Series 70's Replica "Blemishes"

[2Barrels]

I went to order that Series 70 Replica from Bud's (see this thread for background http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=30307) and wisely asked them to look it over with a "fine toothed comb." My son had a bad experience recently with a new XSE that came with several dings on the dust cover; bad enough that he'll eventually ask Colt to fix them whenever he sends the gun to them for perhaps a parts change. My XSE too came with some minor finish flaws but nothing like his, so I made sure to have it inspected before I "pulled the trigger" on the purchase. Please believe me that this isn't a "slam Colt quality" thread; on the contrary I have developed a bad case of Coltitis (as someone stated in the aforementioned thread) and after all did go to buy my second Colt 1911 in less than 4 months!!

So Bud's got back to me (great service BTW, their person Gurney there really looked it over with white gloves) and said that there are three issues:
1) "Gash" on the edge of the recoil spring plunger, perhaps caused by a tool.
2) Machine marks on the rim of the barrel bushing; essentially rough edges.
3) Most concerning, the grip safety looks like, according to Gurney, "clay in which someone took a pin and poked a hole bunch of holes."
In fact Gurney said that they probably will move this piece to the retail counter (vs. online inventory) so it doesn't get shipped to someone who hasn't had a chance to see it.

Questions:
1) Are these flaws normal? In other words, will I have to look long and hard to find a non-custom shop gun that is perfect and free of minor flaws in the finish?
2) Are these parts for the most part replaceable? FYI I called Colt to ask about the plunger (which at the time was the only flaw I knew about) and customer service there said they'd gladly send me a replacement BUT didn't think they kept parts on hand for the Series 70 replicas. They're getting back to me and when they do I plan to ask them about the bushing and grip safety as well.

OK real question, should I just keep looking vs. going through the hassle of returning the gun to Colt for parts replacement (which I guess is really answered by answers to question #1 above). THANKS.

[OD*]

1) Are these flaws normal?
No sir.

2) Are these parts for the most part replaceable?
Yes, although I'm not clear on what you are referring to as a "recoil spring plunger"?

Which part are you meaning?
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/modelO_govt.asp

[clughog]

I'd definitely pass on that one! It's hard to believe it passed Colt's quality checks. Brilliant on your part to ask them to check!

[Joni Lynn]

I don't think those are typical. It's always nice to see and handle the gun prior to actually owning it though.

[dakota1911]

I buy "off the rack" also when I can. The two Colts I ordered were flawless when I got hold of them with my then nail bitten fingers. Still, I would send this guy back to Colt if it bothers you. How does it shoot by the way? Just curious.

[2Barrels]

Yes, although I'm not clear on what you are referring to as a "recoil spring plunger"?

Which part are you meaning?
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/modelO_govt.aspExcuse me, the part to which I'm referring is actually called the recoil spring plug, not plunger. :o

I should have been clearer, but I was kind of burned out after writing that long post. What I meant to ask is whether those parts are drop-in replacements. What I was thinking was in that case, and if Colt had the parts available, I may buy the gun and ask Colt to send replacement parts to me. I'm fairly certain that the plug is, but the bushing and grip safety are what I am unsure of. Quite honestly though, while I field strip a 1911 quite expertly :D , I'm not sure I'd want to learn how to drop-in a grip safety on a new one. In that case, I'd probably send it back to Colt, but like some of you have implied, why bother if better ones can be easily found.

Thanks.

[2Barrels]

I buy "off the rack" also when I can. The two Colts I ordered were flawless when I got hold of them with my then nail bitten fingers. Still, I would send this guy back to Colt if it bothers you. How does it shoot by the way? Just curious.
Haven't bought it yet; just had the online dealer inspect it for me.

I agree, ideally I would prefer to support the LGS's but none around my small NC town have Colt's on the shelf, so they'd have to be ordered sight unseen anyway. Quite honestly though, our couple of LGS's are not just a few $$ higher than the online guys, they're hundreds higher. The better gun shows with vendors that stock and show Colts take place in a city about an hour from me and are not scheduled again until fall.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Gents,

1) "Gash" on the edge of the recoil spring plunger, perhaps caused by a tool.

Since Colt is one of few manufacturers to place an "indent" on the recoil spring plug (to hold the plug to the spring during disassembly and reassembly), is it possible that "Gurney" saw this, and commented on it?

[OD*]

That very well could be Slim, a lot of people aren't familiar with the old style caps.

[OD*]

Excuse me, the part to which I'm referring is actually called the recoil spring plug, not plunger. :o

I should have been clearer, but I was kind of burned out after writing that long post. What I meant to ask is whether those parts are drop-in replacements. What I was thinking was in that case, and if Colt had the parts available, I may buy the gun and ask Colt to send replacement parts to me. I'm fairly certain that the plug is, but the bushing and grip safety are what I am unsure of. Quite honestly though, while I field strip a 1911 quite expertly :D , I'm not sure I'd want to learn how to drop-in a grip safety on a new one. In that case, I'd probably send it back to Colt, but like some of you have implied, why bother if better ones can be easily found.

Thanks.
If you can detail strip a 1911, you should be able to replace the needed (factory) parts yourself. I think I would look for another pistol or ask Bud's to call you when the next one comes in.

