Barrel selection/Reaming and Advice

[PaulBera]

Hi everyone, thanks for everyones help with my last issue. I'm in the market for a new barrel, im building a Caspian, i have a Kart easy fit barrel that im installing in one of my pistols but i need another barrel to put into my other 1911. I have been looking at the top barrels, Nowlin, Wilson Bar-sto and Kart. Im having a hard time buying a drop in barrel. I just can't seem to justify the price when the gunsmith fit barrels are even cheaper and offer a higher degree of accuracy if correctly fitted. I WANT THE BEST!! I have the agi dvd and have watched the instructor fit a barrel with hand tools and he made it look very simple. I can buy all the tools from brownells, such as the barrel aligning block and the egw measuring tool etc and i am patient as anyone. I can also get the Wilson lug cutter. I can follow the instructions to the tee. The bushing should be no problem and the hood length and width can be measured and i can either use a file or my small mill. Should i go for it??? If so what barrel would you pick and why? I was looking at the bar-sto but the kart is only $109 from brownells with my discount, i don't know if it comes with a bushing though? Anyone know? Wilson also caught my eye. One of my biggest concerns is the reaming of the chamber, do all match barrels need to be reamed? I have the headspace gauges already so i can check that. If a Kart needs to be reamed but a bar-sto doesnt id buy the bar-sto and vice versa, i just don't fancy reaming a barrel. Id rather do it myself if im going to do it and not use a gunsmith. I just need to do work on my own gun to have confidence in it....just the way i am. Or should i just swallow my obsession with wanting the very best accuracy and buy a drop in? Thanks.

[John]

As far as I know no match barrel needs to be reamed. Fitting the barrel to the slide and the frame is one thing, reaming the chamber? The manufacturer should have done that to perfection.

[Dave Berryhill]

You probably won't need to ream the chamber but it will depend on the barrel's fit with your pistol. If you do need to, it won't take much cutting and you should be able to finish ream it by hand. You won't know until the barrel is fit and you check it with headspace gauges.

I believe that the Kart barrel sold by Brownells doesn't come with a bushing. It will say whether it does or not in the description. You can order it with a bushing directly from Kart or buy another bushing from Brownells.

Only you can decide if you are up to the task or not. Consider practicing your filing techniques first if you decide to try it yourself.

[Candiru]

The Kart EZ-Fit barrel I used for my build needed to be finish-reamed, as its chamber was tapered. I'd be surprised if the hard-fit barrels came with anything more than absolute minimum chamber depth and width.

[PaulBera]

Okay so what kind of an increase in accuracy are we likely to be talking with a gunsmith fit over a drop in, obviously it will be different on all guns depending on how well the drop in fits, but in general whats the usual outcome? I do believe that i can fit the barrel myself, brownells doesn't sell kart bushings separately, i know the easy fit comes with a bushing but the match doesn't say if it does or doesn't. I've sent a message to brownells to ask. I could just buy a bar-sto drop in or a wilson drop in but i run the risk of not being happy with the accuracy and buying a gunsmith fit anyway. Im thinking if i slightly mess it up i still have a good barrel thats essentially the same as a drop in. Which barrel manufacturer would you choose?

[John]

As far as I am concerned, the real question is not that. The real question is, will you be able to tell the difference in accuracy? I mean I've met very few people in my life, who could take full advantage of the intrinsic accuracy of a pistol (my ex was one of them, but she was a member of the Greek National Team). Unless you can shoot cloverleafs at 25 meters and unless you can precisely call your every shot before you see your target, you won't be able to tell the difference in accuracy.

[Dave Berryhill]

Unless you are a very proficient shooter, you may not be able to tell the difference. Even fitting an oversized match bushing to your factory barrel should give you an improvement in accuracy unless your existing bushing is fit tightly.

If you decide to fit it yourself, you may want to consider either a Kart EZ fit or an Ed Brown for your first attempt. Even though the Ed Brown barrels are supposed to be "drop-ins" they usually require a little bit of fitting - a pretty good compromise.

[rodinal220]

PB,the gunsmith fit Kart barrel does not come with a bushing,nor a link or pin either.If you can tackle the Kart EZ-fit(?) barrel you should be able to do a "hard fit" barrel.Just have the correct tools,patience,and measure 4 times and cut once!!

