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garrettwc
24th March 2007, 21:48
Every once in a while a member posts a message wanting to know who made their magazines. This thread is intended to be an all inclusive list of the various codes and identifying marks used on 1911 magazines. Please feel free to add verified codes that I may have missed and include any images you may have.

Colt Factory Magazines
Colt uses or has used several subcontractors over the years. These magazines are usually identified by the Colt pony on the baseplate, and a couple of letter codes that indicate the finish and the subcontractor. These are the codes for those magazines.

M=Metalform
C=Checkmate
O=Okay Industries
G=?

Here is a pic of a Colt magazine. The second letter "s" indicates a stainless mag.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_1527.jpg

On a side note, Metalform sells a 1911 magazine under their own brand as well. This magazine has their company logo in place of the "m" used on the Colt contract mags.
Here is a pic from our e-zine of the Metalform baseplates by John:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/reviews/metalform/smallimages/Pict2240.jpg

GI Magazines
(from 1911Tuner)
Look on the toe of the floorplate for a letter identification. It'll be a single letter. S G L R One of the four.
On the bottom, you may notice two letters...one will be a C with a hyphen between'em...but the letter on the toe identifies the manufacturer.
S=Scovill
G=General Shaver
L=MS Little
R=Risdon
Umarked=Colt

The C+one of the letters identifies a Colt contract with whichever vendor made the magazine.

A CAGE code on the bottom of the floorplate is a post-war USGI magazine

Some of the early post-war magazines were marked with the above manufacturer codes, or were assembled from surplus components. The qualify as genuine, though not exactly era-correct...and it's beyond my eyeball skills to determine the difference.

Cage Codes
This is a list of known cage codes posted by Doran

MFR. 8R611
KASCO METAL PRODUCTS
Status: P - Cancelled Without Replacement Record Parent
BROOKLYN, NY 11200
Date CAGE Code Established: 4/8/1979

MFR. 30745
MASON-RUST CO
Status: F - Obsolete Record Parent
PITTSBURGH, PA 15200
Date CAGE Code Established: 11/4/1974

MFR. 1M291
CHECK-MATE INDUSTRIES INC
Status Code: ACTIVE
777 MOUNT AVE
WYANDANCH, NY 11798-0000
Date CAGE Code Established: 1/11/1975

For cage codes not listed see this website:
https://www.bpn.gov/bincs/begin_search.asp

I don't have a photo of a cage code baseplate. If anyone has one please add it to this thread. Thanks.

Hunter
24th March 2007, 22:31
Great thread Garrett.

OD*
24th March 2007, 22:40
OKAY INDUSTRIES INC
CAGE Code: 33710
Status: A - Active Record
Address: 200 ELLIS ST
City: NEW BRITAIN
ZIP: 06051 - 3547
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineColtmoderncontractOOk.jpg
Photo courtesy of Doran.

METALFORM COMPANY INC
DBA HOOK-FLEX DIVISION
CAGE Code: 8U197
Status: A - Active Record
Address: 555 JOHN DOWNEY DR
City: NEW BRITAIN CT.
ZIP: 06051 - 2435

Garrett, do we know for certain "G" represents Mec-Gar?
I have e-mailed them (Mec-Gar) several times and have not as of yet received a reply.

W.W. I era magazine contractors

A - on top lip of base - American Pin Co., Waterbury, Conn.

B - on top lip of base - Barnes & Kobert Mfg. Co., New Britain, Conn.

L - on top lip of base - M. S. Little Mfg. Co., Hartford, Conn.

R - on top lip of base - Risdon Tool & Machine Co., Naugatuck, Conn.

R - on bottom lip of base - Raymond Engineering Corp., New York, NY.

W.W. II era magazine contractors

(Military magazines have the "letter" on top of the toe,
Civilian magazines have the "letters" on the bottom of the toe)

Unmarked - Colt's Patent Fire Arms Mfg. Co.

L - on top lip of base - M. S. Little Mfg. Co., Hartford, Conn.

L - on top lip of base - C-L on bottom lip of base - M. S. Little Mfg. Co. (subcontracted for Colt)

R - on top lip of base - Risdon Tool & Machine Co., Naugatuck, Conn.

R - on top lip of base - C-R on bottom lip of base - Risdon Tool & Machine Co. (subcontracted for Colt)

S - on top lip of base - Scovill Mfg. Co., Waterbury, Conn. (Scovill acquired American Pin Co. in 1923)

S - on top lip of base - C-S on bottom lip of base - Scovill Mfg. Co. (subcontracted for Colt)

G - on top lip of base - General Shaver Division of Remington Rand, Bridgeport, Conn.

================================================

005.. Colt PFA punch and slot or keyhole; Springfield Armory loop and no loop; Colt CAL.455 ELEY
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=266034&postcount=15

010.. American Pin Company with several letter styles; Barnes & Kobert Mfg Co: WWI
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=266037&postcount=16

015.. M.S. Little Mfg Co: WWI and WWII
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=268238&postcount=20

020.. Ridson Tool and Machine Co, later Ridson Mfg Co: WWI and WWII
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=270627&postcount=32

025.. General Shaver Div of Remington Rand: WWII
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=279409&postcount=39

030.. Scovill Mfg Co: WWII
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=283646&postcount=42

035.. Colt WWII contractor supplied L C-L, R C-R, S C-S and S C-R factory errors
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=283823&postcount=43
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=317578&postcount=66

040.. Pinned style baseplate removed from magazine and last style pinned baseplate construction
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=290991&postcount=46

045.. Remington-UMC baseplate compared to Colt baseplate
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=293366&postcount=48

050.. Colt prewar round O font vs squashed O font
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=323678&postcount=69

055.. Norway production
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=342005&postcount=70

060.. fake USGI compared to genuine and genuine Colt factory magazine packaging
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=362060&postcount=75

065.. factory marking errors WWII contractors
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=388660&postcount=79

070.. misc/other maker markings
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=391818&postcount=83

075.. 1950s USGI magazine wrapping
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=391824&postcount=84

080.. 1940s USGI magazine wrapping
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=391824&postcount=84

085.. VCI protective paper examples. Table of military specification MIL-P-3420 revision dates for PACKAGING MATERIALS, VOLATILE CORROSION INHIBITOR TREATED, OPAQUE
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=397252&postcount=86

090.. 1960s USGI magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=402300&postcount=87

095.. 1970s USGI magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=414074&postcount=88

100.. 1980s USGI magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=423682&postcount=89

105.. 1990s USGI magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=442251&postcount=90

110.. Cooper Ind possible prototype 1911 magazine
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=483370&postcount=96

115.. Argentina Sistema matching magazines and others courtesy of member scipio
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=503124&postcount=98

120.. Argentina Ballester handshake mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=503353&postcount=99

121.. Argentina Ballester 4 pointed "star" mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=950344&postcount=307

125.. Argentina HAFDASA early magazine (HA mark)
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=506783&postcount=102

130.. Argentina Ballester F in oval mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=513878&postcount=103

135.. Argentina Sistema .22 calibre conversion magazine (Establecimientos Venturini)
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=523184&postcount=109

140.. Argentina Ballester .22 calibre conversion magazines (Industrias Marcati) and original .22 calibre Ballester magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=525764&postcount=110

145.. Argentina Halcon Ind magazine marks (Metalurgica Centro)
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=543127&postcount=114

150.. Establecimientos Venturini, Industrias Marcati and Metalurgica Centro histories courtesy of member Hafdasa
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=530966&postcount=111
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=549257&postcount=115

155.. Argentina Sistema Navy replacement magazine mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=559799&postcount=116

160.. Argentina Ballester Escarapela mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=573288&postcount=123

165.. Argentina Ballester Navy mark
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=603664&postcount=131

170.. Colt Commercial magazine marks
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=603668&postcount=132

175.. Argentina Ballester low serial number magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php...8&postcount=136 (http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=631958&postcount=136)

180.. Drain hole date information concerning Checkmate USGI magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=671360&postcount=159

185.. General Officer pistol Serial No. GO 830 with numbered magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=724344&postcount=172

190.. Wheels and Eagles, National Match marks applied to magazines
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=732137&postcount=174

195.. modern fake G magazine speculation
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=849728&postcount=263

200.. fake 30745 magazine information
http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=915574&postcount=280

(Expanded index work courtesy of member Doran)

Bud White
24th March 2007, 22:53
Excellent Info Thanks Guys

garrettwc
25th March 2007, 22:00
Garrett, do we know for certain "G" represents Mec-Gar?
I have e-mailed them (Mec-Gar) several times and have not as of yet received a reply.
The word I got from Tuner was 95% sure. I tried to edit the post and add that addendum, but it wouldn't let me so I am making the note here. Thanks for the additional GI contract info.

