Norincos: Don't Make the Mistake I Did...

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. There was just something about a "Chinese forty-five" that didn't sit right with me; it wasn't anything political. I just figured it was junk.

By the time I found out that I was wrong, they were pretty hard to find and prices were higher...considerably higher. I shot a few of the guns over the years and had seen that they "ran" fine. Finally, I happened to speak with a gunsmith who said that the Norinco 1911's were made of very good steel and were almost always "in spec" with regard to frame holes and such.

Anyway, a while later I ran across one that had been fired but a few times, less than fifty rounds at a decent price. I bought it.

I knew the sights would have to go as the gun hit about 2" high and slightly to the right for me at 15 yards and with my 52-year-old eyes, they were too small.

It became clear that this would be a "project gun."

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid20/p3b5c4bcc04abcd01cc463883c236030e/fdb97f13.jpg
Here it is with some different parts, but the original sights so that you can see the POI vs. POA. It goes through several incantations before winding up in the form it is today.

The pistol's proven utterly reliable with any and all loads tried that are in the 230-gr. @ 850 ft/sec range or 185-gr. @ 950 ft/sec or so. My 5" 1911's are routine sprung at 18.5-lbs using a conventional spring. I'd estimate 3K or so through this one so far.

Most of the changes were done at home. A Pachmayr grip safety that's actually for a Commander works great on the gun. Not so pretty as a fitted one, but I already had all the parts used on this gun. Ed Brown hammer and sear along with a McCormick trigger were added. Some E-nickeled parts like the slide stop, magazine release, safety, and such were added just for looks. They were not "necessary" for function; the gun worked fine as it was. I worked the trigger to a bit under 5-lbs as I do carry this pistol on occassion for "serious purposes."

I did have a gunsmith add a King's Hardballer rear sight and silver solder a serrated ramp to the slide after I'd determined the correct height. He also cleaned up the slide and reblued it for me. When I wear the blue off the frame, I'll add checkering before refinishing...or maybe I'll just stay with the skateboard tape.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pde57961d54a26f53668bcae962ae78b6/fc1e758e.jpg
This is how the lightly modified Norinco 1911 looks today. It works fine with 7 and 8 round magazines, but I normally use 7-rnd magazines in my "serious" pistols; they've just been more reliable for me. Most of my eight's work fine in most of my guns, but the seven's work fine in all of them.

If you run across a Norinco 1911 at around $400 new or less, I'd jump on it particularly if interested in using it as a base or project gun. There is no internal firing pin safety system, just the inertial pin of 1911's past...which suits me fine.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/p5eddbc5bda78f93fceba0978a6fe8943/fc8650df.jpg
I have no complaints with this pistol. It groups well under 2" at 15 yards in slow-fire and handles well at speed. I will not group with an STI or Kimber at 50-yds in most instances, but neither will any shot be outside an average pie plate at that distance. This suffices for my defensive needs.

So far the pistol's been fired with the following ammunition:

200-gr. Hornady XTP
7.2-gr. Unique
Winchester LP Primer
TZZ Case
Average Velocity: 925 ft/sec

Federal 230-gr. Hydrashok JHP
Average Velocity: 836 ft/sec

Speer 230-gr. Gold Dot
Average Velocity: 816 ft/sec

Winchester RA9TA Ranger Talon JHP:
Average Velocity: 841 ft/sec

Remington 230-gr. Golden Saber BJHP:
Average Velocity: 805 ft/sec

Corbon 165-gr. PowRball +P:
Average Velocity: 1220 ft/sec

I've fired Corbon 185-gr. +P JHP as well as some other loads from Glaser, and other companies, but don't yet have chronograph data for them.

My particular pistol appears to have a slow barrel. In quite a few instances, I find that average velocities are roughly 40 ft/sec or so slower than when the same loads from the same box are fired from about any other 5" 1911. This is not a hard-and-fast rule with Norinco 1911's as I chronographed some loads out of other Norinco pistols that have been very comparable with Kimber, Colt, STI, Springfield, etc.

Best.

