question about Ambi safeties

[DouglasW]

I am contemplating my first 1911, probably a Colt (Commander length XSE or NRM). I am a lefty and will need an ambi safety. In perusing the archive here about Colts and 1911s, I've heard many mentions of the various aftermarket ambidextrous safety offerings by McCormick, Cylinder & Slide, Wilson, etc, but no clear comparisons.

So a couple of questions for the gurus (if I don't get an XSE, which comes with an ambi safety):
1. How do the various ambi safeties differ from each other? Is it function, or just aesthetics?
2. Is there one aftermarket supplier that members prefer for their Colts?
3. What features should I look for in evaluating ambi safeties?
4. Does one safety 'blend' (look stock) better on a blue NRM (model 04691)?

Have I missed any good previous discussions in my search? Any other suggestions or advice would be welcome.

Thanks!

[Quasi Moto]

I have been comparing ambi safeties and I have noticed a few differences between makers. The biggest difference seems to be the size of the thumb pad. Some ambis have a larger pad on the left side of the frame and slimmer on the right. Since you are lefty I would watch for this. I would assume you want one that is not slimmer on the right side which is where your dominant thumb will be placed. Even some of the over size or extended thumb safeties have different size pads on left/right. I am leaning towards the high thumb ambi from Wilson Combat right now.

[DouglasW]

I have been comparing ambi safeties and I have noticed a few differences between makers. The biggest difference seems to be the size of the thumb pad. Some ambis have a larger pad on the left side of the frame and slimmer on the right. Since you are lefty I would watch for this.

Ignorant question (I'm full of them :o ): So the new safety is a complete replacement for the existing single-sided safety? It isn't just 'added' to the right side of the frame?

Thanks for the reply.

[Joni Lynn]

The ambi will replace the existing safety and you'll have a new left & right side.

[Chesster]

I got several mueschke ambi safety standard lever blue from Brownells for my older Colt 70 series and a 1991A1. It is the Colt style and looks factory in shape and design. I've had good luck with them but others have a different opinion I've read. They cost around $30 each or less if memory serves.

[Joni Lynn]

I have the Colt version of that on my series 80 Gold Cup and like it more than most others.

[ClarkEMyers]

First I'd say find a Colt that has an ambi safety you like or have Colt install one for you after you have handled a few and determined what you like and know what you want. Pictures of all kinds all over the 'Net

Failing that I'd put myself in the hands of my smith and say give me a safety of the smith's suggestion for games or for carry or for what have you and I'd expect the smith to work with me in terms of turning around changes on the pad to suit me - not sending me to the back of a queue for changes to the pad but also not doing more work for nothing. It's quite possible a good discussion with an experienced smith in your area of interest - bullseye, carry etc. will get it right the first time or at least good enough until you've tried a lot more pistols.

I'd say the biggest difference is attachment - the pad is cosmetic and should be chosen appropriately and altered if necessary. Altering pads as necessary really can be necessary as pads will hit some thumb knuckles or wipe off in holsters - change the holster - or otherwise interfere with laser grips or......

The more common attachment is the Swenson heritage design where the shaft of the traditional left side safety for the right hand thumb is slotted to accept a tongue from the newly added right side safety for the left hand thumb and the right side safety is retained by friction and by a (second apart from the shaft into the pistol) tongue flat against the right side against the frame that fits under a slotted right side grip.

This has been shown to work well, requires a slotted right side grip panel - pictures all over see e.g. Esmeralda above - and sometimes interferes with oddball or laser grips and loosens up on the friction fit with attendent problems of misalignment and binding. The right side pad for the left hand can migrate out and bind on the inside of the grip to cause issues but mostly doesn't. More likely to give trouble over time with a heap of down pressure from a hard high riding left hand thumb on the right side pad.

The second system does not use a tongue against the frame and a slot in the grip panel. Instead the second system uses big head pin in which a sort of key hole groove in the frame side of the righthand pad is enlarged to fit over the big head then runs in a sort of track for retention. This system also has been field tested and works but is much less popular - perhaps just more expensive and perhaps more nuisance.

Although I have an ambi safety on my game gun (from Wilson) I'd say pick one side only for use and minimize the opposing pad to a bare minimum - the weak hand can - with practice - operate an offside safety reasonably well for most people.

Not asked but another consideration is current or future plans for other changes especially a highgrip beavertail - less likely perhaps with a Commander and its hammer - Ed Brown makes about the highest grip beavertail and sometimes the rear of the safety pad gets taken down quite a ways to match the very much shortened tangs - it is quite possible to take a number of parts all first rate in themselves and end up with a less than optimal final - future plans are something to discuss with a smith if you don't buy Colt all the way.

Again I'd either buy from Colt or take the advice of the man who is going to put it in.

[DouglasW]

Thank you for the replies. I'm learning a lot. Mr. Myers, your descriptions sound like fitting the ambi-safety requires modifying the frame (especially to fit the big head pin). Are some designs reversible, where the pistol could be switched back to single-sided without any detriment?