OD*
26th March 2007, 01:05
I don't believe they are Garrett. Doran has a letter from Mec-Gar saying that they didn't make the G stamped magazines. I also posted a response in the other thread as well.

garrettwc
26th March 2007, 09:03
Thanks OD. I can't edit the original post it appears. Will the forum software allow a mod to edit and change G=Mec-gar to G=??? and then we could take out the extraneous discussion? I think some folks might just take a quick glance and not read our follow up comments.

OD*
26th March 2007, 09:41
You're welcome Garrett.

Yes sir, we can edit the thread. Doran has been gracious enough to offer us some pictures of different magazines from his collection and also a scan of the Mec-Gar letter. I'll wait until those details are worked-out before I do any editing, if that is agreeable with you sir (technically, it is your thread).

garrettwc
26th March 2007, 12:34
Perfectly agreeable OD*.


technically, it is your thread
Naw, I just got the idea to start it. It was intended as a resource for the community and belongs to all who contribute useful information to it.

OD*
26th March 2007, 12:42
Thank you Garrett. ;)

Doran
26th March 2007, 16:11
I asked Mec-Gar if they were the G supplier or knew who was:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineresearchlettertoMec-Garabou.jpg

garrettwc
27th March 2007, 16:47
Follow up question on cage codes:

19200-5508694-30745

I know that the "30745" denotes Mason Rust manufacture from around 1974 era. What do the first two sequences of numbers represent?

OD*
27th March 2007, 16:56
I wonder if that doesn't denote that they are 7rnd magazines for the 1911A1, or something to that effect? I could swear Check Mate used that same number (5508694) with the listing of the 7 round magazines (their product page is unavailable currently).

garrettwc
28th March 2007, 00:02
Found the answer on jouster.com

19200=Federal Supply Code(basically what business category/budget does it fall under)

5508694=Part Number(assigned by government and would apply to all 7 round 1911 magazines)

30745=Cage Code(identifies manufacturer)

Doran
29th March 2007, 17:14
Colt PT. F.A., Springfield Arsenal

Second major variation of Colt magazines called keyhole or punch and slot. The hole and slot were added to prevent cracking in the corners of the notch at the back of the magazine. A change of alloy for the material eliminated this necessity for the keyhole in later magazines.

A collector friend provided these excellent pictures of two of his keyhole magazines.

http://i32.tinypic.com/20s67fa.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/nvbjno.jpg

=====================================

Springfield Arsenal produced magazines prior to WWI that differed somewhat from Colt. Springfield magazines exhibit folded magazine tube bottoms with the baseplates attached by welding. The heat treatment method also differed giving original condition Springfield magazines a unique color and appearance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine15Springfieldloopandn.jpg

These pictures show two different style baseplates, loop and no loop. No loop style came about with a Mar1916 dwg revision to eliminate the loop. These were the end of Springfield Arsenal production and relatively scarce compared to the loop style.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine10Springfieldloopb-1.jpg...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine10Springfieldnoloopba.jpg

Vettepartz provided this photo showing some unique features of Springfield production. The copper braze area stopped carbon impingement which promoted brittleness and cracking at the rear of the magazine. Springfield production also featured two tone followers. I don't have proof but suspect these followers were tempered similar to the two tone magazines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/VPSpfdbasecopperbackfollower31jul10.jpg

=======================================


Member Mexican Kerry graciously agreed to share this photo of a CAL . 455 ELEY magazine. This example also carries the pistol serial number.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineColt455ELEY102546MexicanKerry01may11.jpg

Doran
29th March 2007, 17:29
American Pin Company of Waterbury, CT produced magazines during WWI with pinned bases and two tone finish. The A is often partially struck or filled in to look more like a V. I have observed several shapes of letters but all Roman font (with serifs) and the letter base points toward the magazine body.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineA01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineAthreestylesoffontRayP07jul.jpg
Photo by member Ray P.

==========================
==========================

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineB01.jpg

Barnes & Kobert Manufacturing Company of New Britain, CT produced magazines during WWI with pinned bases and two tone finish. I have only observed Gothic font (without serifs) but have seen the letter base point either toward the magazine body or toward the magazine lip. This is the only WWI mfr I've seen which definitely stamped both directions.

OD*
29th March 2007, 18:35
Excellent, thank you Doran.



And thank you Pappy.

garrettwc
29th March 2007, 23:22
Pappy and Doran, thanks for the photos. Illustrations are always helpful.

I found out some more information on the Federal Supply Code at the beginning of the cage code.


19200, 19203 and 19204 = Rock Island Arsenal, Rock Island, IL

19207 = U.S. Army TACOM in Warren, MI(from notes on their website, they are part of the Army's R&D command and have some association with Rock Island Arsenal)

So to decode the magazine in Pappy's photo we have the following:

19204-Issued to Rock Island Arsenal
5508694-7 round GI 1911 magazine
1M291-Manufactured by Check-Mate

OD*
29th March 2007, 23:30
That's some great info, Garrett. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Doran
2nd April 2007, 17:49
M.S. Little Manufacturing Company of Hartford, CT produced magazines during World War I and World War II.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine15LGB2BPTT.jpg
World War I production with pinned baseplates and two tone finish. All I've seen have Gothic font style with the letter base pointed toward the magazine body. Two tone MS Little magazines in excellent condition are among the hardest to find in this area of the country.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine20LRB2BPBL.jpg
Early World War II production with pinned baseplates, blue finish and Roman font style pointed toward the magazine body. There are also welded baseplates with this font style which I believe are early welded production as I have seen very few welded baseplates with the Roman font style.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine25LGB2BWBL.jpg
Late World War II production with welded baseplates, blue finish and a return to the Gothic font style pointed toward the magazine body. These are the most commonly encountered MS Little magazines.

If anyone has variations of the MS Little magazines not shown I would appreciate pictures.

OD*
2nd April 2007, 23:12
Thank you Doran, keep 'em coming amigo.

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 14:08
Here is a photo of an unmarked USGI Colt M1911A1 magazine and it's components. Extruded tube, welded floorplate. The first image is a linked image due to the forum's photos size restriction. I don't want to compromise the detail of the photo so I didn't resize it.

Overall Detail Photo of Magazine (http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/ColtUSGIWWII.jpg)

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/USGIMagBody.jpg http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/USGIFollower.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/USGISpring.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 14:10
And here's a Metalform sub-contracted Colt Officer's Model magazine.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/ColtOMMetalformMag.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 14:32
Colt sub-contracted Stainless Steel magazines. From Left to Right:

Metalform sub-contracted - Officer's size (6 round)
Metalform sub-contracted - Government size (7 round)
Metalform magazines have beaded blasted floorplates and the bottom end of the body is "frosted".

Checkmate sub-contracted - Officer's size (6 round)
Checkmate sub-contracted - Government size (7 round)
Checkmate magazines have brushed floorplates without "frosted" bottom ends (body is all one finish)

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/ColtMagsSS01.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 15:42
Checkmate USGI (modern production) contract magazine.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/1M291-FP.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/1M291-OA.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 20:03
And a pair of Scovill mags. WWII, Pinned Floorplate, Serif typeface "S" toe-tags.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Scovill02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Scovill01.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 20:30
General Shaver - WWII, Deep Welded Floorplates, Welded Back Spine, Sans-Serif "typeface G" toe-tag.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/General_Shaver01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/General_Shaver02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/General_Shaver03.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 21:01
And a pair of Scovill mags. WWII, Pinned Floorplate, SANS-Serif typeface "S" toe-tags.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Scoville2-01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Scoville2-02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Scoville2-03.jpg

RECCE556
3rd April 2007, 21:02
Risdon - WWII, Sans-Serif "typeface R" toe-tag.


http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Risdon01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/Risdon02.jpg

ArmscorBA
3rd April 2007, 21:49
I think we have entered the second level of magazine ....
;) :D :D
Ivan

jbrooks
5th April 2007, 00:57
Incredible! :D

One other thing I discovered tonight, and may have already been discussed, is the "tuning fork" sound that really fine mag bodies make when the guts are removed and struck against a metal surface.

