystal clear on it.
My head is about to pop.
The one time, about a month ago I had a three-point jam with a factory mag.
I was testing out a new load. I thought the COL maybe too short for that Rainier SWC, I now load longer.

I went back yesterday with a mixed bag of ammo and mags.
I beat that pistol like an egg sucking dog.
I could not duplicate a three-point jam like I had the day before.
I thought it may be ammo related.
I ran through a couple mixed ammo mags, you know, a few SWC, FP, HP ball all mixed in the same magazine(s).
I even tried that routine in my Kimber Ultra. They call that displaced aggression. No problems.
I was pushed for time, so I was only able to fire two hundred rounds or so.
Oh, and I now think my reloads are superior to Independence.

So far I don’t think my ammo dimensions are the problem.
Part of me suspects it’s riding the link.
Could just dirt/soot cause this problem?
Why can’t I make it do it all the time?

Thanx for any help.

I need an aspirin or three.

Bill

[Frank]

All I can say is that I've had a similar problem with Independence ammunition. I know it's the ammunition because (1) it occurred with guns that are completely reliable with everything else; (2) it occurred with magazines that are completely reliable with everything else; and (3) upon inspection it appeared that the taper crimp on some of the rounds was out of spec and insufficient resulting in bullet set back and the case mouth hitting the top of the chamber.

DVC

[auto45]

I shoot very little hardball, so I may not be a good "guide", but the only malfunction I've had with hardball was with Independence.

[AndyJay]

What a coincidence, I had a number of ejection failures last weekend with Independence that I don't get with anything else (including cheapo range loads, which the range was out of, which is why I bought the Independence in the first place).

[Hawkmoon]

The range where I shoot sells Independence ... because it's the cheapest they can buy. That might tell you something. I've used some of it when I ran out of my own stuff and wanted to shoot another box. I'll have to check my records and see if it functioned or gave problems.

It can't be any worse than (or likely even as bad as) American Ammunition, though. I made the mistake of buying a few boxes of that stuff and it was so horrible I had to shoot it up, 'cause I would have felt guilty if I had given it to anybody.

[BillC]

I didn’t really think there was anything wrong the Independence other than it was so dirty.
I just assumed there was something wrong with the gun.
I only fired less than twenty rounds that day but my gun was filthy.
After hearing from you guys it makes me think that my pistol isn’t broken after all.
Frank, after reading your post I went a measured a bunch of what I had left.
I don’t have any other ball ammo to compare it to, but tomorrow I going to pick up a box of UMC.
I’ve shot lots of that with no problem.

I’m off to the range tomorrow to practice for the match next month.
I’ll be shooting my reloads; no more el-cheap-o store bought.
This may have been another “You get what you pay for” lesson.
Ya think I’d learn. :butthead:

Bill

[daveohno]

Whenever I've done any training, I always use CCI Blazer and WWWB and really never have any problems. I have no experience with the American or Independence.

[1911Tuner]

I'm nearing the end of my second case of Independence with nary a problem. Pretty hot, as practice-class ball ammo goes. I've heard that it's not very accurate, but it hits the fallin' plates out to 25 yards as reliably as any, so I really can't tell the difference. Might be that a sandbagged group would reveal somethin' about that question, but...

[Tedfs]

Some times it's something as simple as switching out your ammo, always shoot what you practice with. I've found that last minute changes can lead to down time or a plain old bad day. It's normal to second guess yourself when trying something new and go with factory loads. If you've reloaded long enough to find a decent load for your pistol that works during practice, that is what you should shoot in the match. Don't beat yourself up too much either, everyone has to start somewhere. Remember that.

I hope your second match goes better and you have fun. You don't have to win to have a good time, at least that's what I tell myself anyway. ;)

[auto45]

I'm nearing the end of my second case of Independence with nary a problem

That's because you were using a 7 round mag made for ball, not an 8 rounder.
:D

I thought I'd "say" what you were thinking...perhaps!!

And, I think they are too "hot" for my liking.

[1911Tuner]

That's because you were using a 7 round mag made for ball, not an 8 rounder.

Well, yeah...That's normally a foregone conclusion....but not in this case. My range mags are Metalform wadcutter mags...and all my range beaters would probably chamber a busted brick.

:lh:

[auto45]

But all my range beaters would probably chamber a busted brick.

I don't doubt it. ;)

If only I lived in NC, I'd make the trip and show you my "battered" 1911.

Once the "dust settles", I'll try both the 7 and 8 rounders from Checkmate.

[1911Tuner]

If only I lived in NC, I'd make the trip and show you my "battered" 1911.


Ain't nothin' stoppin ya but the price of gas... ;)

...and I betcha my beaters are uglier'n yours.

[auto45]

...and I betcha my beaters are uglier'n yours.

That might be the only "thing" I'd have on you.
You would enjoy this one. :D

Picture a non-professional polish job, by moi, cold blued, worn, self dremeled EB grip safety, cracked frame/slide, drop-in barrel and trigger parts, and it still "works"...ha!

[1911Tuner]

Sounds like a couple of my carry guns...the nicer ones.

Uh...Where'd ya say that slide is cracked?

[auto45]

That's the one where it's cracked on the spring tunnel of the slide, starting from the front at 6 o'clock. About 1/2" long now. Was 1/4" long 1,000 rounds ago.

I 'whacked' that area by accident a while back and had to "dress" it up a bit for the recoil plug to fit. Not much, but apparently enough to cause a "issue".
Too much a coincidence with the crack I would guess...yes?

Thanks, and your beaters must be ugly. ;)

I kinda like "beaters", I'm more "fearless" with them.

[niemi24s]

If I understand correctly where your beater's slide is cracked, I'd stop-drill it so maybe it wouldn't continue to grow (notice the word maybe). The secret is finding the true end of the crack and then drilling the hole so the crack enters the hole but does not depart on the other side of the hole - not even a little tiny bit!

[auto45]

Yes, thanks.

Tuner advised the same fix and will do it, or have it done.

[BillC]

..., always shoot what you practice with. I've found that last minute changes can lead to down time or a plain old bad day. ;)

Tedfs,
I agree, that is of critical importance.
I’m still pretty disgusted with myself for making that mistake.

[1911Tuner]

The secret is finding the true end of the crack and then drilling the hole so the crack enters the hole but does not depart on the other side of the hole - not even a little tiny bit!

Won't matter. The edge of the hole itself is a stress riser. It's just not concentrated in a tiny area like with the end of a crack.

[twin oaks]

find you a nice high tech machine shop, and have it ion welded. Same way they weld the pieces of Tomahawks together. No bead, no grinding, no slag. It literally just 'makes it 1 piece'.

[niemi24s]

Stop-drilling seemed to do a fairly good job for us in slowing down crack propogation in jet engine afterburner liners. Halted a crack in my wood stove for years. Might give you time to find an ion welder (?) while still shooting it.