Shopping for first Colt

[Atticus]

Greetings from the frozen North! This is my first post here, and I'm very impressed with the informed commentary here. I am planning to buy a pistola in the next few weeks. I want it primarily for self-family defence. I am a Navy veteran, and qualified expert on the M1911A1 back in the 80's, so I'm most familiar with this weapon. I've also always admired it's stopping power, and it's reliability.

I recently visited two local gun shops. The first was probably new, and was practically a back-alley operation. It had two gunsmiths on site, and no new guns - only used, in the cases. The guys there tried to talk me into a Springer, and several modifications, such as smoothing the receiver (could be wrong part name). This is the part where rounds from the magazine enter the barrel. The custom Springer they showed me had a glassy smooth one polished to mirror brightness. They said most 1911s had difficulty cycling rounds without a misfeed unless this mod was done. Especially hollowpoints.

They also thought widening the ejector opening was important to keep spent shell casings from jamming during ejection. They actually told me to consider a revolver for the most reliability in a confrontation.

I have never experienced either of these problems with a M1911, although I did see one jam once when another sailor tried to fire it. (Same guy actually bounced a few bullets off the deck while trying to hit a target 4' off the deck.

After reading many posts here, I'm contemplating a Series 70 repro. I'd appreciate any suggestions you gentlemen and gentlewomen might have for this old salt.

[Hawkmoon]

The "receiver" is the frame (the lower half) of the pistol. I think what they were trying to sell you on was polishing the feed ramp. Sometimes this is helpful, but a mirror-like polish is not necessary, and most 1911s being sold today don't need to have the ramp polished. In fact, overly energetic "polishing" may do more harm than good.

Lowering the opening on the ejection port isn't performed so much for reliability as to reduce dents in the brass. If you reload, this is important. If you don't reload, it isn't a factor. In fact, except for the GI replica model I think all Sprinfields come with lowered ejection ports, and if the geniuses at the gun shop weren't showing you a Mil-Spec model (which already has most of the bells and whistles they seemed to be talking about) they weren't out to help you.

A Series 70 reproduction will be closest to what you carried in the military. However, if budget is a factor, a 1991 Government or Commander is also a fine pistol, externally the same in aapearance and handling to what you are accustomed to, and for less money than the Series 70. A 1991 will have a Series 80 firing pin safety, but that's only a problem if you want it to be. In a few jurisdictions, you would not be allowed to buy the Series 70 repro specifically because it doesn't have a firing pin safety.

[Hunter]

Welcome to the forum. I can tell you that the information that the "gunsmith" (I am using that term very loosely in this application) is incorrect on both accounts. Most quality Government Models will feed JHP without fail and if the extractor and ejector in are specs there should be no ejection issues. The lowered ejection port is just a measure of insurance in one or both parts become worn or out of tune. I cannot remember any of my small collection of Colt Government Models every chocking on anything from semi wad cutters to ball rounds, all are factory but 1. I believe they were trying to sell you something you do not need.
The part of the Government Model you are speaking about is more commonly know as the frame (but more correctly know as the receiver).
I do not have a Series 70 Repo but I have a few friends that do (many post here) and I understand the Repo to be an excellent Colt. I believe if you stick with Colt in any form of Government Model you will be good to go.
I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps and made many friends in the Navy.

[JustinTime]

They said most 1911s had difficulty cycling rounds without a misfeed unless this mod was done. Especially hollowpoints.

I'm sorry you were told that misguided hogwash.

+1 to what both Hawk and Hunter have said.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Atticus,
Welcome to the forum. We're all glad to have you join us. :)
I agree with what Hawkmoon, Hunter, and Justin posted. Should you need a little nudge toward the MkIV/Series 70 Colts of current production, here you go................
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_0898.jpg

[Hunter]

Slim I hate to admit this but I had you (and that picture) in mind when I posted about friends who have the Series 70 repo here. OD has a couple good pictures as well.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Thanks Hunter. :)
OD does indeed have some good photos.
As do you!