I disassembled 2 old USGI mags, 2 CMI mags, an odd-ball from MFR 30745 (Mason Rust Co), and a Mec-Gar 8-rounder.

The 2 USGI and the 2 CMIs were the only ones to have a distinct long-lasting (several seconds) tuning fork ring when struck against the slide of my RIA. This tells me they are very well heat treated and "spring-like".

The next contender was the one from Mason Rust Co, but it was noticeably more of a "clang" than a fine ring.

Final place was the Mec-Gar, which gave a simple "clunk" sound.

Not very scientific, I know, but it does say something about the heat treatment of the old USGI mags and the CMIs, IMO.

jbrooks

Doran
7th April 2007, 06:36
Ridson Tool and Machine Company of Naugatuck, CT produced magazines during World War I. Ridson Manufacturing Company of Naugatuck, CT produced magazines during World War II. I believe these to be the same company with a name change between the wars.

=====

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine30RGB2LPTT.jpg
World War I Ridson magazines have pinned baseplates and two tone finish. All I've actually observed have Gothic font with the letter base pointed away from the magazine body. I've seen one picture of a magazine where the letter possibly pointed the opposite direction but that may have been a partial B.

=====

Ridson produced fully blue pinned and welded baseplate magazines during World War II. They seem to follow the other makers in that early production was pinned with Roman font and the letter base pointed toward the magazine body followed by a short period of Roman font welded baseplates.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine35RRBTBPBL.jpg

=====

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine40RGB2BWBL.jpg
The majority of World War II production featured welded baseplates and a return to the Gothic R but pointed toward the magazine body. This style Ridson magazine is the most commonly encountered.

As always, I would appreciate pictures of any variations not shown so far.

niemi24s
11th April 2007, 23:34
Hopefully someone with one of these in better shape who knows how to take better pix will post one. In the meantime, . . . .

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p232/niemi24s/P4110002a.jpg

OD*
12th April 2007, 00:02
Kasco Metal Products, that's a new one on me, thanks.

garrettwc
12th April 2007, 16:51
Kasco Metal Products, that's a new one on me, thanks.
Kasco cage code was issued in 1979 (see my original post in the thread). This is one of the last cage codes issued before the conversion to the M9 in the early 80's. It was not renewed after the first issue run. That's one of the first ones I've actually seen.

OD*
12th April 2007, 20:49
Indeed you did, but hey, that was three pages back. Apparently the ol' memory ain't that good anymore. :D

garrettwc
13th April 2007, 00:32
Apparently the ol' memory ain't that good anymore.
I figured it was just frosted over from all this "spring" weather we've been having.

OD*
13th April 2007, 07:56
Thank goodness for global warming huh? ;)

Doran
21st April 2007, 16:07
The General Shaver Division of Remington Rand produced fully blued magazines during WWII with a Gothic font G; top pointed toward the magazine body. These magazines differ in construction from other WWII contractors with more heavily spotwelded baseplates and spotwelded backs. Some are very lightly stamped and large variation exists in the placement of the G with many examples located off center and/or partially covered by the magazine body.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineGcenteredgoodstamp30m.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineGB2L27aug04back.jpg
=====

This next example may represent a pinned version: possible with the timing of the contracts. I used a mirror and scanner to capture the letter and pasted the inset of a normal General Shaver magazine mark for comparison. Notice the more Roman-like font style of the pinned magazine. Due to several factors I believe this magazine may be Argentine. If someone believes they posses a pinned General Shaver I would very much like to see a picture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineGmaybepinnedwregularG.jpg

OD*
21st April 2007, 16:35
Fantastic, Doran, thank you. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif




I wondered where you had been.

garrettwc
23rd April 2007, 00:03
Fantastic, Doran, thank you.
+1 this thread is really getting some good information and you are a big part of that.

Doran
29th April 2007, 08:04
Scovill Manufacturing Company of Waterbury, CT produced magazines during WWII.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine74SRB2BPBL11oct03.jpg
Early production with pinned baseplate, blue finish and Roman font. Letter base pointed toward the magazine body.
=====
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine76SGB2BPBL17jan05.jpg
Later production with welded baseplate, blue finish and Gothic font. Letter base pointed toward the magazine body. Like the other WWII mfrs some welded examples exist with Roman font as shown in the pinned example above, likely early welded production.

As always, I would appreciate pictures of variations not shown.

Doran
29th April 2007, 17:13
The other WWII magazine mfrs supplied Colt with semi-finished magazine tube assys later in the war where Colt completed the magazine. The original mfrs letter is stamped on top of the toe with C-R (Ridson), C-S (Scovill) or C-L (Little) stamped on the bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine02C-RC-SC-L29apr07-2.jpg
=====
Oddities exist with S stamped on top of the toe but C-R stamped on the bottom, possibly a component transfer between Scovill and Ridson ordered by the Pistol Integration Committee. I know of one more like example owned by another member of the forum. I used two mirrors and a scanner to capture the image.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine03SC-R21nov05.jpg

Please post any variations not shown.

OD*
29th April 2007, 17:16
Doran, many thanks for all your work and contributions to this thread, my friend. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

OD*
7th May 2007, 09:36
Pictures added.

Doran
13th May 2007, 08:12
All WWI era (except Springfield Arsenal) and early WWII magazines featured pinned baseplates but sometimes pins are difficult to detect looking at the outside of the magazine body. Often the heads smear and are actually welded to the body itself. Removing the follower and looking inside the magazine at the top of the baseplate is often the only sure way to determine pinned or not. Look for the pin "tunnels" shown in the pictures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine78baseplatepinnedbase.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine80baseplatepinnedbase.jpg

=====
This picture shows the last style of pinned baseplate as per the final revision to the pinned magazine dwg. I believe this style with the relieved center was meant to avoid the deep hole drilling opreation, a difficult task with such small drill bits.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine82baseplateNumber2sty.jpg

OD*
13th May 2007, 09:13
Thanks, Doran. http://forum.m1911.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

Doran
18th May 2007, 06:40
Remington-UMC produced unmarked two tone magazines for pistol production and spares during WWI. Similar to Colt production except slightly shorter baseplates. Photo provided by Vettepartz.
.
.
.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/UMC-MagC.jpg

flyfish
22nd May 2007, 19:01
Very infromative thread! I always learn someting new on this site

Thom m
8th June 2007, 08:47
I have a magazine that is marked COLT .45AUTO on the base in two rows,COLT on top, nothing else. Is it Colt or some other ?

OD*
8th June 2007, 09:24
Do you have any pics?

Doran
8th June 2007, 16:25
Examine the first post in this sticky. Modern Colt factory magazines have round lettering like that. Lettering squished vertically indicates fake. Pictures help most as OD* says.

RECCE556
8th June 2007, 19:27
What about one that is marked without the decimal point in front of the 45...just like this...

COLT
45 AUTO

The font is the older style Colt "squashed" font. I don't think it's fake as it's OLD and it has a pinned floorplate with full USGI style feed lips.

Also have a old one with a welded floorplate marked as such:

COLT
.45 AUTO.

OD*
8th June 2007, 22:33
COLT
45 AUTO

1970s and newer.

COLT
.45 AUTO.

1960s era.

Doran
9th June 2007, 06:34
The first 45 marked Colt magazines from the '30s exhibited horizontally squashed lettering with a decimal point after AUTO. and continued until WWII. However, I think one roll die had a round O since I have seen a few.

I don't normally collect "modern" magazines but I seem to notice modern Colt magazines, except probably the last of production, had decimal points while most modern contracts did not. I believe I've seen Colt marked Metalform magazines without the M or decimal points but that's just a guess. Perhaps someone has pictures to prove this one way or the other.

I'm told Colt attempted to stop the fakers using COLT 45 AUTO on their magazines but the fakers claimed it was a safety issue to keep people from using the wrong magazines in their pistols. That may be the reason Colt added the rampant colt mark to their baseplates but the fakers quickly added that mark also.