[Jim V]

I got my first Norinco after I shot my poor old Ithaca to death - 2,000 rounds/week for 8 months of the year for 5 years - and was looking for a inexpensive replacement. Willie had stopped their importation but there were a lot of NIB pistols to be found for a good price. I had my gunsmith order one from one of his suppliers and we were greatly surprised on how well the pistol was made. We both had expected something that was not really up to snuff but by JMB it was better than we had expected and better than one should hope for. Then when I had the MMC rear sight and the Millett dual crimp front sights added we found out how tough the steel was/is.

Since then I've added two more 'Rincos to my supply, #3 shoots the best of the three, the factory barrell had no "push down" and the slide to frame fit was exceptional for a WWII pistol clone, even better than some of the big name makers fiit I've seen since.

But I should not be telling you this, since you may scoop up the Norinco I want to add to the group. Let's see, there are the nickeled ones and I'd like to find a Commander(tm) sized one too, and I need at least one from all the different importers (four in all as far as I know).

[care-less]

Nice pistol and report Mr. Camp! I unfortunatly made the same mistake you did. Figured they were Chinese junk and never even looked at one. Finally found a NIB 5inch model from the collection of a gentleman who had passed away; got it for $380 and figure I got a deal. Of course if I had not been so hidebound, I could have picked up two of them for that price ten years ago! Live and learn (maybe).

[robertbank]

Well your experience sure mirrors mine. I have two as we still can get them up here. My Norinco C has been out to a smith for upgrades and should be back home soon. He is waiting for Novak rear sight and the gun is done. If I can figure out how to transfer a pic to this thread I'll send pics of the two guns. Care-Less nice to see you here! Still banging away out your back door? LOL. Wish I could but if I did I would have the Mounties on my back faster than flies on a dropped sandwich. Regards to all and look forward to reading about others who enjoy shooting the Norinco.

[packinheavy]

Being a commander fan, I want one of the Norinco commanders that are imported to Canada that we can't get. My first 1911 was a Norinco and it was sold to a friend who still has it and is very happy with it. The only complaint most have with them is goverment that is making them.

[kbr80]

Personally, I will take a mil spec Nork any day of the week over all other 1911's. :cool:

[Prezzz]

I thought it was great the John made a forum for the Norinco. I've never seen another place just for the often misunderstood China man 1911.

[Kerwin]

Boy am i glad to see a Norinco forum. i am planning to get one, and im going to bug the experts here for advice. :)

[1911slabsides]

Okay, I goofed up too.

[Dave Berryhill]

Hello. There was just something about a "Chinese forty-five" that didn't sit right with me; it wasn't anything political. I just figured it was junk...

Yes, they're junk. You should all send them to me and I'll dispose of them for you. ;)

[robertbank]

Dave just wanted to let you know that I have already registered the official Norinco Disposal Dump Site with both the Canadian and U.S. Governments. As these guns contain large amounts of radioactive redcadium which may be toxic to your health all Norincos should be sent to my address in the far Northwest where they can disposed of without fear of any further human contact. Just put them in the mail and mark "Not a real firearm" on the package that way your and our border guards will let them enter Canada without any further questions. Incidently the reason why Slick Willy banned the guns in the U.S. because of their radioactivity! You guys ran out of toxic waste sites.

Nice to have our own forum, thanks John!

[Dave Berryhill]

...Just put them in the mail and mark "Not a real firearm" on the package that way your and our border guards will let them enter Canada without any further questions...

Ok, but I'm going to have to trade you for some affordable prescription drugs :D

[Brian D.]

It's only happened to me for real once, but in my dreams this scenario plays out over and over: Some fellow shooter has found a 'Rinco to make over into some sort of super duper race gun. He's putting in fancy schmancy Wilson/Baer/etc. internals, so he just GIVES me those original "junk" innards like the firing pin & stop, extractor, hammer, sear, mainspring housing...well, you get the idea. :D

[valor1]

This is to spare you the agony and give you peace of mind. I'll take care all of your Norinco junks. Hurry! These items are not made for your valuable collection.

[stumbler]

I belong to a program that sponsors artificial reefs in the Gulf of Mexico. These reefs provide shelter for the poor fish. In the name of humanity, please send me those junk norks to me. I will make sure that they are put to a good use. LOL

[yoda21]

It has to be 15 years ago anyway........couldn't afford a Goldcup for NRA indoor, so I had the club gun runner order me a Norinco from an ad in Gunlist. He, and the rest of the club thought I was nuts, Nobody laughed when that thing 'one holed' from 50' on the bench. Today, I can't afford a MEUSOC kimber, so the old girl goes in for a new dress......here we go again !!!!! :)

[cxm]

Steve, I have to echo your experience...

