"New" Defender: Should I be worried?

[DemoMan]

Hi all,

I posted a while back about purchasing a Defender on GunBroker.com. I picked it up last night and for the most part I'm very pleased. It is, as expected, very light and easier to conceal than my standard sized Kimber. It also feels good in my hand -- something I'm surprised by. I really thought I would not like the standard grip. I'll have to see how it goes when I get to the range.

The dealer described the weapon this way: " I can’t see much wear anywhere and I’ll call it a 98% gun. There are just a few light handling marks and rubs here and there.... I’d guess it’s had just a few boxes through it."

I basically agree with his assessment except for two things. I field stripped the weapon and saw some nasty scratches from the slide stop:
http://www.chameleonconsulting.biz/images/coltscratches.jpg

I know 1911's are prone to these kinds of marks but there so much there that it makes me wonder how used this weapon really is. That wasn't the part that really worried me though. Looking at the frame, I saw this mark on the feed ramp:
http://www.chameleonconsulting.biz/images/coltramp.jpg

It looks to me as though this is where the follower in the magazine would touch the ramp. I'm not sure how much of a problem this is. Should I have the ramp polished by a gunsmith? Is it enough of a problem that I should send it back to the dealer I bought it from?

Finally, both the trigger and the grip safety move a bit, producing a soft rattle if I shake the weapon in my hand. Is this normal for Defenders? It wouldn't bother me if I had not seen more signs of wear than I expected!

I'm probably worrying about nothing. Hopefully I'll be able to take this new pony to the range today and see how she runs.

[elijdub]

Doug, Personally, i think these problems are unacceptable, if not disclosed by the "dealer". You can certainly deal with them: the feed ramp can be polished by a 'smith; if you wanted, you could have the gun refinished; and i'm sure Colt can re-fit a new trigger and GS that won't have as much play.
Regardless, i guess it just depends on how much you payed for the gun, and if you're willing to deal with the hassle of getting these things fixed. If I payed top-dollar, and these issues were not disclosed, i would demand a refund, and find another (this is my opinion only). On the other hand, if you got a heck of a price on it (i.e. way below standard cost of a used Defender) i might consider keeping it and fixing the issues.
The only thing that could cause a real problem right away, is the feed ramp, where i wouldn't be surprised if you had FTF's or FTRB's.
I'm curious to see what others have to say.
Good luck!

[DemoMan]

Eli,

Thanks for the response. I should have mentioned that I paid $710 for the weapon which is certainly below what I normally see Defenders go for (usually over $800). I'm not sure what smiths charge these days. I suppose if it is under $90 I haven't wasted money. I certainly agree that the feed ramp is the biggest potential problem.

As for the trigger and grip safety, I'm not sure how much a problem they are. The only other Colt I've used is the one I carried in the service, and it was loose all over...so I'm not sure what normal is. The trigger deflects up and down slightly. The grip safey seems to be the source of the rattle especially when it moves side-to-side. Does anyone else with a Defender see the same thing?

Doug

[Dave Berryhill]

... I field stripped the weapon and saw some nasty scratches from the slide stop:.... Should I have the ramp polished by a gunsmith?

Some info to help you with your decision:

The crescent-shaped scratch behind the trigger (aka "Idiot Mark" ) is from improper installation of the slide stop but the marks underneath the slide stop are common on used pistols from it rubbing on the frame as it moves up and down.

The gouge on your feed ramp is pretty low and probably won't affect feeding. Hand cycle some dummy rounds and look where the nose of the bullet hits. It is more likely to snag a hollow point bullet than a round nose bullet.

Don't polish the feed ramp on an aluminum frame. If the frame is anodized, polishing it will remove this hard thin finish. There are 2 common fixes for badly mangled feed ramps. Either have a steel feed ramp insert installed or have a ramped barrel installed.

[clughog]

DemoMan, for the price you paid I would expect a little better pistol. The blip below the feed ramp isn't a big concern (mine has it as well) and my gunsmith says it's cosmetic only and will not cause any problems. It's the magazine follower slamming into the alloy frame after the last round but it's below the actual feed point. He said to definitely NOT polish it out! The other issues make me question the cost...and the trigger and grip safety on my Defender are pretty tight (but I have less than 1,000 rounds through it). For what it would cost to "make it right" you could buy a new Defender.

[dakota1911]

Your pictures are interesting. I bought my Defender new and now have about 2.6K rounds through it. The marks under the slide stop on mine are not as bad as yours, but that could be a variation of manufacture or perhaps the previous owner fit it with an aftermarket "extended" slide release that didn't fit well.

The marks in the lower part of the feed ramp are worse than mine, but I always use Colt mags with the orange (Teflon?) coated followers. Someone could have used older Officer length mags or mags of other manufacture with uncoated steel followers or even full length mags with steel followers for practice.

From the pictures the rails on your frame look in better shape than mine, but again that may be differences in manufacture and your pistol has a better fit, or it may have less rounds through it.

[DemoMan]

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

I went to the range today and it did not start well. The first three rounds failed to feed, with the nose of the round pointing down into the feed ramp. Pulling back on the slide allowed the round to pop up and then it would fire. I also noticed that the weapon seemed pretty dry so I paused to lube it a little. The rest of the magazine went fine. I had four mags (one came with it, the others were purchased at the gun shop when I picked her up). The next magazine had two rounds do the same sort of FTF. The next two magazines, though, went perfectly well.

