New NRM Government - FTF

[zenner22]

Finally took my stainless NRM Government to the range. Fired about 75 rounds through it, different types of ball ammo. I liked the trigger, accuracy seemed good although I wasn't really testing for that first time out. I ended up with 4 failures to feed however.

This occurred after about 40 rounds and only failed to feed on stripping the first round off 2 different known good magazines (ACT and MecGar, which functioned fine in the ORM Govt I also took out that day). One one of the times I pocketed the jammed round and the second round failed as well. The third round fed fine. I had no problems during firing, only in the first round, this while either slingshotting it or using the slide release.

I've had the gun for a couple months and I'm not certain if I field stripped and cleaned it before I took it to the range. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't although it has never caused a problem before. When I field stripped and cleaned it today everything looked ok to me, nothing stood out that could be a problem.

I'm assuming this is just a product of breaking in a new gun but this behaviour is unlike the three other new Colts I purchased last year, all of which functioned without a hitch out of the box. Do I have anything to be paranoid about here, or do you think just shooting a couple hundred more rounds through it will clear up the problem?

[Hunter]

Your Colt should not need a break in period. Are you shooting factory loaded rounds?
When you say failure to feed is it a 3 point jam or FTRTB?

[zenner22]

They were factory round nose loads. Mag Tech was one brand, I can't recall right now what the other brand was. The round would get stuck at an angle partway into the chamber. Not sure what your terms 3 point and FTRTB mean?

[Hunter]

That sounds like a 3 point jam where the nose of the bullet jams against the top of the chamber.
Check out this link from Tuner. I have referred to it several times for help. Thanks Gunny.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=26853

[zenner22]

Thanks for the info, Hunter! I was thinking of taking it to the range one more time to see if the problem irons itself out. Will shooting it more make a difference or should I consider sending it back for repair?

[Hunter]

Do you have any more magazines? If I were you I would take a few different magazines (if you have them or the factory magazines should be fine). Give her another try and see what happens. If it locks up once I would send it back to Colt. Colt Government Models work 100% out the box I promise.

[John]

That's not a 3-point jam (it could be, but we can't tell at this moment) or a FTF. It's a failure to return to battery and in order to diagnoze it properly we need to know the exact position of the feeding round when the stoppage occured. Where was the nose of the round and where was the rim of the round? Had the rim entered under the extractor claw or is it still below it? Can the round be chambered by pushing the rear of the slide?

Details please!

[jeff1124]

Magazine problems or simply lack of proper lubrication, with a possibility of extractor problems thrown in for good measure! Close as I can guess without a better description.
Strip it, clean it and lube it before the next try. And while you're at it do the extractor tuning as described in the tech section. +1 on Hunter's suggestion of a different Mag or 2, but at least keep track of what mags work and which ones have problems. If you have a camera, take it with as well! Good luck! :)

[zenner22]

I'm not leaning towards magazine problems at this point. It happened with two different brands of magazines that work fine in other pistols.

I need to see if I can duplicate the problem to deliver a more accurate description of what happened. Some of the details being asked I don't know the answer to, I'll pay closer attention. When it happened I did push the back of the slide to see if it would travel forward, but it did not.

Since it only happens on the first round off the magazine, I'll see if I can duplicate this at home. If so I'll be more careful in my observations. I have field stripped, cleaned and lubed it.

Thanks for the assistance, guys!

[zenner22]

Ok I got it to jam off the first round again. The nose of the bullet is completely in the chamber. It looks like the extractor has hooked the rim of the cartridge. The cartridge is at an upward angle. The slide did not budge when I pushed it forward. The magazine fell freely when ejected. The pistol was freshly stripped and cleaned yesterday.

I tried to take some pics, I'll see if any came out good enough (and see if I can't figure out how to post them) later on tonight.

What sort of problem would this indicate?

[OD*]

Sounds like a tight extractor.

[Joni Lynn]

Good luck with your Colt. I bought the same model and it had some problems so I sent it back to Colt and it came back running great! If it doesn't clear up to your satisfaction send it back.