RECCE556
9th June 2007, 13:39
Thanks for the info guys. So Colt still used the old style squashed font on 70's + pinned mags? I figured this was was way older...like 40's-50's...


Now another questionable mag...

General Shaver marked "toe tag" ("G"), folded over and welded spine (just like General Shavers are known to have), welded floorplate (the weld marks are of a decent size...say roughly between 1/8" and 3/16" indents), USGI style follower but here's the part that's throwing me off, the feed lips aren't USGI style. They're sorta in between the newer style "short lips" and the USGI style lips. Basically like the short lips (with the abrupt style opening) but longer. No drain hole and the bottom of the floorplate is unmarked and nicely fitted with no gaps between the mag body sides and the floorplate.) BTW, the lips do NOT look like they were modified...looks like a factory job.

Any clues to the legitimacy of this mag? Era?

OD*
9th June 2007, 13:47
Man, that is a good question (for Doran! ;))

Doran
9th June 2007, 16:13
Thanks for the info guys. So Colt still used the old style squashed font on 70's + pinned mags? I figured this was was way older...like 40's-50's...
Colt stopped using pinned baseplates and the squashed font during WWII. Initial magazine production after WWII featured the round style font, however the first pistol deliveries after WWII utilized left over military magazines.


Now another questionable mag...

General Shaver marked "toe tag" ("G"), folded over and welded spine (just like General Shavers are known to have), welded floorplate (the weld marks are of a decent size...say roughly between 1/8" and 3/16" indents), USGI style follower but here's the part that's throwing me off, the feed lips aren't USGI style. They're sorta in between the newer style "short lips" and the USGI style lips. Basically like the short lips (with the abrupt style opening) but longer. No drain hole and the bottom of the floorplate is unmarked and nicely fitted with no gaps between the mag body sides and the floorplate.) BTW, the lips do NOT look like they were modified...looks like a factory job.

Any clues to the legitimacy of this mag? Era?
Difficult to say what you have without pictures but General Shaver sanding patterns on the body are parallel to the base, not perpendicular like other WWII production. Most have a fairly high polish on the bottom of the baseplate.

RECCE556
9th June 2007, 17:26
Colt stopped using pinned baseplates and the squashed font during WWII. Initial magazine production after WWII featured the round style font, however the first pistol deliveries after WWII utilized left over military magazines.

Here are some picts of the Colt Mag with the squashed font...I just noticed that is does have a period after 45 AUTO...so it's...


COLT
45 AUTO.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag03.jpg

RECCE556
9th June 2007, 17:30
Here are the picts for what seems like a General Shaver mag...just the lips are throwing me off...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag03.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag04.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag05.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/gs_mag06.jpg

OD*
9th June 2007, 19:39
Here are some picts of the Colt Mag with the squashed font...I just noticed that is does have a period after 45 AUTO...so it's...


COLT
45 AUTO.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag01.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag02.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/colt_mag03.jpg
That style was used in the 1947-1960 era.

Doran
10th June 2007, 06:59
The General Shaver magazine looks correct. It exhibits the horizontal sanding pattern but the baseplate doesn't appear as polished as most. The feed lips on two of mine look the same.

The Colt looks correct for lettering and construction but might be refinished. I'll have to differ with OD* as I believe ~1933 to ~1942-3 depending on a possible refinish.

OD*
10th June 2007, 09:55
Doran,

You now more about them than I do, but wouldn't 1933 to 1942-3 be two tone? (unless they were refinished as you stated) The mag looks to be pinned in the second photo (does it to you?), could it be one of the leftover prewars?

Doran
10th June 2007, 10:15
1933 - 1938 are two tone and the rest blue to the end of production during WWII. The magazine is pinned. Very possibly a leftover shipped shortly after pistol production resumed post WWII. The finish looks dull on my monitor which leads me to believe a possible refinish.

OD*
10th June 2007, 10:21
Thanks Doran.

I hate to admit it, I hadn't even noticed the magazine was pinned when I answered RECCE556, I went by the base plate markings. :o

Doran
2nd July 2007, 11:42
Oddities exist with S stamped on top of the toe but C-R stamped on the bottom, possibly a component transfer between Scovill and Ridson ordered by the Pistol Integration Committee. I know of one more like example owned by another member of the forum. I used two mirrors and a scanner to capture the image.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazine03SC-R21nov05.jpg

Please post any variations not shown.

I've managed to obtain a better example of the S C-R magazine. Now three known examples but likely many more exist. I used baking powder to highlight the lettering. I prefer this method to paint or crayon as it easily wipes off with an oily rag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineSC-Rbetterconditionma.jpg

wwhitby
2nd July 2007, 17:36
Kasco cage code was issued in 1979 (see my original post in the thread). This is one of the last cage codes issued before the conversion to the M9 in the early 80's. It was not renewed after the first issue run. That's one of the first ones I've actually seen.

I've got two of them that I bought at a gun show back in the early 90s. They've always worked fine.

Warren

Scott Gahimer
5th July 2007, 13:16
The General Shaver magazine looks correct. It exhibits the horizontal sanding pattern but the baseplate doesn't appear as polished as most. The feed lips on two of mine look the same.

The Colt looks correct for lettering and construction but might be refinished. I'll have to differ with OD* as I believe ~1933 to ~1942-3 depending on a possible refinish.

The Colt magazine is one manufactured from ca. 1933 up to about November 1942. In 1942, when Colt suspended their commercial sales to the public, commercial mags were also transferred over to the military contracts. On whatever day it happened...it happened. At that time, the mag bases stopped being marked, and surfaces stopped being polished to commercial standards.

Magazines that were already commercially finished were refinished. Part of the refinishing process involved machine sanding/polishing to a coarser grit and hand sandblasting those areas that couldn't be or weren't machine sanded/polished...which usually include the base, around the inspection holes and up by the rolled lips.

If you look closely at most of these transferred and refinished mags, you can see sandblasting overspray extending slightly up the sides of the body, and often still some signs of sandblasting around the holes, which are sometimes slightly depressed. Normally there are signs of the sandblasting up where the lips roll over.

Many of the magazines that were refinished apparenty were not thoroughly cleaned after the surface preps were made, and prior to being re-blued. I suspect this was due to a rushed job, or perhaps a digruntled employee not being happy about having to rework a beautifully finished mag into one with a ho-hum military finish. "All that work for nothing?" may have been the thought.

Whatever the reason, some magazines' surfaces were not properly prepared or cleaned to receive the new finish. Many of these magazines display a lot of flaking and browning...just exactly like many "black army" pistols. (I'm convinced that eliminating the final step of polishing on those pistols is not the primary reason most of the pistols' finishes flaked off. I believe the coarser surface was tougher to thoroughly clean and dry, and that the finish wouldn't take well in the first place unless the surface was totally clean and dry. Some black army guns still have a nice finish on them. Most do not. I'm convinced it all depends on how well the surface was cleaned...not on the level of polish used.) Same is true with the mags.

Now back to the topic...There are also pinned base magazines that were transferred over to the military contracts which have an unmarked base which has been sandlasted. For a long time I thought the markings had been obliterated by the sandblasting, but have decided otherwise after looking at several of these mags and thinking it through. I've concluded these mags had been commercially polished, but were constructed with bases that had not yet been marked. So, these mags still had to have their surfaces prepared to meet military specs, which involved sandblasting the bases and re-sanding/polishing the bodies of the mags. I've got maybe 20-30 of these C/M magazines (some with marked bases; others without) in various pistols in my collection. A lot, if not all, the C/M transfer pistols came with them (most I suspect having marked bases), as well as other pistols in the mid-1942 to early '43 serial ranges.

The welded base contract mags that replaced these C/M mags I believe were introduced in late 1942, based on information provided in Clawson's first book. I have one early '43 Colt pistol, s/n 903204, that I acquired from a family member of the veteran, along with his early and all original 90,000 serial range Du-Lite blued Inland carbine. The pistol came with it's 1943 dated holster and mag pouch, along with all three Colt pinned base magazines which have the sandlbasted unmarked base. Condition is about 98-99% on the pistol and magazines. The veteran was an officer, and I'm convinced he was issued the pistol and mags together when they were new.