(Sorry, Atticus. Side tracked because of "mutual admiration society" meeting. :D :D :D

[Hunter]

Yall got me beat out in picture taking skill. I believe that picture you got aught to be on the Colt web site. That is a good promotion for the Series 70 repo.

[elijdub]

Atticus, +1 here too! I'm adding my two cents in an effort to add to the number of voices telling you, nicely, that those two "gunsmiths" should find a new trade! While there are some companies that do pollish the feed ramp (Kimber for one...if there are misfeed issues and you send back your gun) and "lower and flare the ejection port" (as a custom feature here), neither are necessary for the proper operation of the 1911. Colt's, especially those still being built to near-original specs, were designed that way for a reason...because they work! ...and have functioned flawlessly for almost a century without those "addtions"! I own a Kimber, but the next several guns i buy will be Colts.
Now, someday i may buy a basic model Colt and have it sent to a custom shop like Yost-bonitz and have some "reliability upgrades" done. Most of the features they offer are just "icing on the cake" as far as i'm concerned though. A Colt will work just fine right out of the box...and if EVER there is ANY problem, you can send it back for a FULL repair or replacement. What's interesting though is that i've spent time on many other area of the forum, and many other maunfacturers are having a percentage of their guns sent back from time to time (as is to be expected)....but i don't see that with Colts. I'm sure it happens, but not as often. That attests to their quality control.
Anyhow, i'll stop my rant...with apologies for "going-on" about this. I just wanted to be another voice recommeding a Colt.
I like the series 70 repro alot! I'm partial to Commanders myself...just a personal thing...so i'll probably look for a series 70 Commander as my next gun.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Eli

[OD*]

I believe that picture you got aught to be on the Colt web site.
Amen, Hunter. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Slim has a number of great looking photos.

[Atticus]

Thanks gents!, for all the encouragement. I personally felt these guys were feeding me a line. Especially when the price they quoted me for all the upgrades plus the Springfield Arms 1911 was equal to the price I could get a genuine Colt for. I think, as I mentioned, that they are a new shop, and probably speciallize in custom smithing but not yet in inventory sales. I'll stay away from them in the future.

The second shop I've been to was much nicer. Big place with lots of hunting gear, an indoor range (lead-free) and two long walls filled with racks of rifles and pistols. I saw a couple of Series 70s and some of the other government models in the case (don't know whether they were repro or current production). Mainly I want the improved accuracy of the heavier barrel in the Series 70, but don't want the collet bushing.

The price tag there on the Series 70 blue Colt was about $950.

[arjay]

Atticus,shop around.I found a series 70 repro for $800 nib.It's well fitted and accurate.The first 1911 I've bought that I won't fiddle with.I like it just the way it is and it looks nice next to the gold cup and commander :D

[elijdub]

...and if you haven't done so already, i've had good luck with gunsamerica(dot)com.
just bought a WWI repro from there two weeks ago, and if the misses will allow it i may just buy another!!

[daveohno]

If you want a new Colt, the Special Combat Government is a very slick new pistol. They are smooth and the trigger is outstanding out of the box.

I would also look at a Series 70 Repro with the model "O" package on it and you'd have a great carry pistol.

[Atticus]

Atticus,
Welcome to the forum. We're all glad to have you join us. :)
I agree with what Hawkmoon, Hunter, and Justin posted. Should you need a little nudge toward the MkIV/Series 70 Colts of current production, here you go................
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_0898.jpg

Rio Vista Slim, That is a great shot of two very nice pieces. I don't need much pushing at this point, but it's always nice to see a bit of the future!

[elijdub]

I would also look at a Series 70 Repro with the model "O" package on it and you'd have a great carry pistol.

Would you mind clarifying this...the addition of the "O" package on a Colt. I've been reading about this on the forum lately and do not understand what it means.
thanks

[OD*]

Model O package (from the Colt catalog);
Novak rear sight
Dovetail front sight
Upswept grip safety
Dehorned

Most of the Model O packages I have seen also had gotten a new trigger.

[elijdub]

Thanks OD...

