C'mon baby, stake my plunger tube

[dogdollar]

I had the plunger tube on a near-new gun come loose the other day. How annoying ! Now that it's properly staked and loctited, what are the chances of this happening again ? And, tell me - Caspian and Infinity have both developed frames with integral plunger tubes....seems like a no-brainer to me.....how come no one else is following suit on this ?
Enjoy your weekend !!
Tim

[Lubaloy]

If the job was done correctly, zero chance!
First off, start with a quality tube. The studs must be long enough for proper riveting. The larger diameter hole should be drilled to the proper depth to prevent the slide stop plunger from sticking out too far and making reinstallation of the slide stop difficult.
Then the holes in the frame need proper countersinking internally to allow for good rivet spread.
I clean both the tube and frame and then mix up a bit of JB Weld. Apply to the rear of the tube and the holes in the frame.
Stake with a good quality tool. I use one of the old and discontinued Tom Wilson tools.
Clean up the inside of the mag well.
I've needed to remove a few that I've done like this, and let me tell you it was not easy! Destroyed the tube.
If an integral tube is damaged, no joy in Mudville.
:)

[ambidextrous1]

+1!
Start with the best, do your best, and the problem is solved.

Manufacturers don't usually do all of this when they install the plunger tube; it increases their labor cost in a fiercely competitive market.

[Greywolf]

+1!
Start with the best, do your best, and the problem is solved.

Manufacturers don't usually do all of this when they install the plunger tube; it increases their labor cost in a fiercely competitive market.
You have to wonder about that mentality, though. How much more would it cost to stake it correctly on the assembly line, a few cents? A dollar? How much does it cost them to pay for an UNHAPPY owner to ship the gun back, have a technician disassemble it, re-stake the tube, reassemble the gun, then give it to someone else to package it up and send it back to the UNHAPPY customer ... who by now has told half the immediate world that his brand-new 'XYZ' is junk because the plunger tube fell off.

Nope, as a business model it doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... but my brother was the economics major in the family, so perhaps that's not a surprise.

[dogdollar]

You have to wonder about that mentality, though. How much more would it cost to stake it correctly on the assembly line, a few cents?

Right, Greywolf ( welcome to the forums, by the way, I see you have moved up the ladder very quickly ;) ). Especially when it's an issue that SHUTS THE GUN DOWN !!!
Sometimes I don't understand all I know about this stuff.

T.

[Tom]

... welcome to the forums, by the way, I see you have moved up the ladder very quickly.
It's not who you know ... well, you know the ending of that expression. :D

I agree, it would only cost the manufacturer a little extra in labor and time to make sure each tube is staked properly. Or for that matter the same with sights, or any of the dozens of other common points of failure. But very few do, sadly.

[1911Tuner]

Here's a little trick that'll buck up your plunger tube and add strength to it.
If you use a wooden or hard rubber/plastic/Coltwood grip panel on the left side that curls over the lower part of the tube, cut a thin strip from the card insert that comes from Brownells with the EGW firing pin stop, or something of similar thickness...about .010-.012 inch. Loosen the grip screws and slip the shim between the tube and the top of the grip. Tighten the screw. Use an Ex-Acto knife to trim it flush. Ba-Da-Bing!

I did this little "Field Expedient Repair' on one of my beaters at the range when the tube got loose and tied up the thumb safety. It's held up for about a year, and when I get around to takin' the grips off, I'll go ahead and stake a new one in place. Meanwhile, it hasn't moved...and I work my thumb safety on and off a lot.

[Hersh]

I did this little "Field Expedient Repair' on one of my beaters at the range when the tube got loose and tied up the thumb safety.

Now I call that "improvise, adapt and overcome!" Tuner, you are one squared away Marine!

[1911Tuner]

oorah... ;)

[dogdollar]

Here's a little trick that'll buck up your plunger tube and add strength to it.
If you use a wooden or hard rubber/plastic/Coltwood grip panel on the left side that curls over the lower part of the tube, cut a thin strip from the card insert that comes from Brownells with the EGW firing pin stop, or something of similar thickness...about .010-.012 inch. Loosen the grip screws and slip the shim between the tube and the top of the grip. Tighten the screw. Use an Ex-Acto knife to trim it flush. Ba-Da-Bing!

I did this little "Field Expedient Repair' on one of my beaters at the range when the tube got loose and tied up the thumb safety. It's held up for about a year, and when I get around to takin' the grips off, I'll go ahead and stake a new one in place. Meanwhile, it hasn't moved...and I work my thumb safety on and off a lot.

Johnny, what can I say ? You rock.
T.

[Lubaloy]

Good fix for 'the range'
Poor fix for 'the street'
:o

[David Rose]

Johnny,

Here I am a lowly newby... but son, you oughta get that plunger tube restaked! LOL If you don't wanna do it, bring it by and I won't charge you a dime. hehe

I got that line from my wife. One muzzleloading season she wanted swivels on her ole heavy Hawken. Time drug on until we ate with a local hobby 'smith one night. Wife whispered to me, "will you put my swivels on tonight, or should I ask Bob to do it?" She got her swivels installed THAT night.

David

[1911Tuner]

Good fix for 'the range'
Poor fix for 'the street'

Agreed 101% Lub. It's a range beater only..but it does provide added support even with a correctly staked tube...and in case a body finds hisself far from from the shop with a hinky plunger tube...it'll do 'til ya get home. :cool:


Here I am a lowly newby... but son, you oughta get that plunger tube restaked!

Yep...and welcome aboard. 'Preciate the offer, but I've got a staking tool. Just too lazy/busy to do the repair. What I really gotta do is get on the horn and order one of those round tuits that I so desparately need. ;)

[auto45]

My plunger tube was a "tad" loose for about 15,000 rounds when the grips were off, but the standard size grips apparently kept enough pressure on them not to cause a problem.