The magazine shown by RECCE556 does appear to possibly be refinished. But with the photos, it's difficult to say if it's been refinished commercially. If there is no visible overspray from the sandlbasting up the sides of the body and on the mag base and other protected areas...then I'd say it's probably been re-done in recent years. Additionally, the finish should first be inspected to see if it displays the proper characteristics of a WWII Colt mag.

I believe Colt military mags were two-tone up until the 1940 guns came out. I'm not exactly sure what evidence Clawson used to determine that, but he indicates that, too, in his books.
I base my opinion on a 1939 Navy I bought years ago that came right out of the woodwork from a fellow who'd received it as a gift from a retired Marine who supposedly was issued the pistol new. It had a beautiful military finish pre-WWII two-tone mag in it that matched the condition of the pistol...about 97+%. That '39 Navy is now in Mr. Clawson's collection. I paid $900 for it back then, when the going price was about $2500. I didn't chisel the guy on price. $900 is all he wanted, based on the fact that the gun shops were only willing to pay $600 for it then.

Doran
14th July 2007, 16:42
The first 45 marked Colt magazines from the '30s exhibited horizontally squashed lettering with a decimal point after AUTO. and continued until WWII. However, I think one roll die had a round O since I have seen a few.
I obtained the upper magazine from a gentleman in Argentina who said it came from a pistol in the C180XXX range. It features the "round O" style font. Of the few I've seen with this style font most have been with Argentina pistols but I don't know if that is significant. If someone has this style magazine they believe original to their pistol I would appreciate learning the approximate serial number.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/stickymagazineCOLT45AUTO.wroundvssquashedfont08jul 07.jpg

Doran
19th August 2007, 13:42
I often see magazines on internet auctions or at shows represented as Colt loop magazines that are instead Norwegian manufacture. Generally, these magazines have heavier grind marks around the baseplate pins and the loops often not perfectly semicircular. While excellent quality magazines they do not command the price of Colt manufacture.

The two tone version in the bottom row was not heat treated but instead dipped in dye while the middle bottom is plated steel and the left example phosphate finished. Top row are arsenal refinished versions of the ones below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinenorwegian6eaLHSb.jpg

RECCE556
28th August 2007, 01:58
While we're on the top of Norwegian mags, here's the one that came with my Norwegian M/1914 ser. 27XXX (1942). The finish is worn (nearly all "silver") and the machining is pretty rough. Grind marks are present all over (as some of the photos show). Definitely not as nice as most USGI mags.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-2.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-3.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-4.jpg

RECCE556
28th August 2007, 01:58
The rest of the Norwegian magazine photos...

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-5.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-6.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-7.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-8.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/recce556/Norwegian-Mag-9.jpg

I'mGatMan!
5th September 2007, 20:07
Cage Codes
This is a list of known cage codes posted by Doran

MFR. 8R611
KASCO METAL PRODUCTS
Status: P - Cancelled Without Replacement Record Parent
BROOKLYN, NY 11200
Date CAGE Code Established: 4/8/1979

MFR. 30745
MASON-RUST CO
Status: F - Obsolete Record Parent
PITTSBURGH, PA 15200
Date CAGE Code Established: 11/4/1974

MFR. 1M291
CHECK-MATE INDUSTRIES INC
Status Code: ACTIVE
777 MOUNT AVE
WYANDANCH, NY 11798-0000
Date CAGE Code Established: 1/11/1975

For cage codes not listed see this website:
https://www.bpn.gov/bincs/begin_search.asp

I don't have a photo of a cage code baseplate. If anyone has one please add it to this thread. Thanks.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/qban1026/10-GI-45-ACP-7-RD-MAG.jpg

I got this pic from AmmoMan.com. I didn't see anything about using their images, but if there are any complaints, I'll remove the pic.

J

TrapperJohn
9th September 2007, 08:40
The mags pictured above are suspected fakes, and there have been numerous complaints about them. I wish I had read this thread

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=36260

before I bought a dozen of them. Buyer Beware!

On mine, the followers weren't quite right, causing the mags to get caught on the slide lock and get stuck in the magwell.

Doran
28th September 2007, 08:01
Several recent threads ask how to avoid buying fake magazines. Buying factory direct or from a reputable dealer like Brownell's or comparison to a known genuine magazine remain the best methods. One good indicator is new price since reliable magazines are not cheap or easy to mfr. So $7 for a single magazine at a gunshow may not be a good deal after all. I'm told small sheet metal assys sell for as little as $1 per pound in the Far East. I believe most of the recent fakes originate there. The two most common ones:

=== G marked "Colt" magazines (also occasionally C or M)

The past forum representative for Colt provided a list of codes/makers that included the G mark but he was unable to id the G maker at that time. Some speculate the G mark once represented Chip McCormick. I've written and emailed CMC asking if G represented them in the past but received no replies.

Normal original Colt packaging seen at gunshows or internet auctions consists of blister wrapping on cardboard. The later cardboard color seems to be silver but I've seen older brown/yellow and blue/yellow I thought authentic. Be wary of any wrapped "Colt" magazines not packaged this way.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

=== MFR 30745

The US Govt supposedly rejected a batch of Manson Rust magazines which later sold on the surplus market. I've seen examples I believed authentic that look like a normal late GI contract magazine.

Ones seen recently bear no resemblance to a genuine GI magazine. The witness holes are too large and too high up on the magazine tube. The feed lips are wadcutter style. The tubes are thin and have a "tinny" feel as do the followers. Most sell loose but some come sealed in a paper pouch marked Ludlow. I've written the Ludlow company about this style wrapping but no reply yet. Ludlow produced the VPI paper wrapped around many late GI magazines.

Late GI packaging normally consists of heat sealed plastic sleeves with contract numbers and a date printed directly on the sleeve or on a label inside the sleeve. The magazine is normally wrapped in brown VPI paper or silver on one side. Be wary of any supposed late GI wrapped magazines not packaged this way.

=========================================
Ross6860 provided these pictures of a suspect USGI contract magazine to the left and a genuine USGI to the right. Observe the witness holes too large and too far up the side of the magazine tube and the non-spec welds attaching baseplate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinefake3074501feb09LHS.jpg

Baseplate nomenclature and feed lips.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinefake3074501feb09baseplate.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinefake3074501feb09feedlips.jpg

Suspect follower to left and USGI to right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinefake3074501feb09followers.jpg

Front welded seam.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinefake3074501feb09frontseam.jpg

==================================================

"Be wary of any wrapped "Colt" magazines not packaged this way."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/Coltfactorypackaging1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/Coltfactorypackaging2.jpg

bigron8911
15th October 2007, 08:21
Checkmate USGI (modern production) contract magazine.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/1M291-FP.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/1M291-OA.jpg


recce556 i have a mag that exactly resembles the one pictured here, the holes in the side are the exact same, in number of them space and positition with the exception that there are absolutely no markings from the manufacturer on it at all anywhere, and i cant check the inside because i am too new to handguns to take it apart how do i go about finding out who the manufacturer is i would post some pictures of it but i will have to have my fiance do it cause i screwed it up last time. thanks to you or anyone else that may have an answer for me.

bigron8911
15th October 2007, 08:29
sorry didnt realize that it wouldnt show the pics it is the second link right that shows the side of the mag. thanks

RECCE556
15th October 2007, 15:38
recce556 i have a mag that exactly resembles the one pictured here, the holes in the side are the exact same, in number of them space and positition with the exception that there are absolutely no markings from the manufacturer on it at all anywhere...
That magazine resembles about a million others unfortunately as the hole pattern (# and spacing) is USGI spec. Does it have a drain hole on the front bottom of the magazine or is it solid?

If you can take some good photos of it, that might help. A photo of the lips/follower, floorplate, top of the toe of the floorplate and the spine would help.

Doran
21st November 2007, 09:30
Ridson and MS Little bottom marked baseplates

I obtained this Ridson magazine at the Tulsa show several years ago. The baseplate appears installed upside down which indicates WWII era baseplates carried the contract letter before installation and not stamped afterwards. I believe some WWI contract magazine makers hand stamped at least a few baseplates after installation, especially American Pin.

Raymond Engineering marked some pinned, two tone magazines with a R on the bottom of the baseplate during WWI. This Ridson magazine has a welded baseplate and is fully blue, normal for WWII production.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineRRidsonBaseplateUpsideDownl.jpg

I would appreciate seeing pictures of any other makers with bottom stamped baseplates.

