View Full Version : "J J" mark on 1911 .455
10th July 2007, 19:21
I have just come across and am purchasing a Colt 1911 .455 all correct in excellent condition.Serial number is W712xx and this was an officer's private purchase pistol.To my surprise on the left side of the frame on the bevel at the trigger guard is the J.J. stamping .This is the first time I have seen this on a .455 pistol with a serial number above W30000ish.Has anyone else had expericence with this.Appreciate any comments/feedback.
20th July 2007, 20:48
The 'J J' has been observed on some Colt's sold commercially in the UK. It is speculated that the initials are Mr. D. J. Penn's who was the Keeper of the Dept. of Exhibits and Firearms at the Imperial War Museum in London. These initials began with the Model 1902, and is not considered a British Military marking.
20th July 2007, 21:36
Clawson states on P.124 of Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series) "Some Colt automatic pistols commercially sold in the United Kingdom were stamped with the letters "JJ" on the bevelled edge above the left front trigger guard. Mr. D.J. Penn, Keeper of the Department of Exhibits and Firearms, Imperial War Museum, London, commented that this same marking had been noted on many non-military Colt pistols beginning with the 1902 models; therefore, it is not considered a British military marking."
Considering Mr. David J. Penn is credited on the Acknowledgment page of Clawson's book, and the fact that Mr. Clawson says he commented...I'll conclude the "JJ" are not the initials of D.J. Penn. Mr. Clawson corresponded with Mr. Penn, who furnished information for the book. :D
The specific meaning of the letters "JJ" are not known to date.
21st July 2007, 20:39
' .....speculated..... '
......just a comment, certainly doesn't need to be graded....
21st July 2007, 23:48
I'm not grading anything...I just provided the information Mark E asked for, and tried to clear up any confusion he may have had over who D.J. Penn is.
Bob, when you said "It is speculated...", I'm curious about the source of that information which led you to believe those were D.J. Penn's initials. I thought perhaps another book had that in it. But I've checked all the sources I have, and can only find what I posted from P.124 of Clawson's book.
I realize Clawson's research information is often mis-quoted and even more often misunderstood. The similarity of text in your post to Clawson's book leads me to think your source info came from Clawson's, but...is there some other book or Internet site I should look at? I even checked Harrison's book, but even he says "JJ", identity unknown...
22nd July 2007, 12:10
My fault as I was working from memory...... may have been Scott Meadow's book, but the bottom line is 'JJ's identity has been commented on and speculated, but never confirmed.
9th September 2007, 10:30
Last week while looking through William Goddard's book "The Government Models" I deceided to go to page 154 which covers British Contract 1911s. While looking at the illusration I saw the pistol used was in the same serial number range as the one I recently obtained.The illustrated model also had the "JJ " mark on it and can be seen fairly plainly.
I realized I have now answered my own question that my pistol is not a lone anomaly but that a shipment of W70000ish pistols was similarly marked and possible sold as private purchase pistols.
The reference pistol used is credited to the collection of Mr. David Buehn,bearing s/n W788xx.My thanks to all who contributed info to this thread.
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