1911 Nra

[Michael Edmonds]

I need some help. A 1911 Colt (S/N 146XXX) has come available to me that has "NRA" rolled marked under the serial number. No other changes to the pistol other than I do not find "United States Property" on the left side. Any help with what this might be? Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks and may God Bless.

[OD*]

Do you have any pictures of it?

[Michael Edmonds]

No, I am sorry I don't. We are in the process of getting a digital camera but don't have it yet. If you can, ask me pointed questions and I will try to answer. Thank you for you consideration. Michael

[OD*]

I assume it's a USGI sold through the old NRA program, that someone removed the United States Property mark from . Serial dates it to circa, 1917.

Hopefully, Exitwounds will be along shortly to give you much more information on your pistol. ;)

[Michael Edmonds]

Is it worth purchasing if it has been refinished with a very good job being done. The bore is like a 90 year old bore should look like. Strong lands and grooves, no pitting but a little dark at the muzzel. There is a "H" and "P" stamped on the barrel so you can see them in the ejector port, on top of the barrel. The grips look to be original to the pistol. The magazine is a two tone.

[Scott Gahimer]

Any 1911 pistol is worth purchasing, provided you don't overpay for it. The USP being removed and the refinish pretty well kills the collector interest altogether.

If purchasing it myself, I wouldn't pay anything more than the price of a decent, refinished shooter. The N.R.A. marking might add a little interest, but the lack of the United States Property marking significantly offsets that. The refinish? It is what it is...a $600-800 refinished shooter.

I think most collectors would still prefer a plain jane refinished gun with all the markings intact. So, don't pay for a collectible when you're not getting one.

[exitwounds]

The pistol falls into the correct serial number range in which NRA marked pistols were pulled from. The barrel should have the P over H when the barrel is pointed vertically. The fact that it is refinished, and the USP removed, will seriously diminish any collector value it had. Verify the barrel markings are correct as I pointed out above. If it can be obtained at a reasonable price it would be a good candidate for a restoration. The NRA marking should appear as N.R.A. and just below the serial number. Pictures would be of help, if you are able to provide any.

[Michael Edmonds]

Dear exitwounds; The P and H are there as you described. The N.R.A. marking is also as you described, with the periods between the letters being very faint. The USP, if held in the light, can be seen ever so faintly. Are these rare enough to have restored? Are there people capable of doing a restoration on something like this? I appreciate your help and will take what all of you have said as gospel.
Thanks again, Michael

[exitwounds]

There are only about 95 Springfield Armory and 47 Colt pistols presently known as being NRA marked making them rather rare and desirable in original condition. A restored pistol will likely never have the Collector value of an original specimen, but the rarity is what would make that one a good candidate for a restoration IMO. Someone such as Bill Adair (www.restoration-gunsmith.com) could do the job for a fair and reasonable price. Keep in mind the pistol in question has been reduced to shooters grade prices, but may or may not bring a slight premium over a standard 1917 USGI pistol of the same vintage because of it's rarity, but the lack of the USP would likely kill any premium, likely a $600 - $900 pistol IMO. Therefore if could be purchased for a reasonable price it would be a good candidate for a restoration.

[Scott Gahimer]

I would beg to differ about what makes an N.R.A. marked pistol rare and desirable. I don't think it has to do with the numbers of pistols reported as having the N.R.A. marking. In fact, some of the those pistols reported are fakes.
The list of numbers generally referred to as "N.R.A. guns" has contributions by collectors and non-collectors alike. Some of those pistols have later been seen by someone knowledgeable, and have been determined to not be authentic.

The reason I believe the refinished pistol in question is not a good candidate for restoration is because the only way to determine and verify the originality and authenticity of the N.R.A. marking is by examining it on an original finish pistol. The N.R.A. markings have distinct characteristics, that once refinished are lost forever. A pistol already refinshed, and then again refinished (even with a quality restoration) doesn't stand a chance of resembling an authentic N.R.A. marked pistol.

Many N.R.A. markings have been faked, and a restored pistol will never rise above that status in value. Anyone can add an N.R.A. marking to a pistol. Once refinished a couple times, there is no way to differentiate between a marking that was "added" and one simply refinished over.

I've seen probably a dozen "added" markings on guns "in the range". There are several thousands of guns "in the range". Once refinsihed, they're all worth about the same...that of a refinished gun. In fact, I believe the N.R.A. marking becomes a liability on a refinished pistol, because the marking will always be questioned as a fake by those who view it later.

I'd think long and hard before I spent my money on such a pistol, and I sure wouldn't attach value to the marking. Interest?... maybe. Value...no. Clearly opinions vary.

The bright side of this is that I've seen a few faked markings on otherwise original pistols. Someone thought they'd add some value, and all they did was destroy value in those cases. At least the gun you are looking at isn't original, and you should not be pursuaded to pay a premium for it based on the marking.

As an aside, there are other known barrel markings now determined to be original on some pistols in ca. the 130xxx-155xxx range +/- Colt serial range, but not mentioned in any of the books. Until the range and markings are further verified with more original pistols, I won't elaborate on that right now. If someone has an original pistol somewhere in that 25,000 (1916-1917 mfg.) serial number range with a different barrel marking, I'd love to hear about it, and especially see it through e-mail or in person. Thanks.

[Michael Edmonds]

Thank all of you. Your help is most appreciated. It is up to me now as to take it or leave it. I will let you all know when I do decide. If I do purchase, I will try to get some photographs on this site for you all to look at. The amount of money that has been discussed here is where we are in negotiations.
Thank you and may god Bless,
Michael (hiredhelp)