KG Gun Kote

[DLBlack]

I sent this question to the company but did not get a response. Hopefully someone here can help.
* I know the Gun Kote is applied very thin, does the K-Phos add any significant thickness or do I need to be concerned?

* Do internals get K-Phos also?

* If I remove the dovetailed sights, should they reinstall without damaging the Gun Kote if property cured and not to thick?

I'm sorry for all of the novice questions, I just want to get this right the first time without to much experimenting.

Thanks,
David

[Lubaloy]

I experimented with KPhos. Did not find a difference.
But if it leaves ANY residue, how can it promote adhesion?

[DLBlack]

K-Phos is not a cleaner, it is organic sealed phosphate coating. My understanding is that it promotes adhesion. Even looking at some of the gunsmith's sites that do the coating, they use it. They just don't call it by name.

[Hawkmoon]

The KPhos leaves a very finely textured surface. Possibly not completely necessary if you bead blast the surface first, but highly recommended if you don't have the capability of bead blasting or sandblasting.

Whatever you do, remember what your Granny told you: Cleanliness is next to Godliness." Gun-Kote sticks tenaciously to surfaces that are squeaky clean, but get any contamination on a surface and the cured Gun-Kote will peel off like taking the shell off a hard-boiled egg. You must not even touch the prepared surfaces with your fingers. I recommend wearing surgical gloves to ensure that NO skin oils get on the metal before spraying.

We'll have a write-up on Gun-Kote in the e-zine very shortly.

[David Rose]

David,

Hang on. KG will get back to you. They are really loaded up work wise from the Shot Show and another show.

We started applying Gun-Kote about a year ago. I've heard mixed reports on the K-Phos. But it is not suppose to add enough thickness to preclude using it on internals. We apply G-K directly to the metal (any metal that can take 275 degrees - more in some cases) after blasting with Dupont Starblast XL. Durability is excellent! If you scrape it enough to scrape the metal, it will be removed of course. But that means that scraping or polishing with compound or blasting is the only way to remove it. I would like to see tests of G-K vs K-Phos and G-K.

Yes! Koted parts can be impacted without damage as sights would be for installation. Remember that tritium vials will NOT take the curing heat! I am pretty sure that the spray cans will not apply the thin coat needed. We skipped and went right to an airbrush.

Oh, and as Mr. Moon said, we use clean cotton gloves from the blast cabinet to the air cleaning, then thereafter only latex gloves or various hangers. Skip trying nitrile. The MEK will melt them quickly!

David


I sent this question to the company but did not get a response. Hopefully someone here can help.
* I know the Gun Kote is applied very thin, does the K-Phos add any significant thickness or do I need to be concerned?

* Do internals get K-Phos also?

* If I remove the dovetailed sights, should they reinstall without damaging the Gun Kote if property cured and not to thick?

I'm sorry for all of the novice questions, I just want to get this right the first time without to much experimenting.

Thanks,
David

[gottripletsNC]

I don't have any experience with K-Phos, but have used the spray-on GunKote from Brownells, and it works ok, but still looks like it was spray painted, not a finish in any sense of the word like bluing or parkerizing. I made sure not to touch any metal after prepping the parts and it adhered quite nicely to the parts. However, small parts, and edges such as on the rails themselves and the tip of the thumb safety, and the leading edge of the slide and muzzle from being put in the holster has caused some minor chip and wear on those areas. Mine will eventually go back to SA for a repark. I wish you could bead blast blue a gun that was parked.

Don't expect the wonderful finish that it looks to be online.

[Lubaloy]

I worked through a rather steep learning curve in regards to the spray and bake finishes. I was tired of dealing with outside vendors an accepting poor quality and delivery.
Everybody has developed their own techniques. KG recommends pre-heating the parts. I don't pre-heat as it seems that the product going on 'wet' would have better penetration/adhesion on a fresh blasted and/or parkerized surface.
Gun-Kote is very good. Ceracoat is better.
I currently use both an airbrush and a HVLP .5mm touch-up gun. The airbrush gets the hard to reach areas. The HVLP is used for the larger external areas.