[OD*]

You're welcome sir. ;)

[Atticus]

Well, I finally got the $ together to finally buy my piece. I visited a different shop today and got a price quote of $900 for a Repro Series 70. I've never bought a gun before, so I thought I might go for it. The only drawback is that this shop doesn't have any 70's in stock and has to order.

Anyone have any final pointers for me? I think I'm pretty settled on the Series 70, for the accuracy, the blueing, the wooden grips and the similarity to the 1911s I used in the Navy. I also understand that the collette bushing is not being produced any more. Hope I'm not suffering from any misconceptions here.

[dakota1911]

The Brazilian Imbels (or Springers) are a good gun. It is just that for a little more money you can get a Colt 1911. If you are limited on money I would suggest buying an older Colt than a new Imbel.

[bbeard]

Try Buds gun shop online. He has very good pricing and if he doesn't have it in stock he will get it if it's available.

[Oberleutnant]

Atticus,

You are correct, the reissue Series 70s do not use the collet bushing. The sights are also a bit better on the new S70s than the GI pistols you qualified with back in your Navy days.

Overall, I have been extremely happy with mine. The blueing is beautiful, the fit is excellent, and she was extremely accurate right out of that nice blue Custom Shop box. No mods at all, other than trying a couple of different pairs of grips out. I've been keeping a set of the old factory medallion grips on her because I'm old fashioned that way. But, the Chip McCormick grips that came on her were really nice looking too.

Good luck with your purchase. Let us know how you do and don't forget to post some pictures and a range report when the time comes.

[Atticus]

As I said earlier, this is my first gun purchase ever. I thought it would be good to start on the right foot with a local dealer. I know I can get this online for about $800, but I would have to pay $30 to $100 in transfer fees anyway. I think there's some value in supporting the local shop, as long as I'm not being robbed. To me, $50-$70 dollars extra is not a huge difference.

I think the blueing is what makes this really stand out from the 1991's for me.

[cameroni]

That is a bold name(like the guy in "To Kill a Mockingbird").

Most of the gentlemen(waiting to hear from Joni Lynn) that have already posted here shoot a lot;there's no "range" around where I'm at for pistols(lots for skeet);so I am a rare, backwoods,bowling-pin plinker and go shooting enough to hit the targets sometimes. ... . .. .

Reliability means everything to me in a pistol.

The onliest 1911s I have are Colts(2 OACPs I shoot and a Series '70 Gold Cup that is so purdy that in the 2 decades I've owned it I cannot bring myself to shoot it :o

I'm SO glad Colt is making the Series '70 Repro. God willing I'll have a blue one for a shooter someday;then I may feel better about my GC safe-queen!?

BUT right now I'm obsessed with getting my mitts on a Colt "New Agent" and wringing it out.

For ANYTHING regarding 1911s,you've come to the right place! There is more to learn here on this forum than my old head can soak up.

Regards,

mike

[sprice1973]

Series 70 Reproduction is one fine looking Colt,that would make an excellent first gun!

[Atticus]

Well, today I visited the shop from yesterday, and placed an order for a Colt Series 70 Repro with blue finish. I will be able to pick it up on Friday. I'm really looking forward to this. I'll let you all know when I have it in hand, and can put it down long enough to log in!

[Atticus]

Cameroni, One of the reasons I picked "Atticus" as my screen name is that Atticus Finch was a crack shot, but his kids didn't know it. Now I'm far from a crack shot, but I did manage to qualify "expert" on both the .45 and the M-16 while in the Navy.

I'm really looking forward to standing up at the range and once again firing an M1911. I'm also looking forward to handling and firing my own sidearm. Something I've always wanted. Hopefully I can still hit the side of a barn! :)

[Atticus]

Picked up my Colt Series 70 pistol yesterday evening. It's not that I was particularly patient, I was just out of town all weekend! I don't have a digital camera, so I can't post pics yet. I got to handle a few other Colts, including a series 80 and an officer's model of another type (not 1911) while in the shop, but this one is MUCH nicer. The dealer was impressed with it too and said he was glad to see Colt putting out such a fine product after such a long time.