I don't recommend that practice of course, ;) , and I did replace and stake in a new one...easy stuff!

That said, if I ordered a cast frame, it would be an intergral plunger tube. If the "tube" was thick/hard enough, it seems it would be very difficult to damage it IMveryHO. I have the "tool" so, if that frame was out of stock, I'd order a standard frame and install the plunger tube without worry. Not a "huge" issue IMO.

[clughog]

This might be a question for another thread, but what's the best plunger tube staking tool to get? I've been looking at the kit from Brownells that looks like vice grips. There's another one I've seen from MidwayUSA thats more like a screw down clamp looking device. Any thoughts or other sources/products?

[ambidextrous1]

I have used the clamp type device - once - with good results. I took my time, striving to do the best job possible... That was 4 or 5 years ago, and no problems - yet... :)

[Tom]

Okay. No more excuses, people.
http://www.myrtlewoodgallery.com/tuitround.jpg

[1911Tuner]

Dangit Tom! I was hopin' those things had been discontinued...

[David Rose]

I modified a set of Vice Grips to the configuration of the "Vice Grip tool". Then I created a flat copper piece with a tunnel to match "common" dimensions of the plunger tube. With a rod inserted into the tunnel of the plunger tube (remember 2 diameters) and the copper block on top of the tube, you almost can't damage one with the crimping tool. I imagine a screw clamp would work well too. The Vice Grip tool serves dual purposes with different noses (shaped screws). It will crimp in 1100 disconnector springs, stake shotgun cartridge stops, and various other crimping jobs where the jaws are long enough.

It doesn't have the reach for things like 1911 grip bushings. :(

David

This might be a question for another thread, but what's the best plunger tube staking tool to get? I've been looking at the kit from Brownells that looks like vice grips. There's another one I've seen from MidwayUSA thats more like a screw down clamp looking device. Any thoughts or other sources/products?

[1911Tuner]

I modified a set of Vice Grips to the configuration of the "Vice Grip tool".

Outstanding! I like makin' my own stuff. Made a lotta my own tools, and if I hadn't loaned'em out when I gave up smiffin' I'd still have'em all. Funny how people "forget" to return things...ain't it? :rolleyes:

[OD*]

Caspian and Infinity have both developed frames with integral plunger tubes....seems like a no-brainer to me....
I know I ain't nowhere as smart as Larry Vickers and the other big name guys, but what happens if you'd crush one of the integral tubes?

[1911Tuner]

I know I ain't nowhere as smart as Larry Vickers and the other big name guys, but what happens if you'd crush one of the integral tubes?

Mill it off, drill the holes, and install a standard plunger tube. 'Course, you'd probably hafta refinish the gun...but all that likely wouldn't cost more'n, say...250 bucks or so... to repair a 10-dollar problem.

Good thinkin'. :rolleyes:

[OD*]

Another case of trying to out smart Mr. Browning, Johnny? ;)

[David Rose]

Yes, that's a real bummer. I just remembered that I borrowed a tool when I first started. Uh, oh! The ole timer is dead now. I guess I should offer it to his son now.

David

Outstanding! I like makin' my own stuff. Made a lotta my own tools, and if I hadn't loaned'em out when I gave up smiffin' I'd still have'em all. Funny how people "forget" to return things...ain't it? :rolleyes:

[gbw]

I made one from a very cheap c-clamp. It works, but it bends if too much pressure is used. I had to grind too much from the back of the clamp to get it to fit into the magwell, which left it too thin to withstand the pressure. Perhaps if I'd used a better grade clamp it would work better.

I also put just a trace of pre-mix silver solder around the outside of the rivits at their base, and heat it after steaking, from the inside.

[1911Tuner]

FWIW...Brownells Acra-Glas makes for a dead solid mount that'll make JB Weld look like model airplane glue. Mix a dab of that stuff and stake it in, and it ain't goin' nowhere, brother... :p

[David Rose]

Right on on the AcraGlas! Degrease pins and holes carefully, of course.

David

[Vic S]

I sent my mil spec back to SA to get the plunger tube restaked with less than 1500 rounds through the pistol. SA got it right back and did not charge a cent BUT why wasn't it done right the first time!
Customer service said they still use a hammer and staking tool during the production process and sometimes don't get it right. This is 2007, why don't they just set up a press and fixture and uniformly swage each piece. It can't be more expensive than the $100 SA paid just for shipping to repair my mil spec.
Maybe Tuner or some other smith can explain why it can't be done and I'm all wet for complaining. But after working in a machine shop for 34 years I can't believe SA would save money and keep their customers happy by updating their production line.
Thanks for the vent.

[1911Tuner]

Maybe Tuner or some other smith can explain why it can't be done and I'm all wet for complaining.

Brother...I wish I knew. I've got pistols that are 90+ years old with plunger tubes so well staked that they feel like they've been welded on, and I've seen (new) Colt's plunger tubes come loose within days of purchase. Go figger...

[SW1911PD]

My SW1911PD's plunger tube came loose, on inspection, the rear "leg" has sheared off. S&W have offered to replace the tube (the pistol isn't old) but I sure hope it doesn't happen again.

All the other posts in this thread appear to concern the legs working loose, is a sheared leg that common?

[David Rose]

I don't recall a sheared leg, but have seen lots of "unstaked" ones. Just did one today.

David

My SW1911PD's plunger tube came loose, on inspection, the rear "leg" has sheared off. S&W have offered to replace the tube (the pistol isn't old) but I sure hope it doesn't happen again.

All the other posts in this thread appear to concern the legs working loose, is a sheared leg that common?