Does anyone make a ambi safety where the right side has a large pad and the left has a skinny pad, or is that something the smith would have to grind/shape? I've seen the reverse and equal sized pads, but not a really lefty-friendly off-the-shelf design.

Thanks again.

[ClarkEMyers]

Most all designs are reversible and the big headed pin is just that - an existing hammer pin (some may use a sear pin) that normally fits flush gets a big head replacement.
See page 3 of the Kings Gun Works catalog at http://www.kingsgunworks.com/newcatalog/page03.html

The safety is a closely fitted part and I wouldn't count on going back and forth repeatedly without very special care.

[John]

Those which rely on the sear pin to secure the right side of the safety, come with a slotted, longer sear pin. The ones which use the hammer pin come with a longer hammer pin, with a slot cut all around its circumference, on the right side. The head of the pins are not oversized.

http://forum.m1911.org/images/airsoft/meu/Pict1502.jpg

The above picture is from an airsoft pistol, which uses the hammer-pin safety, as produced by King's and Kimber, but it gives you a good idea of how this arrangement works. If I were to install an ambi on my 1911, it would be this one. The hammer pin is closer to the pivoting axis of the safety, and it is massive in diameter, compared to the sear pin, so it should provide a more secure mounting mechanism than the other two kinds.

Here is a picture of a real safety of the hammer-pin kind.

http://www.rogersprecision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/det1safety.jpg

[sprice1973]

Nice illustration John!

[Joni Lynn]

Nice pics of the safety, I had been wondering if that was how they worked.

[Ping Ping]

Man, how I wish John had been my 7th grade algebra teacher! Nice !

Couple other things to note:

No safety is a "drop in" mod. They all require some fitting. Unless you're very comfortable with DIY gunsmithing, have it done by the factory, or a qualified smith.

Most lefties, and a lot of us righties, find that the large platform on the left side of the safety can be extremely abusive to the knuckle of your trigger finger when shooting southpaw. When you send it off for fitting, have them take down the left side a bit. This will make shooting it a lot more pleasant.

If John would be kind enough to show a pic of his Talon's safety, this is what I am talking about.

[John]

Ain't you tired of seeing that? There you go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Talon/Dsc_0328.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/Talon/PICT0063.jpg

Actually, I would have prefered the pad of the safety to be a tiny bit longer, very tiny bit though. The rest is shaped perfectly.

[Ping Ping]

Ask, and ye shall receive!

Thanks, John!

Ain't you tired of seeing that? There you go.You're kidding, right? ;)

[Rob1035]

for the record, which brands offer the type of attachment like in John's pictures on page 1 of this thread? I know the King's does, as does the Mueschke anyone else?

Thanks
Rob

[xsquid]

Just for general knowledge I had a Colt cdr xse and the right side of the ambi safety is mim. If adding one I would go with a wilson, brown or some other brand as they will probably cost the same, or even less and be better than mim. I removed mine and installed a wilson extended single side safety because I was using the gun for carry and I am right handed. I didn't need the ambi. Some will argue they have never had a mim part break, and that's fine, but I see no rason to choose mim over barstock when they are probably close to the same price and both will have to be fitted. Even before I saw the mim marks on mine I could tell a weight difference and the short time before I changed it out the right side got loose and you could see where it looked softer than the left side.

[RickB]

=I removed mine and installed a wilson extended single side safety because I was using the gun for carry and I am right handed. I didn't need the ambi. Some will argue they have never had a mim part break, and that's fine, but I see no rason to choose mim over barstock when they are probably close to the same price and both will have to be fitted.

Other than the SVI safety, which is barstock, the others on the market of which I'm aware are made via some casting process. The MIM safeties are cheapest ($30), then investment cast ($60), then the SVI beauty ($90). Kimber's new hammer pin safety is MIM, but they hold it much more dear than the old style. I like the Kimber part better than the King's, conceptually, because the Kimber part rotates down onto the hammer pin, and there's a positive stop built in. The King's part rotates up from the bottom, so there has to be some sort of external stop, else riding the safety with the left thumb will apply all the torque to the jointed pin. I like the Swenson style ambi, because the grip panel provides a solid stop, saving the pin joint.

[moorerwc]

I would definitely go with either the Kings or Kimber ambi b/c of the strength of the pin support. You can look around for various gunsmith's treatments of the the added pins for Swenson style ambis--I think Chuck Rogers posted a few on the other 1911 board a few years back.

Sorry to link to the other board, but this is the most interesting lefty 1911 I've seen

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=170741

-Chad

[xsquid]

You are right rick, I should have said cast and not bar stock. Most do investment cast then machine it, the thumb safety and grip safety are 2 parts that are normally cast. I still recommend it over mim though.

[bbeard]

Les Baer says he always make the ambi safety small on the right side because riding this side will cause the safety to shear.

[dakota1911]

Being of the right handed majority, I usually remove mine and go back to a righty only while I carry, but I would try to reduce the size of the levers as much as possible. These are often called "tactical", and check your holster or other method of carry to be sure the safety remains on while you carry up until you want to flip it off.