[2Barrels]

If you can detail strip a 1911, you should be able to replace the needed (factory) parts yourself. I think I would look for another pistol or ask Bud's to call you when the next one comes in.
Don't know about detail strip. :scared: What I do is everything outside of the frame.

Bud's says based on volume of orders/inquiries they can't do that.

Thanks.

[2Barrels]

Gents,
Since Colt is one of few manufacturers to place an "indent" on the recoil spring plug (to hold the plug to the spring during disassembly and reassembly), is it possible that "Gurney" saw this, and commented on it?
Hmm, nice catch (although news to me based on my knowledge level). My XSE is at Colt as we speak having a few mods done otherwise I'd look at it to see what you mean. Although, the grip safety is the piece that really concerns me.

Thanks.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Hmm, nice catch (although news to me based on my knowledge level). My XSE is at Colt as we speak having a few mods done otherwise I'd look at it to see what you mean. Although, the grip safety is the piece that really concerns me.

Thanks.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_1774.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_1771.jpg
The first photo shows the recoil spring plug from my XSE LW Commander.
The second photo is a close-up of the indent that holds the recoil spring and plug together.

Just so you will know what I was talking about. :D

[2Barrels]

Thank you Slim. However Gurney described something different. According to him the "gash" (his word) is clearly visible from the external view of the gun, and he said it's on the "rim" of the "checkered" surface. At first he thought someone attempted to slide the bushing into place before the plug was depressed. But upon further inspection he said it looks like a machine tool mark or cut. Nice photography by the way. ;)

[Hawkmoon]

The recoil spring plug is definitely a drop-in part. Since a Series 70 isn't sold as a "match grade" pistol, I would expect (but not guarantee) that the barrel bushing would also be a drop-in replacement. The grip safety might just drop in, but probably would require some minor fitting.

If the pistol were a WW1 reissue, I'd take it and then see about getting the parts replaced. Since there Series 70 reproduction is a standard catalog item rather than a limited production item (albeit still a Custom Shop production) you shouldn't have any trouble finding another one. However, you might or might not match or beat Bud's price.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Thank you Slim. However Gurney described something different. According to him the "gash" (his word) is clearly visible from the external view of the gun, and he said it's on the "rim" of the "checkered" surface. At first he thought someone attempted to slide the bushing into place before the plug was depressed. But upon further inspection he said it looks like a machine tool mark or cut.
I imagine the guys at Bud's pretty well know what they are looking at on any pistol, but I posted the photos for those who might not have seen this type of recoil spring plug. Many of the XSE-type pistols are coming out of the factory with full length guide rods, so I consider myself fortunate in getting one with a "standard" set-up.

Nice photography by the way. ;)
Thank you! :)

[JustinTime]

Thats too bad. If you don't know how to change the parts I'd definately wait until they get a better one.

[Chesster]

I have had a few NIB guns come in that had a blemish or two. Some I would attribute to the factory. Sometimes, I got the impression there were a few hands that played with these guns between the factory and the end consumer.

[2Barrels]

One more thing I keep forgetting to ask. Gurney at Bud's mentioned this and it's a good point. Recall his description of the grip safety..."the grip safety looks like clay in which someone took a pin and poked a bunch of holes."

As Gurney said, it looks to be a "bad casting." But, aren't all the Colt parts machined and not MIM? The description of it indeed sounds like a cast part that had a lot of air bubbles. ??

[OD*]

Thumb safety, grip safety and mag catch are cast (not MIM) on the Colt's.

[2Barrels]

Thumb safety, grip safety and mag catch are cast (not MIM) on the Colt's.
The knowledge and experience of the fine folks on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Thanks to all.

[OD*]

There is some question as to whether the magazine catch is now cast or MIM. John, our host here at M1911.ORG and Hawkmoon, recently toured the Colt factory and were told the mag catch was in fact MIM. The latest Colt pistols I currently own are from 2005 and the mag catches are in fact cast, as far as I can tell.

[clughog]

One more thing I keep forgetting to ask. Gurney at Bud's mentioned this and it's a good point. Recall his description of the grip safety..."the grip safety looks like clay in which someone took a pin and poked a bunch of holes."

As Gurney said, it looks to be a "bad casting." But, aren't all the Colt parts machined and not MIM? The description of it indeed sounds like a cast part that had a lot of air bubbles. ??Here's a picture of the grip safety that came on my Colt XSE .45 Stainless Commander...Colt replaced it for me.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/clughog/IMG_0860.jpg

[John]

I would not worry about the recoil spring cap and the grip safety. The first one is easily replaced. The grip safety is also a part which receives no stress, so even if it is a bad cast and has some flaws internally, if it is OK on the outside I won't care. The barrel bushing can be more of a problem, but as Hawkmoon says, this is a production gun, not a custom one, so it should be a drop-in part too. I am not sure what "machine marks" means but I won't worry about that either.

Of course, you should get a discount for these issues, if you were to buy the pistol.

[2Barrels]

Continued thanks go out to you all. I am happy to report that I found another and based upon the dealer's inspection, it sounds perfect! :) Even has nicer grip panels per the verbal description (nice wood grain) vs. the "solid red color" ones on the piece at Bud's.

[clughog]

Sounds great, 2Barrels! Waiting for the pictures!! And, in the "for what it's worth" category, the replacement grip safety Colt sent me for my XSE required a fair amount of fitting--wasn't just a drop in as I had expeceted!