===================================
A fellow collector provided pictures of his bottom marked MS Little magazine compared to a normal example.
.
.
.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineLittlebottomstamp22aug09bot.jpg.
.
.
Note the break away angles on the edges of the baseplates are opposite between the two magazines.
.
.
.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineLittlebottomstamp22aug09top.jpg
.
.
.
I don't have a side view of the baseplate edge but the Ridson magazine exhibits the same reverse break away angle. Also notice the slightly shallow letters due to grinding off the excess magazine tube to flush with the baseplates.



====================================

A fellow collector provided this picture of a bottom marked Colt subcontract Ridson magazine; very interesting example.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineRC-RwithbottommarkedRandove.jpg

==========================================

Member mpd1978 provided this photo of a double stamped General Shaver magazine; another very interesting example.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/doubleGstampfrommpd1978.jpg

OD*
21st November 2007, 10:54
Thanks for the submission and info, Doran.

Happy to see you're still above ground. ;)

Haven't seen you in awhile.

Doran
21st November 2007, 11:10
Still kicking so far.;) I intend to post some wrapped magazine pictures soon but I have a gunshow table this weekend. Have to keep the old priorities straight you know.:D

OD*
21st November 2007, 11:42
Good luck at the show, Doran.
It's good to see you again my friend.

Doran
28th November 2007, 13:07
Killeen Machine and Tool marking

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineKilleenMachineTool30aug10.jpg
(photo provided by member 762x51)
.................

This magazine mark posted some time ago but not identified at that time.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php...0&postcount=232

Recent information indicates this mark and magazine as Brolin Arms by Metalform.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineBrolinArmsbyMetalform29jan12.jpg
(photo provided by cudajimmy)

Doran
28th November 2007, 13:10
Quality Hardware produced contract magazines during the early 1950s. The MIL-L-3150 spec identifies the preservative oil used to coat the magazine. I've not seen many unopened wrappers and probably not many produced so soon after WWII with all the magazines likely remaining in govt inventory.

The fake USGI magazines today seem to follow this 50s style outer packaging but excluding the inner wrapper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineQualityHardwareJul53inwrapp.jpg

The inner wrapper consists of a red waxy paper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineQualityHardwareKoreamayb-1.jpg


==============================

Another style 1950's wrapped magazine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinewrapped1953Dec30B006-550869.jpg

B006-5508694 MAGAZINE ASSY
Method 1A ANC-124-2
30 DEC. 1953

Unwrapped examples contained new late WWII contract magazines.

==================================

Aug. 1955 style wrapper with foil on inside surface. This example contains a new welded Scovill magazine with gothic font. Nomenclature somewhat difficult to read but I believe it states:

Z021-5508694
MAGAZINE.
QTY. -1-
PRES.METHOD 1A8/W/VCI
OSD.NORV...8/55

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract8-195530aug10top.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract8-195530aug10bottom.jpg

Inner wrapper

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/OD1911A1/d9062f59.jpg

Please post pictures of any other style 50s vintage wrappers or Quality Hardware with other dates.

Doran
1st December 2007, 08:39
Usually identified as field replacement wrap but also termed mummy wrap. Sometimes observed with boxed pistols. Green wrap typically wax impregnated muslin or possibly linen. Reddish Brown wrap sometimes cloth but usually a heavy paper product. Normally wrapped individually but I've observed as many as ten magazines per pkg in the green wrap. Some observed with paper label in French exhibiting mfr, 1944 date and ordnance bomb symbol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedgreenwaxmusl.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineLittlewrappedMars15-1944Ste.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineRwrappedApril24-1944Stephan.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinewrappedflamingOrdbomb.jpg

================================================== =====================================

Below probably leftover magazines the pistol mfrs wrapped for storage. I've observed many war time dated wrapped small parts from the pistol mfrs but no dates on these likely post-war wrappers. Also a name chg from Colt's PT.F.A. to Colt's Manufacturing occured in 1947 but then back again in 1955 which likely dates the wrapper to between those two years. Some of the Colt labeled wrappers have contained C-X contract magazines.

I don't believe I've seen a US&S wrapper and have never seen a Remington Rand wrapper. Perhaps another member has examples of these to post or any other variations.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedColtandIthac.jpg

Doran
7th December 2007, 11:26
VCI paper
Several mfrs produced VCI paper used to wrap later contract magazines. I've observed various brands although some paper does not exhibit the mfr name. The paper is produced in large sheets and/or rolls and likely a piece size required to wrap magazines is not large enough to show all the printing in some instances.

Some examples:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractLudlowwrappersil-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/militarycontractLudlowwrapperbrownS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/militarycontractwrapperbrownApr92.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractVPIpaperLudlowfromn.jpg
(Picture provided by member nightfire800)

1960s VCI paper appears similar in weight and thickness to kraft paper. The later paper is heavier, thicker and occasionally found aluminized on one side. Please post any variations not shown here.

------------------------------

The following table lists the revision dates of the MIL-P-3420 specification for PACKAGING MATERIALS, VOLATILE CORROSION INHIBITOR TREATED, OPAQUE paper. Beware of claims by some sellers who claim their magazines are earlier than the rev dates printed on the VCI paper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/MIL-P-3420revdates_zps899efcf7.jpg

Doran
16th December 2007, 08:15
My sincere appretiation to Mr. Bill Ricca who recently provided the names of the contractors for these 1960s magazines.

Contract information printed on the outside of heat sealed plastic sleeves. The ink stamp wears off so not many 60s contract magazines have clear nomenclature.

I've not observed the contract nomenclature on the baseplate bottoms of known 1960s magazines. The 1968 magazine likely should have the VPI (Vapor Phase Inhibitor) paper wrapper. I would think if any contractor went to the expense of the VPI wrapper it was a requirement and not optional.

1965
DA-19-058-AMC-1307(W) contract for Seymour Products, Seymour, CT let 1965. Shipped Apr1966.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDA-19-058-AMC-1307Wforsticky_zps74cabe89.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDA-19-058-AMC-1307Wforsticky_zps74cabe89.jpg.html)
Photo courtesy 363mp.

1966
DA-19-058-AMC-1379(W) contract for Seymour Products, Seymour, CT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedJul66.jpg

1967
DAAG25-67-C-1866 contract for Seymour Products, Seymour, CT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedOct6716jul05.jpg

DAAF05-67-C-0006 contract for Seymour Products, Seymour, CT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/0006magazine.jpg
Photo provided by Bill Ricca

1968
DAAG25-68-C-0929 contract for Apex Metal Stamping, Brooklyn, NY
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedNov68.jpg
without VPI paper wrapper in this example, likely a mfr error.

1969
DAAG25-69-C-0842 contract for Apex Metal Stamping, Brooklyn, NY
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/0842magazine.jpg
Photo provided by Bill Ricca

As always, please post pictures of any different style or year 60s wrapped magazines you may have, especially any variations in VPI wrappers.

I recently aquired these 60s contract magazines. Note the heavy spotwelds commonly seen on USGI magazines of unknown vintage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0210wrappers.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0211LHS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0212baseplate.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0213back.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0214follower.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/DSC_0215toe.jpg

==========================================
Bluemoon furnished these USGI contract magazine photos with 1966 dated VPI paper. No evident date on the wrapper but possibly worn away. Also, the nomenclature differs somewhat from the later examples.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract1966fromBluemoon-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract1966fromBluemoon27m.jpg
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I recently obtained these two examples. Evidently a nomenclature chg happened sometime in 1966-7.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineresearch1965and1967nomenclaturechange18feb 12.jpg

Doran
6th January 2008, 17:49
1972 example by Seymour Products, Seymour, CT.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0364packed4-72SeymourProducts05jan13_zps4d794334.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0364packed4-72SeymourProducts05jan13_zps4d794334.jpg.html)

Opened example showing the heavy spotwelds common to 1960s and 1970s contract magazines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedJan71or77may.jpg

Seymour Products 1971 contract shipped 10/72 Contract: DAAF01-71-C0554
Unusual example with the contract nomenclature stamped directly on the aluminized VPI paper, only time I've observed this method.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0554packed10-7207sep13_zpsabdd3e49.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0554packed10-7207sep13_zpsabdd3e49.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0554packed10-7207sep13magazineRHS_zpsbdd8fa29.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF01-71-C-0554packed10-7207sep13magazineRHS_zpsbdd8fa29.jpg.html)