[Hersh]

Sounds like a tight extractor.

I agree. Typically mag related feed problems show up on the last round in the mag.

[zenner22]

I managed to do it with three different magazines, including the factory provided one. It took three tries for it to fail to feed with the factory mag. I think I might be planning to send it back to Colt. This pistol also had rust spots underneath both grip panels that I'd decided to live with. But I might as well have them take care of that too while it's there.

Thanks for all the help, everybody!

[John]

Before you pack it and ship it to Colt, please do the Extractor test as it is described in the article about Extractor Tuning in the Technical issues forum. Come back to us.

[zenner22]

Ok I did the extractor test. Took the slide off, slipped a live round under the extractor, shook it around a bit. The round wobbled about but it stayed attached (except upside down, of course).

Assuming I did the test correctly, does this mean the extractor is ok? And if so, what could the trouble be?

[John]

LoRL, you should hold the slide upside down, you should hold it the way it is on the gun, with the ejection port up. Anyway, it doesn't seem that your extractor is too tight.

Check the followings:

- make sure there are no burrs or scratches on the breechface.
- make sure there is no dirt inside the barrel's chamber and that it is clean without burrs.
- If possible show us a picture of the pistol when the jam occurs from the ejection port.
- Remove the slide from the pistol and remove the barrel from the slide. Then put the barrel on the frame and insert the slide release in its normal position. Push the barrel backwards and down so that its rear end rests on the frame. Hold it there and take a picture.

Finally what mags are you using? Are they 7-rounders? 8-rounders? What's the profile of the lips?

[1911Tuner]

When it happened I did push the back of the slide to see if it would travel forward, but it did not.


The cartridge is at an upward angle. The slide did not budge when I pushed it forward.

Clews! It's a 3-Point Jam. Sometimes Colt's new "Dimple Throat" works well...and sometimes it doesn't.

Cheers

[John]

Johnny, that's a 3-point jam all-right. The question is if it can be rectified with some minor surgery or will it require a trip back to Hartford. Maybe a hybrid magazine can cure the problem?

[zenner22]

The problem has happened with 8 round ACT and MecGar magazines as well as with the factory provided Colt 7 rounder.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Clews! It's a 3-Point Jam. Sometimes Colt's new "Dimple Throat" works well...and sometimes it doesn't.

Cheers
zenner22,
1911Tuner forgot more (this morning ;) ) than I will ever know about the 1911. Check out the thread in the magazine section of the forum to see whether your factory mag falls into the hybrid category, as John suggested.
It just might be the barrel, as Tuner stated.
If so, a trip back to Hartford should make all your woes disappear.

[1911Tuner]

If so, a trip back to Hartford should make all your woes disappear.

Maybe...maybe not. Most Colt feed ramps are within-spec, so the problem is likely with the barrel ramp. Since the warranty shop probably ain't gonna alter that "New and Improved" barrel ramp...they'll probably polish everything, send it back, and hope for the best.

About one in five of those "Dimpled" barrel ramps requires recutting to the more conventional shape so that they'll provide the necessary clearance for the bullet nose.
Once that's done, the newer Colts generally start to feed like green grease through a
goose.

[zenner22]

About one in five of those "Dimpled" barrel ramps requires recutting to the more conventional shape so that they'll provide the necessary clearance for the bullet nose.
Once that's done, the newer Colts generally start to feed like green grease through a
goose.

Wait, you're not saying one in five of Colt's barrels are bad are you? I've heard only positive things about the dimpled barrels and had good luck myself with them (except for this one, of course). One in five seems like an awful lot of barrels that would need to be sent back, if I'm understanding you right.

[1911Tuner]

Wait, you're not saying one in five of Colt's barrels are bad are you?


Nope. I'm saying that one in five don't work as well as they should. Probably more of a tolerance stack issue than anything else. The same barrel might drop into another frame and slide and work fine...or not.

[zenner22]

Ah, ok thanks! As always, I learn a lot from you folks here!