Afriend bought a NORINCO and took it up to Denton. He was not shooting well with the gun and asked me to try it. The trigger was AWFUL...but that gun can shoot tight groups indeed.

Anyway we picked up some parts for the gun and put on a few McCormick parts. I then did a reliability package on the gun... and it will now feed empty cases... it will shoot anything. Now he plans to add a trigger and trigger job along with a high ride grip safety and some new sights. Because he only paid around $250 he will have a great shooter at a low price.

One question... have you seen/heard any that the grip bushing threads in the frame are not standard? Tried putting thin line grips on for my friend and discovered the bushngs don't fit.

Oh, BTW... Larry's in Lewisville has a NORINCO used in stock. Not as cheap however, but has some parts on it.

FWIW

Chuck

Hello. There was just something about a "Chinese forty-five" that didn't sit right with me; it wasn't anything political. I just figured it was junk.

By the time I found out that I was wrong, they were pretty hard to find and prices were higher...considerably higher. I shot a few of the guns over the years and had seen that they "ran" fine. Finally, I happened to speak with a gunsmith who said that the Norinco 1911's were made of very good steel and were almost always "in spec" with regard to frame holes and such.

.

My particular pistol appears to have a slow barrel. In quite a few instances, I find that average velocities are roughly 40 ft/sec or so slower than when the same loads from the same box are fired from about any other 5" 1911. This is not a hard-and-fast rule with Norinco 1911's as I chronographed some loads out of other Norinco pistols that have been very comparable with Kimber, Colt, STI, Springfield, etc.

Best.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Yes, the grip screw bushings are metric on the outside. Wilson's used to sell bushings for the Norinco, but I don't know if that is still the case.

Best.

[robertbank]

What is the issue with the bushings? Why not leave them in as the thread for the grip screws is standard not metric.

[1911slabsides]

If I remember correctly, Way Way back I was looking through a Wilson Catalog, As I recall all his parts fit the Norinco except for the grip screws.

[cxm]

Thanks to all for the information...

I suppose the easy answer is to simply re-threat the holes in the grip to accept the slim line bushings.

/r

Chuck

[robertbank]

THe threades for the bushings that screw into the frame are metric. The bushings themselves accept standard grip screws made for 1911's. I have three Norincos and have changed the grips on all of them.

[Jim V]

My gunsmith has just retapped the present bushing holes with a standard tap so he could install slimline bushings for the "skinny" grips.

[valor1]

Oh Guys? Just a thought came to my mind. If I get to hold a brand new Norinco gov't model pistol right now, what would be the first things I should be checking and modifying next as for the intention of making it an all-around pistol and occassional IDPAs? Thanks for the opinions.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I strongly suspect that you would want to upgrade the smallish fixed sights. A trigger job might be necessary as well. After that, I reckon whatever you feel you need. The things usually run well from the get-go in my limited experience with them and from what I've seen with other's pistols.

Best.

[robertbank]

I have three. Like MR. Camp said, all three were/are in need of decent sights and a trigger job. That said only one really has a heavy trigger pull. My Commander size is about to come home sporting new sights, Trigger, hammer and sear, flatmainspring housing and beavertail grip.

I am going to put heinie sights on one of the A1's and have a trigger job done on it. Beyond that it will stay stock until something breaks. Should be good to go for IDPA.

The 3rd gun is going to be left stock for awhile anyway. I have painted front sights with fluorescent red paint which has really helped front sight acquisition. This gun will be my bush gun.

All three guns are accurate out of the box and eat everything I feed them. Accuracy frankly was a surprise. For a $375 Cdn ($288 US) you can't beat them. Now looking for their 9mm S/S 1911. It comes with bobed hammer, beavertail and poor sights. They are said to be good shooters as well. Price is about $375 Cdn. up here right now.

I have a Para SSP that is my home defense piece. Accurate as all get out and super reliable. Trigger breaks at four lbs. For what you can get them for in the US probably is a better buy than the Norincos, depends on your budget though.

Keep safe and good shooting.