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1974 example by Laka Tool and Stamping, Westbury NY.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF03-73-C-1652packed9-74LakaToolandStampingWestburyNY20aug12_zps028a5031 .jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractDAAF03-73-C-1652packed9-74LakaToolandStampingWestburyNY20aug12_zps028a5031 .jpg.html)

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1976 example by unknown mfr without nomenclature stamped on the plastic sleeve or printed directly on the VPI paper or on a printed label inside the sleeve.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/militarycontractLudlowwrapperSep76.jpg
=====


1978 example by Checkmate Ind with aluminized VPI wrapper and loose label inside sleeve; first occurrence I've observed of this style packaging.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract1978Checkmate18apr1.jpg
=====


1979 example by Checkmate Ind.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedDec7923jul05.jpg

Doran
20th January 2008, 12:35
SKS brown VPI paper and Ludlow aluminized VPI paper with contract labels inside the plastic sleeves. Unwrapped examples I've observed contained Checkmate USGI contract magazines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedSep80andJun8.jpg

As always, please post any other mfr, style or date 1980s wrapped contract magazines you may have.

Doran
17th February 2008, 17:56
Nomenclature label and Daubert VPI wrapper inside heat sealed plastic sleeve. Examples I've unwrapped contained Checkmate USGI contract magazines. The 1990s were the end of high volume 1911 magazine contract purchases.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractwrappedApr92.jpg

I recently obtained this example; only 1993 dated I've ever observed. Note this label resides on the outside of the sleeve instead of inside and lists the mfr cage code.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontract1993Checkmate08jan11.jpg

As always, please post any other mfr, style or date 1990s wrapped contract magazines you may have.

SEMPERJACK
1st April 2008, 12:29
Mag.to my 1911A1 Ithaca "warbaby" 7 rnd.Top Lip of Toe the capital ltr."R" no markings on bottom plate,indicating a RisdonTool&Machine,Correct ? Would like to know the value of Mag. its a bit beat but works flawlessly. Thanks again

1911Tuner
1st April 2008, 13:10
Mint condition/used...spot-welded base...about 30 bucks. A "Bit beat" but functional, about 20.

OD*
1st April 2008, 13:34
Top Lip of Toe the capital ltr."R" no markings on bottom plate,indicating a RisdonTool&Machine,Correct ?
Correct.

..

SEMPERJACK
2nd April 2008, 11:33
1911Tuner & OD-You have answered my questions,Thank You for your time and info.

OD*
2nd April 2008, 13:11
You're welcome, Sir.

Doran
13th April 2008, 17:43
Possible prototype magazine with Cooper Industries cage code; only example I've ever seen. Cooper Industries made M16 magazines for the US Govt and perhaps attempted to gain a contract for 1911 magazines. Observe the different style nomenclature on the baseplate. I attemped contact with Cooper about this magazine but received no reply. I would appreciate any information about an actual contract if one existed.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazinecontractMFR030389CooperIndI.jpg

Doran
18th May 2008, 16:56
I am preparing some pictures of Argentina magazines. Several companies made magazines in Argentina and some have interesting stampings representing these companies or govt agencies.

I'm sure some other members with Argentina pistols will also have some interesting pictures to share.

scipio
18th May 2008, 17:31
Here are some examples of M1927 and a Ballister Molina mags. The first 3 are a rare group of 3 matching M1927 mags. Pistols were issued to the Argentine Army with 3 mags. Mag 71566 is a variation with the clasping hands proof. Last is a Ballister Molina mag with diamond logo.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk40/scipio-2008/m1927mags003.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk40/scipio-2008/m1927mags007.jpg

Doran
19th May 2008, 06:25
Another handshake magazine close to scipio's. Handshake marked magazines were issued with 5000 Ballester-Molina pistols purchased by the Eva Peron Foundation in the early 50s to arm a private milita. The lowest numbered handshake magazine I've encountered was 61305. With that exception all other magazines I've observed fall in the 7X,XXX range. A mystery remains concerning these low magazine serials since by the early fifties Ballester pistol serial numbers should approach 100,000. Handshake marked pistols exist in the 9X,XXX range.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaEvaPeronFoundation.jpg
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Not knowing the significance of the mark at first I posted the photo on the forum. The mark was identified with the help of several forum members.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=20439
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scipio
19th May 2008, 16:48
Most of the Sistema mags I have encountered have been like the 3 matching ones that I posted. The clasping hands,I guess, appears to run in a specific serial range. Duran, is that 63,000 series mag a clasping hands one? I have not seen numbered Ballister mags. We need more examples.

Doran
19th May 2008, 17:44
I saw the 61305 handshake magazine at the last Tulsa show. I've tried to clarify the post above with additional information.

Doran
25th May 2008, 17:15
Somewhat difficult to see but the mark represents a stylized HA enclosed in a diamond. H in the left position and A to the right. A good graphic of the mark exists in Charles Clawson's Commercial Series book.

Unusual magazine as the font more resembles Sistema style than the block style Ballester font shown in examples above and the only serialized HA I've observed. Perhaps someone else has a serialized HA magazine picture with Ballester block style font.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaHA13826-1.jpg
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Doran
8th June 2008, 08:08
Second variation Ballester magazine with F in oval and heavy block style Ballester font. I don't have an excellent example of this style and nearly all I've observed exhibit heavy use. Perhaps another member has a better picture to share.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaBallester51835Fino.jpg
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Some Ballester magazines exhibit a lighter stamped font than the normal heavy block style.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineBallester36522Finovallightfont11may13_zps2 998832e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Doran/media/magazine%20sticky/magazineBallester36522Finovallightfont11may13_zps2 998832e.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaEvaPeronFoundation.jpg
.

scipio
8th June 2008, 10:14
Finding a BM with a matching mag would certainly be a challenge!

Doran
8th June 2008, 15:43
I can't remember ever seeing a Ballester pistol with matching magazine. I agree that would be a unique find.

memphismeister
21st June 2008, 23:35
I am beating my self up identifying my colt 1911 navy mag sn/51xx.
Ive gone through this posting to no avail.
All I can find marking wise is what appears to be an H on one side and a V on the top.
Any help is appreaieated
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00005.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00006.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00007.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00008.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00009.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00010.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00011.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00012.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00013.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00014.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00015.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00018.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm112/rman63/DVC00004.jpg
Thank you

memphismeister
21st June 2008, 23:38
note, picture three does not show the V clearly

Doran
22nd June 2008, 07:57
Issued Colt military magazines of that era did not carry marks. Difficult to say what those represent.

Doran
28th June 2008, 18:59
Argentina produced conversion magazines for Sistema .45 calibre pistols converted to .22 calibre. Nearly all I've observed exhibit the electro-penciled serial number on the side of the tube.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentina22conversionsn8275.jpg
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Note the ejector is built into the left feed lip of the magazine eliminating the neccesity for the seperate ejector in the Colt .22 conversion.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentina2210sep05feedlipst.jpg
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The magazines also feature "tube within a tube" construction with the inner tube sized to fit the round. Note also the HiPower-like construction.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentina22conversiondisass.jpg
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I don't have an example of a non-conversion .22 calibre Sistema magazine but am told they replicate Colt Ace magazines. Perhaps another member has a picture of a non-conversion .22 calibre Sistema magazine to share.

Doran
4th July 2008, 17:36
These Ballester .22 calibre magazines exhibit very unique construction. Notice the upper magazine catch "slot" only bumps out to engage and occurs on both sides of the magazine. The lower magazine catch slot appears milled after completing the magazine. The witness slots pierce only the right side of the tube.

These magazines do not utilize the normal zig-zag type spring to raise the follower. A round follower spring rides in the tunnel formed at the front of the magazine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaBallester22convbot.jpg

Ballesters exist as both conversions and originally .22 calibre but I don't know if the magazines differ. I've only observed one original .22 Ballester and didn't have the presence of mind to ask to see the magazine. Perhaps another member has an original .22 calibre pistol and could post some pictures of an original magazine.