[contender*]

I've sprayed three guns with gun-kote so far. All have been sandblasted, none have used the coating you are referring to(K-Phos). All have held up to some pretty darn ruff abuse! It has even stayed on the slide rails.The sights are a little tough to drive back in even with a very thin coat but the coating still stands up fairly well to putting them back in the dovetails. Buy you some new leather gloves to handle th parts with, you can use latex during and after sandblast/beadblast but will need the leather because you must heat the parts up before spraying (heating opens the pores in the metal and lets the kote absorb, it also helps to "set" the coating so you can get a thicker coat on it without runs) . Here is my latest victim a Llama mini-max-- The frame is OD and the slide is Satin black. I tried the rattle can gun-kote, don't waste your money!! Buy the kind that you have to spray with an automotive grade touchup gun.
BTW, I'm still not finished with this one, I'm still looking to get a SS safety, hammer and trigger for it.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/485703.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=485703&c=500&z=1)

[Branspop]

How do the sprays hold up to holster wear?

[DLBlack]

Thanks for all the help on this. I think I will blast with Aluminum Oxide and then spray with Gun Kote and skip the K-Phos. One more question if anyone knows the answer, Brownell list Gloss and Matte, KG list Gloss, Satin and Flat. Is the Brownells Matte the same as the Flat or Satin? This would be for the liquid, not spray can.

David Rose, I read my question and see that it was misleading. When I was talking about the sights, actually what I meant was if I removed the sights to spray the gun and then reinstalled the sights, would there be damage to the coating on the slide?

[David Rose]

Brian,

What Gun-Kote people told me was that the canned stuff was horrible for application thickness. I didn't ask, but assumed that it meant it went on heavily.

One thing that I've found is that the glossier the finish that you are applying, the more it appears "painted". I think the flat finishes are very attractive. I do more of the semi-glosses, but I really don't like the look.

Chipping can be greatly reduced by slightly radiusing sharp edges. It doesn't take a real "melt" job to work. It does add to the work.

Were you using the right abrasive? It makes all the difference from a couple of others that I tried, and what the factory says. I think the Dupont Starblast XL is the best.

David

I don't have any experience with K-Phos, but have used the spray-on GunKote from Brownells, and it works ok, but still looks like it was spray painted, not a finish in any sense of the word like bluing or parkerizing. I made sure not to touch any metal after prepping the parts and it adhered quite nicely to the parts. However, small parts, and edges such as on the rails themselves and the tip of the thumb safety, and the leading edge of the slide and muzzle from being put in the holster has caused some minor chip and wear on those areas. Mine will eventually go back to SA for a repark. I wish you could bead blast blue a gun that was parked.

Don't expect the wonderful finish that it looks to be online.

[David Rose]

I thought the curve was rather steep also. I'm not quite over the top yet, but can predict several things now. Application uniformity was a major step in the curve for me. I think applying cool helps also in some cases.

How is Ceracoat better? Please elaborate. Does it apply in the fashion?

David

I worked through a rather steep learning curve in regards to the spray and bake finishes. I was tired of dealing with outside vendors an accepting poor quality and delivery.
Everybody has developed their own techniques. KG recommends pre-heating the parts. I don't pre-heat as it seems that the product going on 'wet' would have better penetration/adhesion on a fresh blasted and/or parkerized surface.
Gun-Kote is very good. Ceracoat is better.
I currently use both an airbrush and a HVLP .5mm touch-up gun. The airbrush gets the hard to reach areas. The HVLP is used for the larger external areas.

[David Rose]

I see. So far, I've had no damage to sight finish (when coatable) or the dovetails in the slides. I have marred a couple of really tight pins driving them back in. Then I discoverd (a little late :o , but not too late to correct) that my steel punches were not well polished. I used soft copper bars for sight drifts with no problems.