Mine is # 71B4xxx

I also bought a cleaning kit, headphones, a plastic case and some ammo. The phones are Peltor Bull's Eye 9 25 NRR. The ammo is American ball ammo. I couldn't get an opinion in the shop as to what's most reliable. The cleaning kit is a Hoppe's No. 9 .44/.45 caliber kit.

I'm wide open to suggestions or opinions on the accessories/ammo I bought. I intend to take this gun to the range, but want the most reliable and accurate rounds available.

[Oberleutnant]

Atticus,

Congrats on the new pistol. I've had a ball with mine so far, #71B19XX. I think the reissue '70s are really sharp looking, very well fitted, and mine has been extremely accurate and reliable. I don't have to go far to see one, but I still want you to post a photo or two for us when you get the chance.

As far as accessories, I think you're doing just fine. As long as the headphones do their job and are comfortable, you're in good shape there. Brand isn't all that important in my opinion as long as you choose a reputable one. I use Hoppe's products regularly and I imagine their cleaning kit is just fine as well. My kit is actually the same basic Outer's kit I've had for over 20 years just with Hoppe's solvent, Remington oil, Tetra grease, new brushes, etc. substituted for the original contents as they've run out or worn out. Plus an old toothbrush and rag. There are many newer cleaning/care products out there and I'm sure others will tell you about them. I've always been fine with the basics.

I will recommend you purchase an additional magazine or three. You'll thank me when you get out on the range and don't have to stop to reload the same mag after every 7 rounds. Here you should go for quality and there are many opinions on the best brands. I've got several standard Colt factory mags (Checkmate) with flat dimpled followers and they've never let me down. I've tried some of the cheap "mil surp" ones with rounded followers as well and they also function, but functioned better with new springs. A friend and fellow 1911 enthusiast I've known for 15 years or so likes the Metalform magazines best. Wilson makes some good mags, too. Lots of opinions on the best depending on who you ask!

As far as ammo goes, my pistol has been accurate and dependable with anything I've put through it. Lately, I've been shooting Remington UMC 230 gr FMJ simply because it's been on sale. On my last visit to the range a week or so ago, the friend I was shooting with brought some pricey Italian ammo and my S70 didn't shoot noticeably different with it. The pistol was accurate with both and no jams or other problems with feeding or ejection. I keep a magazine of Golden Saber hollow points on hand for personal defense though. I also like running it for target practice from time to time. It makes a nice muzzle flash, too. I feel like I need the sound effects man from "Dirty Harry" on hand to edit in the Eastwood Magnum noise every time I squeeze the trigger! Try a couple of different brands and styles of ammo and see how your pistol does with each.

Have fun with it, be careful, and don't forget to let us know how she performs on the range.

[Icepick15]

Atticus,

Congratulations on the purchase of your first Colt. I say "first" because...well...you'll figure it out. Search the Forum. Look for "Coltitis", "OCD" (Obsessive Coltpulsive Disorder), and "I just bought another Colt".

[Atticus]

Atticus,
Welcome to the forum. We're all glad to have you join us. :)
I agree with what Hawkmoon, Hunter, and Justin posted. Should you need a little nudge toward the MkIV/Series 70 Colts of current production, here you go................
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_0898.jpg
Rio Vista Slim, I was looking over the thread again, and I noticed that you've got the Colt medallion on the grips of both your '70s. Mine came with the rosewood grips, but no medallions. Are yours some replacement grips, or should my Series 70 repro have had them too?

[OD*]

should my Series 70 repro have had them too?
No sir, mine had the double diamonds also, you can find the medallion stocks here; http://www.cdnninvestments.com/1911.html

[Hawkmoon]

I also bought a cleaning kit, headphones, a plastic case and some ammo. The phones are Peltor Bull's Eye 9 25 NRR. The ammo is American ball ammo. I couldn't get an opinion in the shop as to what's most reliable. The cleaning kit is a Hoppe's No. 9 .44/.45 caliber kit.
Congratulations on your new Series 70. I think you'll enjoy it for a long time.

