Use a 1911 firing pin spring for a Colt Ace conversion?

[warmrain]

My Ace conversion has a very weak and very rusty firing pin return spring. The ones I can get (e.g. e-gunparts.com) look equally rusty and compressed. My gunsmith has recommended that I replace it...

Having not found one that looks any better than what I have now... I'm wondering if there is any reason why I cannot use a standard 1911 firing pin spring? :confused:

The Wolff spring I have looks longer than the ACE spring, but that's to be expected isn't it, when a new spring is comparted to one that has been compressed for a few decades...

The 1911 spring is a couple coils greater in length, the ACE spring being about 38 and the Wolff 1911 spring being about 41...

In fact, I wonder oif the firing pins are different that a Series 70 1911 pin? :confused:

[David Rose]

I can't see how it would hurt to try it. If it is too stiff or long, you might get misfires. Since you have it, I would try it. I haven't looked at an Ace firing pin in a long time. Don't they look similar? If so, I suspect the springs are likely to be the same.

David

[warmrain]

The wire looks to be the same diameter (though I have not mic'd it) and the coil diameter appears the same. The length of the new one is considerably longer and I think that is to be expected. There are a couple more coils on the 1911 spring, as I said. I'm loathe to cut the spring short as it currently has two closed ends and I do don't one end to be open...

I may give it a try... I will have to examine the firing pins too for similarity...

My problem now is an occ. light primer strike... So I wonder if it could be that the rusty and compressed old spring is occ. not returning the firing pin fully rearward.

This particular Ace conversion was LNIB and the blue is 100%, it is probably internally in worse shape than if it had been used and cleaned regularly. The firing pin, spring and FP channel all have rust, the spring looks the worst and the channel and pin quite a bit better.

[SLM]

while you have it out, make sure you clean the pin channel and hole too. It could be that something in there is restricting the movement of the pin. A weak spring wouldn't cause light hits.

[David Rose]

Like SLM said. I suspect that the firing pin won't travel smoothly in that tunnel... unless you have already cleaned it out. The nose of the pin is a close fit up front. It doesn't take much rust at all to cause it to get sticky. And it could just be rust off the spring. But I would find a proper fitting bore brush and scrub the tunnel. You'll need something smaller for the front section.

It seems like maybe twice or three times a year I get in a 1911 military version with misfiring or feeding problems with a firing pin nose protruding. Most of these guns are relatively clean. And some are very clean. Once inside, the springs will sometimes be literally crumbled. The last one came out in about 15 pieces of spring. That doesn't count the rust chunks.

If it looks like the guy has interest in keeping his gun working and half way clean, I pull the pin and show him how it is done. I am amazed at the younger guys who will say something like, "I didn't know that would come out". I am not of this plastic/modular age! Though I do admit to enjoying some of the benefits... :D

David

[warmrain]

while you have it out, make sure you clean the pin channel and hole too. It could be that something in there is restricting the movement of the pin. A weak spring wouldn't cause light hits.
Thanks SLM,

In fact I solved an occ. light primer strike on a Colt mustang by simply cleaning out the firing pin channel. However it was suggested to me that the combination of rust in the area and weakness of the firing pin spring may occ. prevent the firing pin from returning fully aft therefore lacking the required enertia when next struck by the hammer... Though that does seem like a long shot...

[warmrain]

Like SLM said. I suspect that the firing pin won't travel smoothly in that tunnel... unless you have already cleaned it out. The nose of the pin is a close fit up front. It doesn't take much rust at all to cause it to get sticky. And it could just be rust off the spring. But I would find a proper fitting bore brush and scrub the tunnel. You'll need something smaller for the front section...
David

Well I did get in there and pull the parts to replace the spring with a "new" replacement from Numrich, but the ones I got looked no better than the one I had... So I ran a cleaner soaked Q-tip through there and picked out a lot of junk... Now it seems that I should go through the drawer and find the bore brush that fits best 25-32 is my guess and clean with that. I'll have to put it on a chamber cleaning handle so that I can twist it in and get it back out!

I may in fact have rust flaking off the spring and still wonder if I can use the 1911 spring... Well, I can always give it a try... Thanks!

[RickB]

Does Numrich show a different part number for the firing pin spring of the Ace/Conversion than for other calibers? That doesn't mean a spring from a .45 won't work, but if the part numbers are different, the springs must be somehow different, too.

[warmrain]

RickB,

Well, DUH! :scared:

Yes, Numrich shows the SAME part number for the firing pin spring... Now I'm off to go try the Wolff spring...

BTW, there is both a Series 70 and a Series 80 Ace 22 firing pin and those numbers do not match any of the Government model firing pin numbers, they seem unique...

[warmrain]

I removed the old firing pin and polished it with Nevr-Dull until is was bright.
I used a 22 caliber rifle (to reach the whole way in) bore brush on a fixed handle and thorougly cleaned the firing pin channel.
I replaced the existing spring with a new Wolff +5% spring, being sure to place the small end onto the firing pin.

