guide rods and tinkering

[twin oaks]

I've decided to keep my Colt stock and get a beater. So far the STI looks like a great deal for the money, and my local pawn shop has a few candidates for frankensteining. I don't really like the idea of the full length guide rods on the 1911. Is it safe to convert them to standard length guide rods? Or is the operation of the pistol dependant upon the full length rod?

Seems stupid to take a single handed gun that can be charged on doors, shoes, hosters, etc., and turn it into a two hander. ( not that two hands are bad for shooting, but the Original design was a calvary pistol when our boys were on horseback.)

[gbw]

Not sure about the STI, I've no experience with them. But on any standard unmodified 1911 you can re-install the standard guide rod and plug, no problem.

[billdo]

get an ria, cheap, and great out of the box, 350 a peice. and i put a combo of 100 blazer aluminum casings, 20hornady hollow points, and 350 winchester white boxes through it today, with no problems. and that was with u.s.g.i. 7 rd. mags!!! :dead_hors

[1911Tuner]

As long as the beater has a standard recoil system...i.e. not a reverse-plug system, the original "Stub" guide rod, spring, and plug should be a simple switch. Be sure to check for the flange making contact with the slide. Sometimes they do, and require light fitting.

Another potential problem spot is the concave portion preventing the barrel from properly dropping to the frame bed. The red flags for both issues are
tight, gritty slide movement...and occasionally will prevent full travel if it's severe enough.

Two questions are often asked converning full-length guide rods.

"What's so great about FLGRs?"

"Nothing"

"What's so bad about FLGRs?"

"Nothing."

Aside from the fact that they make the gun a little more difficult to field-strip, a correctly-dimensioned FLGR will make no difference, escept in badly-worn pistols with grossly excessive vertical slide to frame play...and in those a FLGR can help make things run smoother.

[David Rose]

I use the "newer" takedown (I thought I discovered it about 35 years ago) by pulling the stop *then* the plug and bushing with slide off and no tension. I hate having to use an allen wrench to remove the guide front first. But don't you think they (FLGR) keep the springs nice and smooth? Or maybe all my guns are the sloppy types. They don't get used enough to be worn. :nono:

David

[1911Tuner]

But don't you think they (FLGR) keep the springs nice and smooth?

Maybe....if the're a lot of slop in the slide/frame fit...but a deeper look at the standard recoil system will reveal a few things that many don't consider.

As the spring is compressed...and keep in mind that it compresses at an equal rate along its length, and not just front to rear...the plug encapsulates it and supports it on the OD while the spring coils compress over the stub guide, supporting its ID. The spring can only deflect so far. So...it's not like the spring is simply compressing, and free to twist and squirm.

[David Rose]

You're up late! Or is it early?

Yes, it isn't just the guide that guides it. But still, most of the ones that have had more use than they should (about all of the ones I pull), have exagerated wear in three or four areas most of the time. It doesn't seem uniform from one end to the other. Then again, those springs should have been trashed long ago, so it probably is a moot point.

David, who has no FLGRs

[1911Tuner]

You're up late! Or is it early?


Normal day. 0400 for me, 7/365 since long ago and far away...

But still, most of the ones that have had more use than they should (about all of the ones I pull), have exagerated wear in three or four areas most of the time.

Anything is subject to normal wear and tear. I've seen springs that had that same "Hinky-Kinky" appearance after life with a FLGR, and others that didn't after 2500 rounds with a stub-type/original system. I tend to think that it's more a slight defect in the wire than anything else.

I have had a couple pistols on the bench that were so worn, and had so much vertical slop that the slides would rise at the front so high that one of the spring's middle coils actually hit the ends of the stub guide rods. The springs were badly kinked after only a few rounds...and the ends of the rods were pretty badly chewed up. A swage-down on the rails and refitting the slide cured it in both cases. Incidentally, both the pistols mentioned were 1918 "Black Army" Colts with what was very likely an inconceiveable number of rounds down the tubes. Those old frames and slides were soft, and tended to wear pretty quickly as compared to modern components that have had the benefits of full heat-treating. One of the pistols that I repaired wore the original/correct slide, and it cracked on the right side adjacent to the breechface within 1500 rounds after the fix. The guy brought it back with a pristine Rand slide...which I refitted...and it's been doing yeoman service ever since.

[David Rose]

Yeah, I suspect that many that I've seen were either well worn or at least needed slide to frame fitting for whatever reason.

What are "Black Army" Colts? Time for some history along with my 'smithing lesson.

I really do appreciate the time that you spend here educatiing folks, me included. Maybe "especially" me? :o One thing I learned long ago is that when you get too old to learn, you should be 6' down. ;)

David

[1911Tuner]

What are "Black Army" Colts?


"Black Army" Colts were so named because of the dull, matte blue finish that looked a lot like today's black oxide. It came about when America needed 1911 pistols in a hurry for their entry into WW1, and was because the guns weren't as finely polished before finishing. Basically no more than an expediency measure, as the guns themselves were the full equals of their prettier predecessors. IIRC, the practice began in early 1918 and continued to the end of production in the late spring of 1919, when the last of the Colts were rushed out the door in order to make the deadline on the contract. A search of the term will pull up more information and history.

Here's my original/correct 1919 Black Army Colt that was produced very near the end of the run. Much of the original finish is missing, but the gun is mechanically in excellent shape. The bore is pristine, and the old girl will shoot into 4 inches from the bags at 50 yards with PMC ball ammo. It'll feed and function as smoothly with hollowpoints and 200-grain lead SWCs as it will with hardball...and it'll do it from the old
GI "Hardball" magazines.

Except for installing new springs, and a little retensioning on the original extractor, the gun is unaltered and has never been tuned or tweaked.

Notice the similarity in the slidestop and the Wilson Bulletproof slidestop design. Nothin' new under the sun, it seems.

That's a minty 1945 production Remington Rand in the background...and it'll feed all the above-mentioned ammo too.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/1911Tuner/Colt.jpg