PDA

View Full Version : What is the best penetrating 45 ACP?



ThePainkiller
16th July 2007, 19:01
I need some good penetrators for my 1911. Now, caliber conversions aside, whats the best and what kind of penetration are we talking? JHP or FMJ is acceptable, I may need to chase away some dangerous game and Id like to have a BUG with a solid round in it.

1944Colt
16th July 2007, 21:02
I'm assuming any case conversions or anything of that sort are out. Standard cases only.

From my testing, a 230 grain hard cast flatpoint (Lee 230 truncated cone or equivalent) cast hard and driven to +P velocities with something like Power Pistol, at around 950+ fps.

The flatpoint 230's tend to outpenetrate ball or lead 230 RN bullets, which tumble at the end of their penetration a bit. While FMJ-FP's penetrate well in softer media like wet phone books, the lead in their cores is relatively soft, and a hard cast bullet has the advantage over them when it comes to penetrating hard bone. IMO and experience.

While heavier bullets may be fired from the ACP, their considerably lower velocity does not confer any advantage over a 230 FP driven faster.

In wet phone books, I find ball penetrates around 16-18 inches. The FP's driven faster increase this by maybe three-four inches. Whether that's enough more to make a difference I dunno, but more penetration can't hurt anything, and the FP's make a bigger hole than ball does.

3gigabytes
16th July 2007, 21:07
The link below is by no means the definitive work on the topic but may contain some useful information to assist you with your decision... :)

WATER jug penetration tests (from Steve's pages) (http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html)

Longslide
16th July 2007, 21:18
Best penetration = most penetration is FMJ +P 230grain

Most stopping is pentration effectiveness is Federal Hydra shok 230 grain

pa_guns
16th July 2007, 21:36
Hi

The simple answer is that even with a "solid" the 45 ACP round isn't going to be that great on penetration. Elephants have nothing to fear from 45 ACP :D :D

If you are going after something where real penetration matters then something bigger (lots bigger) than a 45 ACP is called for. I won't dispute the 12 to 18 inch numbers mentioned above. I will say that in a "real target" the minimum number may be a bit less than 12 inches.

The problem isn't just the bullet holding together. It's also how fast it's rotating and how long it is. Everything interacts to determine how straight the bullet travels after it hits an object. Short stubby 45 bullets traveling slow are not optimum ...

Big revolvers can do a *lot* better job at this kind of thing. If you can, forget about pistols and go with a rifle.

Bob

sprice1973
17th July 2007, 08:10
Well,i think a .45ACP is a great man stopping round.But as Bob stated above,when it comes to wild animals,bears,mountain lion,etc,i would rather be carrying something with a bit more punch,big revolver or rifle.

ThePainkiller
17th July 2007, 11:47
Best penetration = most penetration is FMJ +P 230grain

Most stopping is pentration effectiveness is Federal Hydra shok 230 grain

Who sells factory FMJ +P?

Longslide
17th July 2007, 11:53
OPPPSSSS

185 grain - and it would be POWER BALL! Thought they were 230 grain.

ThePainkiller
17th July 2007, 13:02
I forgot about double tap, I think they do...

Icepick15
17th July 2007, 16:36
What do you mean by "chase away some dangerous game"? What kind of dangerous game? Maybe a 45 auto isn't the best choice.

horse 91-A1
18th July 2007, 05:12
I'm a little surprised by the penetration results at Steve's website.

This Sierra bullet, next to a Federal 9mm EFMJ for comparison

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Sierra240fJHCcomparison9mmEFMJ003.jpg

went through this 0.092" steel barrier

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Barriertesting10mm38super45acp035.jpg

dropping its jacket in #4 one gallon water bottle with the core recovered in #5 water jug.

The 240JHC in the demo was a practice low 800s round to check for reliable feeding in a 1991. It can be loaded to about 900fps in a 1911 and 1100fps from a S&W 25-2. When loading for the wheelgun, I always put the finished product in moon clips so the two loads don't get mixed together. :D

It wouldn't be my first choice, but after seeing what some of the other bullets penetrated w/o the steel barrier, I'd say the Sierra is a good performer. :)

Bob

kentucky Shooter
18th July 2007, 08:03
I would side with the 230 grain FMJ as the best penetrator.