I set aside the two magazines that had trouble and fired two full mags without incident. I went on to fire 157 total rounds, 7 Golden Sabre hollow point and the rest Magtech ball. When using the two "good" magazines I had only one FTF, and I think that was me limp wristing it. I was firing with one hand and I don't think I gripped it as well as I should. I even tried the magazines that had misbehaved previously, and found that one still had trouble but the other seemed to be ok.

With the two (and sometimes three) good mags, the weapon performed very well. It kicks like a mule compared to my standard sized Kimber, and of course is not as accurate, but I had good groups at 7 feet and about 15 feet. The trigger is stiffer by about a pound too -- I discovered I'm anticipating the shoot too much because I would start to think "hey, it should have gone off--BANG!" I jerked a couple shots that way. :o

So I'm not sure what to think at this point. I defintely have one magazine that needs an overhaul. The trigger may have some slight motion up and down but otherwise was not bad at all. The grip saftey concerns me simply because if it has too much play it makes me wonder if it will function correctly. I think the next step may be to detail strip and see if I can notice anything obviously wrong.

I may not have much chance to work with it for a while. I'm leaving to visit Mt. Rushmore and points in between on Friday and won't be back until the next Friday. It will be a good chance to carry the Defender and get used to it.

Incidentally, South Dakota recognizes my CCW permit, but we'll have to pass through Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska so I'll have to be careful to comply with their rather different rules!

[.45 ACP]

I like the size of the little 1911s, and I considered a Defender myself before going with a few of the steel and stainless frame minis. The Wilson Combat Officers' Size mags (47OXCB for close to flush fit 7 rd and the 47DOX & 47DOXB-sticks below, holds 8 rounds, and has a stop to keep from over inserting in a Officers' frame) I have work great in 3 different 1911s I have, and they do have a polymer follower which might help protect that frame in the future.

Enjoy your Defender.

Now, if only Lasermax or someone else would build an internal laser for the shorter slides...

[clughog]

Doug! You going to Sturgis? Sure wish I could go this year...and, if you're not a biker, you sure picked a fine week to visit South Dakota! By the way, I love my Defender and I'm sure you'll feel the same way about yours.

[DemoMan]

Doug! You going to Sturgis? Sure wish I could go this year...and, if you're not a biker, you sure picked a fine week to visit South Dakota!

Not exactly. My family has the goal of seeing all 50 states together (at least the capitol building in each one). This summer we're going to head west and pick up Iowa, Nebraska, and South Dakota. We'll be in a cabin up in the Black Hills for a few days and then head back.

We planned all this before we realized it was close to some little bike outing of some kind in Sturgis! :D I'm laughing because I'm a biker wannabe -- She Who Must Be Obeyed hasn't greenlighted a bike yet, though I've been after one for years. I think this is a sign that I'm supposed to get one; she doesn't agree for some reason.

[paul45]

I also noticed that the weapon seemed pretty dry so I paused to lube it a little.May I suggest with keeping it properly lubricated....you replace the recoil system, firing pin spring, and mag springs ......unless you can verify the round count.

Personally, i think these problems are unacceptable, if not disclosed by the "dealer". You can certainly deal with them: the feed ramp can be polished by a 'smith;I might think that what you are seeing is normal.....it is a used piece with an unknown round count. Also one should never polish an aluminum feed ramp.....unless you want to spend alot of money.

[DemoMan]

May I suggest with keeping it properly lubricated....you replace the recoil system, firing pin spring, and mag springs ......unless you can verify the round count.

That sounds like good advice. When you say the recoil system -- which parts does that include? I'm not accustomed to the Defender yet. For example, do you mean just the recoil springs or the guide rod as well?

[paul45]

There are several parts in the assembly. One can just replace the outer spring for 3or4 bucks ....or buy the whole assembly for around 30. Call Colt or try these people.... www.wlje.com

[elijdub]

I might think that what you are seeing is normal.....it is a used piece with an unknown round count. Also one should never polish an aluminum feed ramp.....unless you want to spend alot of money.
It is my opinion that a seller should mention the excessive gouging in the feed ramp. For that matter, the "wearing" as well. It would be a different story if one was to get a heck of a bargain on the gun, but i believe the buyer paid top-dollar for this used gun. Don't get me wrong, I still think it was a good deal, and the "issues" can certainly be dealt with, BUT I absolutely think the seller should disclose ALL the pertinent info before the sale is transacted.
I mentioned that a GUNSMITH could deal with the feed ramp, not the owner. Maybe polishing isn't the right way to deal with it, but there are methods that work.
I agree that changing out the springs is a good plan.

[DuckRyder]

You know, I keep looking at that feedramp picture.

Is it just me or has it ALREADY BEEN polished? My only anodized frame is a Super 38 and the shape is obviously not the same but even after thousands of rounds of FMJ and several hundred hollowpoints it does not have that oscillating polish look in the center.

[twin oaks]

My thoughts too, Duck. It's a little fuzzy but I think I'm making out the tell tale marks of a rotary tool. Time to check the barrel for throating work via the dremel.

[clughog]

It's hard to tell from his picture, but I don't think it has been re-polished. The feedramp on my Defender was pretty well polished from the factory, and this one doesn't look any more so than mine. And, as I said previously, this doesn't affect functionality at all--it's below the point of entry for a live round. My gunsmith's advise was to leave it alone!

[Turtle]

Mine is tight and does not rattle whatsoever.

I would send it back if you are not happy with it.

Hi all,


Finally, both the trigger and the grip safety move a bit, producing a soft rattle if I shake the weapon in my hand. Is this normal for Defenders? It wouldn't bother me if I had not seen more signs of wear than I expected!