Results are 100% ignition.

This vintage Colt Ace kit is on a vintage Colt GCNM that belongs to my wife. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help in resolving the reliability of this firearm. It is her favorite and I hate to see her frustrated with misfires.

Best, Cars :D

[David Rose]

One more thing... Did you smear some light oil in there with a q-tip?

The Bible says (my paraphrase) "better to life on the roof of a house than indoors with a frustrated woman". So we are *very* glad to have helped! :D

David

[warmrain]

Yes, BreakFree CLP.

Agreed with your paraphrase...!

It has never run better. It's even igniting the really cheap (<$10/525 rounds) stuff...!

[David Rose]

That is really good news! I had a feeling that was the cause of the problem.

David

[SLM]

Glad to hear it's fixed. MUCH more fun that way. Glad we could be of help. :D

[robot1911]

I suggest you also replace the mainspring if it's been in there that long. The main on a GC is lighter than a government model to start with and it's probably degraded over time. The GC is probably about a 19# and I'd use a 21# to replace it. Standard GM is 23#.
If you don't mind about a 1/4# increase in trigger pull (maybe), I'd recommend you install a standard 23# mainspring in there. You'll get a cleaner burn, a bit higher velocity, and the ejection port area will stay cleaner, longer.

Bob

[warmrain]

Bob,

Thanks. I suspect you're talking about the recoils spring... Yes, the recoil spring on a GCNM is lighter than a GM and as such standard 45 ACP should not be used with that light recoil spring... The standard GM spring for a 5" is 16#, the standard for a GCNM is 12#. The spring that works best for my light target loads is 11#. I am using fresh springs in the GCNM, but of course that has little to do with the ACE conversion kit...

The Ace kit comes from Colt with a 14# recoil spring.

But the "main" spring... Oh... you mean the spring under... gee MSH... Duh...

The GCNM part of this setup is a circa 1991 that was purchased NIB about a year ago... perhaps I should be looking at changing that too. This is the coil spring right? Not the 3-leaf spring, which I think is called the sear spring?

I have replaced MSHs before so I know how to do that; though I've never had an ignition problem with 45 ACP.

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll do some research...

Best, Cars

[David Rose]

You figured it out. It is the coil spring in the MS housing. There is a little pin in the top portion of the housing that retains the MS cap. You need to press the MS down before pushing out that pin. Then be careful on the release! That spring is compressed.

One reason that it would be good to change it, besides normal compression set, is to check that for rust also. The springs are cheap too. I would at least squirt some oil on the top of the cap to soak in. However, rust there won't work the same way likely. You wouldn't likely get warning before the housing was heavily rusted.

David

Bob,The GCNM part of this setup is a circa 1991 that was purchased NIB about a year ago... perhaps I should be looking at changing that too. This is the coil spring right? Not the 3-leaf spring, which I think is called the sear spring?

I have replaced MSHs before so I know how to do that; though I've never had an ignition problem with 45 ACP.

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll do some research...

Best, Cars

[robot1911]

Yep, you got it...it's the mainspring I suggest you change. John Browning designed the 1911 to function with a 23# mainspring in the GM and it does in fact work better with that one in there.
In 55 years of 'smithing, I've accurized lots of Ace's but very few that were setting on Gold Cups.
My reason for this post, though, is to suggest that you get some FP 10 and coat the inside contact area of the 'floating chamber' of that barrel with it. It'll delay the buildup of firing debris and maybe...just maybe...you can get through a whole shooting session without it freezing on you. Otherwise if your ace is typical, it'll freeze at about 50-60 rounds and you'll have lots of fun getting that chamber un-stuck from the barrel. And do clean it after each shooting session. It'll save you lots of grief!

Bob

[warmrain]

David,

Thanks! I've changed the plastic MSHs on all my Kimbers to Ed Brown Stainless (30 LPI) and had to swap the guts, so I have that worked out.

Bob,

Fully understood now.

About the floating chamber, I guess I have been lucky. Though I don't think we've had more than 100 rounds through it between cleanings, we have not had a problem with it sticking. Maybe one reason is that I take great care in cleaning. I use a brush in the barrel where the floating chamber goes and I use a dental pick to gently dig the crud out of the very small recessed ring that is at the intersection of the tube and disk (if that makes sense)... It is amazing how crud is impacted into that area.

BTW, This is a stainless Gold Cup in ultimate finish, Series 80 (under my photo icon). The Ace kit is an early steel (blued) version designed before the Series 80 Colts. My smith machined a small slot in the bottom of the Ace slide to allow the firing pin safety lever to move into so that they could be used together. The slide ran a little tight for 50 rounds or so and we had to be very careful about cleaning and lubing; I wanted avoid any chance of galling. It is working very well for her and I won a small bore competition at the club shooting a perfect score with it against a couple of S&W 41 long barrels.

You both have been very kind to offer your time to get me through this and my wife's time on the range, as a result, is more fun for us.