Binding with short guide rod- Please Help!

[Black Elk]

A guy knows I'm into guns so his 1911 shows up at my door yesterday all in pieces. I am used to my V-16 with FLGR and this one is an old Colt 455 with SGR.

Upon assembly I did not like the way the rod and spring twisted around. During a function test the slide locked up and I think it is the GR hitting the plunger.

Am I missing something?
Can someone help me figure this out so he does not have a none functional/unsafe 1911?

[pdoppenheim]

Tuner will know.

In the meantime, try to function the gun without the spring to see if the guide rod is hitting. Check that you have the proper weight and length spring in the gun. Check that the tight end of the spring is on the rod and the loose end is in the plug. Make sure the plug is all the way forward and that the spring is fully inserted into the plug. Check that you have the proper length guide rod. I think the commander requires a shorter rod than the GOV model. I also think the GOV model may take a longer plug than a commander. I never compared so I'm just guessing about the lengths.

[DuckRyder]

A Commander does in fact have a shorter plug, guide rod and bushing.

Assuming we are talking about a standard GI style guide rod and plug, there should not be any twisting around to speak of. The closed end of the spring should press onto the guide rod. The plug (again assuming it is factory Colt) should have a tab on it that "screws" into the spring. It seems counter intuitive but I find it easiest to attach if I pull outward on it slightly after I feel contact.

It might be helpful to see pictures of what you are working with, a pistol which arrived in pieces could have any number of strange mismatches...

[pdoppenheim]

Thanks for clearing up my length questions on Cdr vs Gov. Good suggestions. That's the nice thing about this forum, eventually we get everything figured out. BlackElk, just be patient.

DuckRyder: What's the gun in your avatar? It looks like your Colt but the grips are different.

[DuckRyder]

Here is a comparison of a Commander and Government GI style assembly.

http://home.att.net/~duckryder/GIGuideRodW.jpg

pdoppenheim, it is one of the stock avatars, I think that it is a Wilson CQB, but I am not sure.

[Black Elk]

Well here is how it arrived from UPS:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/Black_Elk/Just%20Checking/Alans45-1.jpg

Here are most of the markings:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/Black_Elk/Just%20Checking/Alans45-3.jpg

Most of what arrived:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/Black_Elk/Just%20Checking/Alans45-2.jpg

Here are the bothersome Parts; The Spring is open on both ends:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s277/Black_Elk/Just%20Checking/Alans45-4.jpg

It has been many years since I have dealt with a bushing style 1911 but I never had any trouble with the binding before. Notice the slide says 455?

Any ideas?

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: you can not see the Government Model and W s/n in the pic so I will replace later. sorry.

[John]

That spring surely needs to be replaced.

[pdoppenheim]

Duck Ryder, thanks.

Black Elk: The spring is shot. With no closed end it looks like somebody cut a few coils off of a too long spring. Get a 16# Gov spring. It will have a tight end that you have to force onto the guide rod. A spring should not be wavy like the one in the picture. I wonder if it was really a Gov spring.

Note that not all plugs will have the indentation that necessitates screwing the spring into the plug. In either event, make sure the spring is seated all the way into the plug.

Couldn't read anything on the slide. Photo out of focus. I would have to see the 455 to understand the marking. There is no .455 caliber 1911 that I know of. The barrel should be marked .45 somewhere. It clearly is a 1911

Let us know.

[gottripletsNC]

Unless my eyes decieve me, that is a 1911, not an A1, and I think, but correct me OD* if I am wrong, and probably am. But I think some of the early 1911's were retro'd to 455 webeley for the British Versions.

As for the spring, I'd expect that it is shot by the way it looks crooked up.

[Iron bottom]

I have a 1911 and I could hear and feel the spring crunching while slowly cycling. It was hitting the slide at the rear of the recoil spring plug tunnel. It was kinking up, and I know this because the spring (new pistol and new spring) looked a lot like the one in the pics. I am certain springs do not stack too straight, or this would not have occured. I have also seen a 1911 cut away model and that spring was kinked also. The taper on the front of a short guide rod tells me that spring is kinking or that guide rod is moving around. A full length guide rod (two piece) cured my problem. Now when I drop the front half of the full length guide rod in the pistol, it never goes in smoothly. This again tells me the recoil spring is kinked.

A full length guide rod may accelerate the wear on the recoil spring, but probably not as much as rubbing on the inside of that slide. I fully believe a full length guide rod is a better system. My two cents. :D Fire at will, Gentlemen.

[Black Elk]

...some of the early 1911's were ...455 webeley for the British ....

That is the information I have been able to retrieve and the serial numbers it in the 1918-1919 era. of export to Britain. The Bbl seems to be a replacement .45ACP, not sure on the other parts.

Yes a straight spring would keep it's alignment longer, giving the plunger time to overlap the guide rod; thereby not allowing the guide rod to impact with lip on the plunger.

Thank you all for your help in this matter.
Any way to tell if it will function with 'only' a spring replacement? Or do you think I should pick up some more parts for him? Like a plunger at least?

Also I was wondering about the finish but you probably can not see that very well either so I will get to those other pics asap but a little later.

[gottripletsNC]

Looks like old Colt hot blue, I expect it might polish up nicely, is he wanting to sell it lol.

As for the spring, go with a 16# spring and see how she does, if there is noticeable damage to something I would replace it, but otherwise I'd just change the spring.

[Lazarus]

Usually, springs that look like that have been operated in coil bind. The results are damage to the spring and severe shortening of spring life...other side effects are possible short stroking, difficulty ejecting and/or feeding. It is easy to measure: just remove the spring and confirm that the slide has full rearward movement. Put a pencil mark on the slide/frame when fully rearward. Insert spring and see if your pencil mark still lines up. If coil binding is present, you must replace the spring and trim one coil at a time until the spring no longer binds. Let us know what you find.

-Lazarus