I like Kart barrels personally,the others you list are all good choices.Brownells will special order you a Kart bushing if you want one,shoot em an email,they are most helpful.

[Dave Berryhill]

....Brownells will special order you a Kart bushing if you want....

Why wait for a special order. You can order direct from Kart. They are a great company to deal with but aren't very computer friendly. Just give them a call.
910-754-5212

[Greg Derr]

As others have said, just dropping in a new barrel isn't the answer. But if you are looking for the best, My .02 cents.

If you are shooting only FMJ's I would go with the BarSto. THey will sell you a match chamber and a fit bushing at extra cost.

If you plan on shooting both lead and jacketed, I would use Kart.

Now that being said, I Ransom rest all the guns I build for BE, soem barrels with shoot very tight (sub two inch) groups at 50 yards.- That is with proper fitting and the right load, this all takes time and testing.

Most builders(me included) go to Kart first since Fred's barrels have a very good and long held reputation for quality- even a not so good Kart is better than many other makers barrel.

That is not to say that other makers are bad. I shoot a gun with a Colt barrel that my dad shot in the 1960's which still shoots sub two inch groups. As Dave said you may be asking for too much, without a full bullseye workup you won't get these groups.

Greg.

[PaulBera]

Ive made my mind up to go with the bar-sto or Kart whoever ships fastest will get my money. I have another problem i thought i would run by you guys since i don't want to start up a new thread. I have been having bullet set back with my reloads, ive already asked in the reloading section but im putting this down to a technical issue. Heres the deal and what i need your advice on. When i place a magazine into the pistol with the slide locked back, i have some slop, after the magazine clicks home in the mag catch i can move the magazine slightly up and slightly down, not much but it does move up and down. If i chamber a round with the magazine in it's normal position i get bullet set back, if i push the bottom of the magazine against my leg to hold it higher in the gun i get hardly any set back, the magazines are wilson combat 7 and 8 rounders and i have tried a new magazine catch, lock and spring and with the same results, all the wilson mags im talking about have basepads, the 7 rounder has a higher follower but the 8 rounder has a hollowed out follower to accept the 8 rounds so the top round sits lower. I have a lot of problems to feed with the 8 rounder but if i push the bottom of the mag against my leg to hold it higher it feeds. Is this normal in a 1911, if you can lock the slide back and put a wilson mag with a basepad into the gun, can you push the magazine in slightly further with your hand after it's engaged in the lock? I really need some help with this issue, of all my problems with this gun this is the one i need fixing the most, is there a way to take that 1/2 inch of up and down play out of the magazine and have it stick ll the way flush and hence improve my feeding. Thanks for all the info on the barrels, im probably not good enough to notice the extra accuracy but why not have it anyway, i'll give it a go, but the magazine problem is my biggest and last problem with this gun, my gun will only feed with wilson 7 round followers because the rest of the mags dont hold the top round high enough and it 3 point binds, thats when i noticed the slight slop. Thanks again, Mike.

[John]

1/2 inch of vertical play??

Some play is normal but 1/2" is way too much. I believe you are exaggerating or your measurements are wrong.

Bullet set back, I am not into reloading but are you crimping your rounds properly?

[PaulBera]

Sorry your correct i was looking at the metric on my calipers, it's actually 0.062 inches, it is noticable though, i can see it moving up and down, if it's normal im happy since wilson 7 round followers all do the job and thats all i need. As for the crimping i crimped the bullet tighter and there was no set back but that was with a heavy crimp that may be dangerous, i'll mess around a bit and see if i can get a solid and safe setup. thanks John, you should be on the pay roll.

[John]

As I said, I have no reloading experience, so I can't advise you on the crimping issue. Have a look at the Ammo forum though, there are some threads on this in there.

Slight up and down movement is normal, the magazine does not lock motionless in place.

[robot1911]

John is so right...mag movement vertically when locked is normal. If your mags don't have strong springs, or the followers are not right, you'll have that 'nosedive' condition with an 8 rounder and sometimes even with a 7 rounder. If you can find one to borrow, get a Metalform 7-round mag and try it. They have excellent followers that discourage the nosedive.