ThePainkiller
18th July 2007, 14:44
What do you mean by "chase away some dangerous game"? What kind of dangerous game? Maybe a 45 auto isn't the best choice.

Umm, Chupacabras. Tough suckers. Ha no pun intended. I have a hog problem and they are angry. All i got is the 45 and some rifles but I dont feel like packing my AR when I go out.

Icepick15
18th July 2007, 16:08
I understand about not wanting to lug a rifle around all the time. But if I thought I might get into a situation where I'd have to ward off an "angry" hog, a 45 auto wouldn't be my first choice.

A wildlife management area where I used to hunt had a population of feral hogs. If I wasn't hunting with at least a .30 caliber rifle, I'd pack a .44 mag revolver along. If I had a Ruger Super Blackhawk, I almost always opted for the classic Elmer Keith load...Lyman 429421 hard cast LSWC and 22 grains of 2400. If I was carrying my 4 inch S&W 629, I didn't use quite as heavy a load.

Now that I think about it, I guess I just about always had a .44 mag with me, regardless of what rifle I was toting.

If you're limited to a 45 auto, you might try some 230 grain FMJ flatpoints. They're pretty good penetrators. I would think that it's going to take more than one hit to "stop" a disgruntled hog. I haven't loaded any for a long time, but when I used to shoot bowling pins that was my preferred bullet. With 6.4 or 6.5 grains of Unique, it about duplicates factory velocity. I never wanted to go any hotter than that.

***That is some old load data, and if I recall, is right about the max load. Work up to it.***

Truckjohn
18th July 2007, 20:36
Hogs up close can be pretty tough and quick -- but not hard to kill with a good head shot.

A 22lr is the standard tool of hog farmers across the US -- it will go right in the ear or through the skull without a problem.... you just gotta be close.

Getting the shot is usually the hard part, and a mad boar up close won't stop with a chest or shoulder shot. Head or spine shots are the key.... so your most accurate confident load will do the job fine. The 200g hard cast SWC will do a fine job on a hog's head up close.

The advantage with hogs is that they can't climb -- so you are safe a couple feet off the ground, where you could take a careful shot if you were so inclined.

Good luck

John

pa_guns
18th July 2007, 21:54
Hi

The problem is the "false sense of sense of security". A 45 ACP simply isn't a hog killer at normal hunting ranges. Even if you dump the entire mag, you may not get a solid kill. You are *much* better getting a 44 mag or a 50 S&W.

Bob

Rich-D
18th July 2007, 23:26
I need some good penetrators for my 1911. Now, caliber conversions aside, whats the best and what kind of penetration are we talking? JHP or FMJ is acceptable, I may need to chase away some dangerous game and Id like to have a BUG with a solid round in it.

The question posed excludes caliber conversions, and states the .45 is a BUG. With the facts presented in mind, the best round for big game in a .45 is a Hard Cast 200 to 230 gr +P flat nose bullet. If you can't find the +P still go with the hardcast bullet for maximum penetration.

3gigabytes
19th July 2007, 00:41
Just out of curiosity, if the 45 ACP is the BUG, what is the primary weapon?

ThePainkiller
19th July 2007, 12:42
The question posed excludes caliber conversions, and states the .45 is a BUG. With the facts presented in mind, the best round for big game in a .45 is a Hard Cast 200 to 230 gr +P flat nose bullet. If you can't find the +P still go with the hardcast bullet for maximum penetration.


Any Factory amde ammo like that?




Just out of curiosity, if the 45 ACP is the BUG, what is the primary weapon?

Usually AR, but occasionally Ill take out my AK or 12 Guage

Rich-D
19th July 2007, 15:09
Any Factory made ammo like that?



I bought them at gun shows from reloaders. However checking on the internet I have not been able to find. Maybe a member that reloads can help.

A flat nose does not tumble as easily as a round nose and drives deeper on big game. However I did find flat nose +P in FMJ, the next best thing to hard cast for penetration.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45acp

45230FMJ/50 230 gr. FMJFN @ 950 fps (461 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 50
$40.99-- Per Box of 20 $21.59