David

David Rose, I read my question and see that it was misleading. When I was talking about the sights, actually what I meant was if I removed the sights to spray the gun and then reinstalled the sights, would there be damage to the coating on the slide?

[Lubaloy]

David,
Ceracoat is more difficult to work with. It's mixed at 24 to 1 and the two components are of very different viscosity.
It will air dry to the touch in a couple hours and cures at 250f in 2 hours.
I haven't done any real testing, but I suspect it wears almost twice as well as GK.

[David Rose]

Lubaloy,

That would be impressive wear! It might be worth the extra work. I've left a pile of Gun-Koted parts (large pieces) on top of a counter for people to bang together and rattle around. So far, nothing shows. Of course, holsters abrade so...

My main "wear test" has so far been in the blast cabinet. I've removed G-K from a lot of samples to redo them. It is more difficult to blast off most of the factory finishes that I've tried so far. But I haven't tried any custom finishes yet. The Glocks that I've done were about the same. But G-K says they sell a bunch of Gun-Kote to Glock, so...

Have you applied Ceracoat? Do the dissimilar viscosities just create mixing difficulties? What about application?

Thank you!

David, always on the quest for better

[Branspop]

But G-K says they sell a bunch of Gun-Kote to Glock, so...

The finish on the Glock knives appears painted on, but I've never seen any handgun parts that look like they have been G-Ked.

[Lubaloy]

David,
Ceracoat seems to give a slightly rougher finish when applied by airbrush. Use of a HVLP gun can produce a smoother finish.

[David Rose]

I don't know what they use on the slides, but they look exactly like Gun-Kote to me.

David

The finish on the Glock knives appears painted on, but I've never seen any handgun parts that look like they have been G-Ked.

[Branspop]

I don't know what they use on the slides, but they look exactly like Gun-Kote to me.

David

On the slides Glock uses the "Tennifer" process. I understand it to be a salt bath nitride, which is about as far as my chemical understanding goes. It is blackened post-treatment.

http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/mats340/surfhard.htm

http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml

[David Rose]

Interesting links! Thank you.

I probably should have said that I can't tell the difference in the look or the removal process between Glock's finish and Gun-Kote that I put back on the slides.

If Glock is using Gun-Kote on their knives, they need to practice! LOL

I do agree that the satins have too much of a "painted" look for my taste.

David

On the slides Glock uses the "Tennifer" process. I understand it to be a salt bath nitride, which is about as far as my chemical understanding goes. It is blackened post-treatment.

http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/mats340/surfhard.htm

http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml

[David Rose]

This makes me think that the finish is somewhat thicker, is that true?

Thanks again,

David

David,
Ceracoat seems to give a slightly rougher finish when applied by airbrush. Use of a HVLP gun can produce a smoother finish.

[gottripletsNC]

David, I got the Matte finish, and while it looks ok, when its got any oil on it at all it gives the appearance of paint. As for going on heavy, I couldn't tell that. Its actually very thin. I put a new hammer, BT, and MSH in my full size, and the application of the GunKote showed no appreciable difference even in the minimal of tolerances of the new parts. The chipping on the edges only did it on my full size, the micro hasn't done it, and had considerably more holster usage than the full size, so I think it was operator error on the first one. Probably didn't clean well enough.

As for sanding first, I read that a good park finish doesn't need blasting before applying gunkote, so all I did was prep well with paint thinner, then placed in the oven for an hour to preheat, then sprayed, then back in the oven.

[David Rose]

Brian,

I think you are right about the K-Phos not needing blasting. I guess I was getting mixed up with responses.

Gun-Kote is really thin. The only place I've noticed thickness problems was with a 1911 that I just fitted the slide and frame. The coating did come off the high spots on the frame as I worked them back together with oil. The parts were almost too tight before coating, so I wasn't surprised.

I usually give a good "spritz" of Triflow after the parts have cooled, then wipe off all excess. I haven't noticed the "paint look" with the "flats". I'll reoil some of my samples.

David