On the barrel: You may have a long wait for a BarSto, and you may also have installation problems because of the dimension of them. I'd go for the Kart and also order an EGW Angle-Bored bushing from Brownells if you go for the gunsmith-fit. However, if it was me and I didn't plan to do any 50 yard precision shooting, I'd go for a Storm Lake drop-in...I think Brownells sells them and maybe Wilson as well. And they do come with a link, pin and bushing. It may need just a tad fitting, or may not. At 25 yards I've yet to see one that wouldn't hold ten-ring or better.
The Kart gunsmith-fit will probably need to be reamed, if not for headspace, then just to cleanup the chamber because there's usually a little variance in there. I think you can get a piloted reamer from Brownells.

Bob

[Iron bottom]

I recently got a NM Barsto from Midway USA. It came with the bushing and link. If you're looking for a .45 ACP, Midway has them in stock at $190.00. My opinion; a high quality accurate barrel never hurt any pistol. You may not shoot a lot better, but you will shoot better.

[gbw]

John is so right...mag movement vertically when locked is normal. If your mags don't have strong springs, or the followers are not right, you'll have that 'nosedive' condition with an 8 rounder and sometimes even with a 7 rounder. If you can find one to borrow, get a Metalform 7-round mag and try it. They have excellent followers that discourage the nosedive.

On the barrel: You may have a long wait for a BarSto, and you may also have installation problems because of the dimension of them. I'd go for the Kart and also order an EGW Angle-Bored bushing from Brownells if you go for the gunsmith-fit. However, if it was me and I didn't plan to do any 50 yard precision shooting, I'd go for a Storm Lake drop-in...I think Brownells sells them and maybe Wilson as well. And they do come with a link, pin and bushing. It may need just a tad fitting, or may not. At 25 yards I've yet to see one that wouldn't hold ten-ring or better.
The Kart gunsmith-fit will probably need to be reamed, if not for headspace, then just to cleanup the chamber because there's usually a little variance in there. I think you can get a piloted reamer from Brownells.

Bob

If you want stainless NM, look also at Schuemann - a little less costly than Bar-Sto, available, and very accurate in my limited experience. His Classic (standard) requires fitting and finish reaming.

As Bob says, and as I learned from 1911Tuner and Lubaloy, the Kart NMs do normally benefit from reaming, the chambers seem to be just very slightly tapered. The Mason piloted reamer ($60, iirc), also cuts a .100 freebore. Anyhow, I think finish reaming did help with my Karts.

[PaulBera]

Thanks guys i need to inform you that i have 2 1911's 1 is a caspian which i am putting a Kart easy fit into and the other is an old milspec with a 4lb pull,beavertail etc. I figured it wasn't worth the wait for the Kart and Bar-sto so i decided to try out a Storm Lake drop in kit. Reasons are, the barrel i am using in the Milspec right now is old and beat up, other reasons are the rest of the gun isnt really good enough to see the maximum accuracy from a barrel like a bar-sto and Schuemann gunsmith fit. I have heard some good things about the Storm Lake with bushing and Link. Since my current barrel is a very sloppy fit in the hood area and the lugs on the barrel feet are a little crooked and beat up i figure i should see a good improvement with a new barrel. Just decided it wasn't worth the hassle to put a barrel of that Quality into a gun of that poor quality. All the information you guys gave me will help me on the next build on an sti slide and frame. From everything i have heard, it seems any of the top barrels such as Kart Bar-sto Nowlin,Schuemann and a few others will do the job just fine if fit correctly, also most will need the chambers reaming if just for more reliability. So for my next build i feel like i know what to look for thanks to everyone for their kind input.

I'M getting bullet setback quiet significantly, mostly with the top 2 rounds, seems the extra tightness of the top 2 rounds is causing them to nosedive, the other 5 rounds seem to move straight. Almost as if the extra grip on the top 2 rounds is holding them so tight that as they are pushed forward, the front is released and instantly drops while the back of the round is still being held very tightly and so it remains upward. If i load the mag with 5 rounds it doesnt happen. Also if i chamber the rounds very slowly with my hand they all go into the barrel very very easily, speed doesn't seem to help. I can try a metalform magazine unless there is something else i can try. I will try to post a couple of pictures to show what im talking about.

[gbw]

There are several recent threads where 1911Tuner addresses exactly this issue - search on 'stem bind' and '3-point', they should help. IIRC, mostly it is a magazine issue, secondarily a frame feed ramp issue, then comes barrel ramps and chamber edge, and finally after all else is in spec, read Tuner's writeup on 3-point jams in the tech section.