[daltexmexican1911]

And still have the box it came in. I consider myself lucky for that. I am always taking it to the range. It keeps impressing me. At ten yards I have all my rounds touching. Even in rapid fire mode it gives me a nice center pattern. If any of you are foollish, Uh Oh wait I mean UNHAPPY with your Norinco 1911. Send it my way. I will give it a good home. And plenty of scratches behind the ear.

[robertbank]

Obviously you have not been reading the newspaper! In the interest of furthering the goodwill between our two countries and to ensure the U.S. remains pure and clean the Terrace Defensive Pistol Club has, through no little effort, declared the club a deposit site for all unwanted communist designed Norinco A1's. We will accept new and used weapons without any charge or disposal fee. Donations will however be greatfully accepted in multiples of 100 please. Bank charges up here to handle foreign currency can be excessive.

[daltexmexican1911]

Obviously you have not been reading the newspaper! In the interest of furthering the goodwill between our two countries and to ensure the U.S. remains pure and clean the Terrace Defensive Pistol Club has, through no little effort, declared the club a deposit site for all unwanted communist designed Norinco A1's. We will accept new and used weapons without any charge or disposal fee. Donations will however be greatfully accepted in multiples of 100 please. Bank charges up here to handle foreign currency can be excessive.


Funny. NO!

[Ken Grant]

I have 3 Norincos-----2 full size-----1 compact
The full size work great-----the compact has a clocking extractor and gives FTE on the last round,about 3 FTE out of a hundred rounds fired :D

[Ken Grant]

Dave Sample, a custom gunsmith that hangs out on THR Forum said that all the inside parts in Norincos were soft and he changes all of them out on any Norinco he works on[ even the spring steel extractor]

I tried to buy all the junk,soft parts but he wont sell them----wonder why???
He said he had a bag full :confused: :mad:

[robertbank]

Sounds like a 'smith who thinks all parts should be exchanged. I have a Para SSP. When one of the internals fail all let Dave know....might be awhile. So to the Norincos. The guns are shooters that is a fact. Soft steel...now that is a good one.

[Jim V]

Hmm, soft internals? Strange, my 'smith thought they were just fine. The only reason I changed the extractor on one of my 3 was the funky reddish color, not because I thought it would fail any time soon.

[Brian D.]

My experience mirrors those of robertbank and Jim V. When I was kinda new to 'Rincos, I changed out one of the sear springs because of that funny red-purple color. I've since figured out that this was not necessary..My Norinco #1 is up to about 20K rounds with those "soft" parts inside. I won't say that Dave Sample is wrong, because it's tough to speak with any certainty about all the Norincos that came here; for one, they likely weren't all made in the same plant in China.

[daltexmexican1911]

I just bought my second Norinco 1911A1 last night. I went to my favorite gun store. And they had one on the shelf. A little used but still in good shape. So I traded in my Ruger GP100 and after I signed the paperwork it was mine. I am a very happy camper.

[dforth]

Yes, they're junk. You should all send them to me and I'll dispose of them for you. ;)

And just how do you propose to dispose of them Dave? :lm:

[Jescorrea]

Going back to 1993 and the hayday of the Norinco. I got one at 300 bones NIB, Changed grips before I got home. I shot it for about 6 months and then it got stolen. Not only did I lose the gun, the responsible individual had to go too. So no girlfriend either.

Fast forward to 2006. Gun show in South Texas, about closing time, saw a 1911 under some window screen material, they vendor was gettin gready to start packing, and I sprung into action. Asked questions about it and prices, asked about two other guns and asked for a package deal. I offered 800 for all three. He looked at me and shook his head for a second then handed over a clipboard with the mandatory background check.

The Norinco, had an extended beavertail, Combat Hammer, Skeletonized trigger, beveled mag extension, and Ambi safety added to it already. It must have been someones pride and joy, because this boombastic gun was excellent. I kicked myself for 13 years, and finally i had another. probably with all the stuff that would have been added to it anyway. Figured, I saved 13 years of ammo to have fun now.

the other two guns were a Colt Lawman MK III 357 4 inch barrel, and a Taurus 357 6 in barrel. the Taurus was gifted to an uncle, the Colt stayed. If you find a Norinco, even if its used

Thats my story

Regards

SFC Correa