Mag Release that holds Magazine Higher?

[1911Art]

Is there a mag release that holds the magazine higher in the frame than a stock release?

This is needed for a Caspian framed Marvel 22 conversion unit.

I've tweeked the Colt Ace mags so they will feed reliabliy -about 99%- by spreading the mag lips which had the effect of raising the cartridge relative to the slide.

Now I have a AA conversion mag that has the same problem - the slide catches the cartridge half way between the rim and bullet tip - crushing the cartridge body as it trys to move it forward to feed it. The lips on this mag are not adjustable.

Seems like I remember some brands of mag releases hold the magazine higher???

[Bud White]

EGW makes one i have one

Not on thier site last time i checked but they have it on flea bay or give them a call

[robot1911]

If you're trying to slowfeed with that AA mag...forget it! It won't work. That mag is designed to feed by slingshotting.
If the slide is catching the round mid-case while firing, it means the slide isn't recoiling far enough to the rear for it to catch the base of the round and push it forward. Could also mean the mag spring isn't strong enough to push the round up fast enough to be caught by the slide face.

Bob

[Lazarus]

Bob, the problem you are describing seems to exist in the .45 frames from Vermont also. It may be that your magazine is sitting too low, but more likely the barrel is sitting too high. For some reason, information on the proper frame bed height has gone missing at Caspian. That's the only explanation I have for it because I have 3 frames made by them, spaced out over about 6 years. All of them have had a 'nominal' frame bed. That means that the height is up to the customer to figure out, and is always too high by .010" to .020". Naturally, when the bed is lowered, the feed ramp is affected, as is the barrel linkdown. If possible please post a photo of the gun getting ready to feed a round. Thanks.

-Lazarus

[robot1911]

I don't think the cradle height would be relevant here because we're talking about a conversion unit. The barrel on these units rests on the top of the frame rails. I've never seen one that has been held off by the cradle, but I suppose it's possible...though the slide's alignment would be affected.
BTW, I've built a ton of match-grade 1911's on those Vermont frames and nearly every one had to have the bed lowered...among other things!

Bob

[gbw]

I don't think the cradle height would be relevant here because we're talking about a conversion unit. The barrel on these units rests on the top of the frame rails. I've never seen one that has been held off by the cradle, but I suppose it's possible...though the slide's alignment would be affected.
BTW, I've built a ton of match-grade 1911's on those Vermont frames and nearly every one had to have the bed lowered...among other things!

Bob


I'd be interested in the 'other things' you had to change or adjust on the frames, as would many others, I'd guess. (There is a very long sticky about lowering these frame beds on a pistol I did a while back). Thanks.

[robot1911]

Okay, here'a go. First, the frame rails were not long enough, front to back. We all had to grind down the back of their slides to match the frame...this has been fixed.
The trigger bow channels were not machined right.
The trigger guard has a hump on the bottom that needs to be filed off to accommodate trigger shoe fitting.
The sides of the trigger shoe opening in the frame usually have burrs that scratch the sides of the trigger shoe.
Many times the frame feed ramp was the wrong angle and too short.
Can't think of any other areas right now, but this is enough!

Bob

[Lazarus]

Whew! Thought I was the only one that objected to some of these minor flaws. Vermont tells me discriminating 'smiths everywhere demand these features. That's one way of putting a positive spin on things, I guess.

There have been a number of comments in the stickies relating to frame bed height. I think we've all noted that this dimension is important, but it is good to remember that a particular bed height dimension can't be correct all by its little self. The whole placement of the VIS, vertical stacking up to the slide locking recesses, frame ramp and magazine well all must have a proper relationship. At this point I think we realize that a frame with a shallow bed means generally that ball ammo will not feed smoothly even in a Colt magazine. But I don't think we've really dealt with what is necessary to correct this type of problem. Obviously the bed has to be lowered, but this step by itself is not enough, and that's what is defying the laws of physics, so to speak.

Expressed in another way, we can tell that something is wrong, but don't know exactly what to do to fix it. Guess you could say that about a lot of things. Ever seen a saxophone made into modern art? I mean where a perfectly good musical instrument is flattened by a hydraulic press and placed in a nice frame? I'd like to make a few works of modern art from these Vermont frames and send them back as wall decorations.

-Lazarus

[1911Art]

I got the EGW mag catch - Thanks Bud White. The EGW catch holds the magazine .020" higher. It turns out it was just enough to get the AA magazine working perfectly in my Marvel Unit 1. I shot 300 rounds yesterday with zero malfunctions.
The problem was the slide ran over the case rim and hit the case about 1/2 way dragging it forward to jam against the feed ramp and mashing the cartridge. I couldn't get through a magazine without the problem.
I had the same problem with steel Marvel/Colt Ace mags - I got those functioning about 99% by opening the lips which had the effect of raising the cartridge.
The EGW mag catch was a much easier fix for me than lowering the frame which is something I don't know how to do.
My first impression of the AA all plastic mags was that they were kinda cheap but after loading and shooting them my view has changed - they load easy, no loader is needed unlike the steel Colt Ace type mags and they seem very durable and they're about $15 less then the steel Marvel or Colt mags.
Now if I can get my AA conversion for my Glock 17 to quit stove piping I'll have it all.

[robot1911]

Here's a clue for that Glock stovepiping. There's a possibility it's the extractor. To check it, put a spent case in the chamber, close the slide firmly, then slowly pull the slide back to full recoil. If the case drops out before it gets to the ejector, the extractor is too long and the claw is not putting pressure on the rim of the case.
I'd try it 3 or 4 times...just to make sure. And if the extractor does hang on to it, the problem lies elsewhere.

Bob

[robot1911]

BTW, AA does make a mag loader for the 1911 conversions. It's identical to the Glock loaders, only thinner. I suspect if you complain to AA by phone, they'll send you one for free.

Bob