I'm afraid, however, that the shop didn't do you any favors on ammo. American (also referred to often as Amerc or A-merc) is the worst [insert unprintable expletive of choice] junk out there. The brass is generally out of spec and causes all manner of failures to feed. Frankly, the Winchester "white box" 100-round bulk pack from Wal-Mart is a much better deal. The Winchester is generally reliable and feeds okay.

If you haven't already shot some of the A-merc I recommend that you return it and ask to exchange it for something else. ANYTHING else.

[vikz]

so guys i am kinda considering this topic too, and my budget is probably 600 is there any way i can own a colt with this budget??i like the xse series a lot..any suggestions..

[dakota1911]

I would second what Hawk said in the early parts of the thread. Mod 70s are great but if your budget does not allow that then go with one of the newer pistols. The Series-80 firing pin block is not that big of a deal, and I think the most robust of firing pin blocks for the 1911. You will curse it when you first detail strip the pistol. Grumble at it the second time, and after that it is just a few extra parts to deal with. And if you don't want to deal with them then buy the 70s Repro.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Atticus,
As OD* said, the Series 70 current production guns come with the rosewood double diamond stocks that you received on your pistol. I have bought medallion stocks from CDNNNo sir, mine had the double diamonds also, you can find the medallion stocks here; http://www.cdnninvestments.com/1911.html, and have been very pleased with them.

The ones on my two Series 70 pistols were acquired from Ajax Grips. The link can be found under "Grips" on the Home Page. Those were more expensive than the CDNN stocks, but the CDNN stocks are very well made, and quite attractive.

(I went with Ajax because at the time of my order, the medallion stocks were unavailable from CDNN. I am satisfied with the Ajax grips as well.)

[Ogie]

Atticus,
Welcome to the forum. We're all glad to have you join us. :)
I agree with what Hawkmoon, Hunter, and Justin posted. Should you need a little nudge toward the MkIV/Series 70 Colts of current production, here you go................
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_0898.jpg


I really like these grips! I used to have a Colt Series 70 that I purchased in the late 1970s. I am trying to remember the grip material. Was it Walnut? I will be purchasing a new Colt Series 70 repro in stainless in the near future and I am thinking about changing out the grips to what I remember the old ones looked like, with the medallions. The ones in your picture seem to be pretty close. Does the Colt custom shop make grips with the medallions? Thank you.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Ogie
Thank you for your complimentary words. :o
The stocks pictured on my guns were purchased from Ajax Grips.
http://www.ajaxgrips.com/
You are correct, both sets are laminated walnut. The stainless model has a silver Rampant Colt medallion, while the blued model sports a gold medallion.

[Ogie]

Rio Vista Slim:

Thank you for your response.

To my knowledge there were no stainless model Colts in 1977 or 1978, at least not in the 1911 models. The silver medalllions look like what I would like to order for my stainless Government model. Thanks again.

[Poohgyrr]

Congrats on your Colt and may it give you years of BIG smiles..

[Ogie]

Congrats on your Colt and may it give you years of BIG smiles..

Thank you very much!

[elijdub]

so guys i am kinda considering this topic too, and my budget is probably 600 is there any way i can own a colt with this budget??i like the xse series a lot..any suggestions..
Vikz, There are several Colts that you could buy "lightly used" (if you don't mind....i sure don't!) within your budget. The 1991 series 80's can be had NEW for not much more than you're dealin' with, as can several others. If i had 600 clams to throw down on a Colt, i'd buy an 04691: Blue 1991 Commander.
Happy hunting!

[Rio Vista Slim]

Rio Vista Slim:

Thank you for your response.

To my knowledge there were no stainless model Colts in 1977 or 1978, at least not in the 1911 models. The silver medalllions look like what I would like to order for my stainless Government model. Thanks again.
You are correct in your statement about stainless steel model Colts. If memory serves, they began using stainless steel sometime in the early 1980s.

For What It's Worth:
The gold medallion was "staked" (perhaps "flared" is a better description) on the backside of the stocks, but the silver colored ones weren't. Some "Gorilla Glue" solved the problem of those trying to depart from the stocks.

[OD*]

You're correct Slim, there were no Series 70s in STS.
IIRC, it was introduced in 1984 (I have one from '84).