Edited to add;

Mr. Norbert Ertel of Adams and Spencer, Inc. has graciously agreed to share photos of the magazine with an original .22 caliber Ballester Molina.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineBallesterMolina2223may09RHS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineBallesterMolina2223may09LHS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineBallesterMolina2223may09bas.jpg

=========================================

I recently obtained this Ballester Molina 22 calibre magazine from South America. Note the blue finish and absence of baseplate nomenclature normally seen on Ace magazines.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/ArgentinaBallesterMolina22calibe-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/ArgentinaBallesterMolina22calibe-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/ArgentinaBallesterMolina22calibe-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/ArgentinaBallesterMolina22caliberma.jpg

Hafdasa
15th July 2008, 20:17
Two argentinian companies converted a number of caliber .45 pistols into caliber .22 guns. One of these companies was Establecimientos Venturini. The magazines that were used by Venturini are of the pattern shown in Doran's post dated June 28. Venturini converted a large number of Sistema Colt pistols to caliber .22 but only a few Ballester-Molina. The other company that undertook this task was Industrias Marcati. Marcati used for their conversion the magazines shown in Doran's posting dated July 4. These magazines are believed to be the magazines that Marcati used in the caliber .22 rifles of their manufacture but modified to fit in the magazine well of the caliber .45 pistols. This is the purpose of the spacer that appears on the rear of the magazine. Marcati converted a large number of Sistema Colt and Ballester-Molina pistols as well. Almost all known Ballester-Molina pistols that were converted to caliber .22 LR were converted by Marcati.

The conversion undertaken by Industrias Marcati and Establecimientos Venturini was an "aftermarket" project, meaning that these companies converted pistols originally made in caliber .45 ACP and had no relationship with either HAFDASA or the DGFM-FMAP.

The DGFM-FMAP did not manufacture pistols in caliber 22 LR or converted pistols originally made in caliber 45.

HAFDASA manufactured a number of Ballester-Molina in caliber .22 LR. These pistols are for practical purposes clones of the Colt Service Ace, meaning that they were built at the factory for the rimfire cartridge. Due to the fact that the caliber 22 Ballester-Molina pistols were built as such and are not the product of a conversion, their workmanship and overall quality is outstanding. If my memory deserves me well, the HAFDASA magazines are very similar, if not the same as those of the Colt ACE.

Doran
19th July 2008, 07:59
Thank you for the additional information concerning Argentina conversion magazines. Reviewing some past correspondence with other collectors I remembered the Ballester magazines, not the Sistema, closely resemble or are possibly unmarked Colt Ace magazines. Mr. Clawson's Commercial Series book shows pictures of a Sistema .22 calibre prototype that apparently never made it to full production.

OD*
20th July 2008, 22:30
Thanks for the additional information added to post #15, Doran.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=266034#post266034

Doran
10th August 2008, 08:46
Two marking styles of Halcon magazines. A fellow collector in Argentina tells me ARCEN should be ARGEN and that IND. ARGEN or IND. ARGENTINA signifies "made in Argentina." Babel fish translates HALCON to hawk or falcon. The company produced various arms and parts including 1911 barrels and magazines. These examples likely refinished with a flat black epoxy as I've also observed polished blue.

The link below provides historical information about the company but babel fish has difficulty translating some of the technical terms. It appears the company may have patented the process for hammer forging barrels but perhaps another member could give a clearer interpretation.

http://www.rs.ejercito.mil.ar/Contenido/Nro653/Td/armas.htm

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/HALCONIndARCEN-1.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/HALCONIndARGENTINA-1.jpg
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Hafdasa
21st August 2008, 19:47
The magazines shown in the last posting are replacement magazines for the caliber .45 pistols. These magazines were made by an Argentinean company with the name of Metalurgica Centro. One of the trademarks used by Metalurgica Centro is Halcon and many of their products were marked Halcon, such as submachine guns. Metalurgica Centro also made replacement barrels and other minor parts for the caliber .45 pistols.

Doran
14th September 2008, 08:23
Perhaps another member knows the maker or significance of the marking.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaNavySistemareplace.jpg

A collector with contacts in Argentina says this mark represents a stylized M for Marina, or Navy. I'd studied the mark from all angles and noticed a possible "M" but the connection to M for Marina escaped me.

garrettwc
16th September 2008, 15:34
Forum member RetiredFed contacted me off board for help in identifying a magazine that had him stumped. We have determined that it is a variation of one of the WWI American Pin Co. mags. With his permission, I am posting the notes and the images here for commentary from Doran, or anyone else that can confirm our findings, and/or give more details about this mag.


Magazine has an "A" on the lip which according to Mr Clawson's Collector's Guide, indicates an American Pin Co, Waterbury, Conn. manufacturer during WWI. However, as indicated in the photos, the mag is pinned, does not have a lanyard loop and with so much of the finish gone, hard to tell if it ever was two toned but I doubt it was. Is not spot welded on the back. Or maybe it is not an American Pin Co mag and the "A" is from another company? Any help in ID'ing this magazine would be appreciated.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/2862340159_fbbe08a95f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/2862344885_67eeed7074.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2863177354_860e955323.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2862344931_5b45e9dbed.jpg

Doran
16th September 2008, 16:10
American Pin magazine with the follower likely replaced. All issue magazines of that era exhibited pin construction and two tone finish. American Pin produced magazines during the WWI era; a couple years or so after lanyard loops ceased in 1915.

The stamps seemed to frequently fill in with metal dust, etc as many of the American Pin marks more resemble V rather than A. Wide variation in letter height and width appears although all I've observed had Roman font with the letter base toward the magazine body as this example. I also believe some production was hand stamped due to variation and partial strikes.

RetiredFed
25th September 2008, 00:31
Awhile back I was lucky enough to score a cache of .45 related ammo, holsters, belts etc. Included were a number of magazines that I'd like to share. The first pic is of two mags that were in a GI ammo pouch that I doubt had ever seen the inside of a pistol.

The other two I could use some help on. As you can see, Colt over .45 AUTO. (The one mag has a small 04 near the edge) Any idea on what the 04 means? Years that particular mag was made? Thanks in advance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/bop222/101_0613.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/bop222/101_0615.jpg

Doran
25th September 2008, 18:31
I realize that I've made an identification error concerning the upper magazine. The earlier magazines had the one mark after AUTO, not before 45, and technically the mark after AUTO is a period not a decimal pt. Decimal pts on both magazines indicates both are later style. I don't see a trace of the period in the upper magazine but that might indicate a light strike as the font looks correct, to me anyway. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

RetiredFed
25th September 2008, 21:19
Do you have a picture of the back of the bottom magazine?

Here's a shot of the rear of the mag...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/bop222/rearofmag.jpg

Doran
26th September 2008, 06:12
Some have an obvious weld seam that might be Metalform mfr but without the M code. Colt may not have required a mfr code until several vendors became involved but that's just speculation since I haven't done much research of modern magazines.

Doran
18th October 2008, 10:59
I've made several attempts over the years to obtain an identification of the mark on this unserialized Ballester Molina magazine. I would appreciate any information the members might provide.
----------------------------------------------
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/MysteriousArgentinamark02.jpg

Escarapela Argentina

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaEscarapelaArgentinacockadesymbol3 0oct10symbol6.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaEscarapelaArgentinacockadesymbol3 0oct10symbol2.jpg



A fellow collector offered this information about the unknown marking:

"The importer of these to the USA brought in a wide variety Argentine surplus with a hint of being from "Argentine Police" so could be Federal Police or Gendarmerie Nationale, which would make sense in the trickle down of the surplus chain, military 1st use, etc and why so many of the 1911 were very used and refinished.

The mags could have been made for Federal Police hence the national symbol and not an Army marking on the base, again probably as replacements for the older pistols."

I also found this forum discussion of the marking:

http://foro.fullaventura.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19318

but babel fish could not give a clear translation of some technical terms. Perhaps another member could provide some insight.

Doran
21st November 2008, 08:35
Another example of VPI paper provided by member nightfire800 added to post #87.

Bluemoon
10th December 2008, 01:55
I have learned much from this thread. Below are images of a USGI mag I acquired years ago. I didn't see any like it in this thread.

I don't have a digital camera at the moment so I scanned the label and wrapping paper, saved on Photobucket and uploaded. This is my first upload so please excuse any initial error.

The mag itself is a beautiful - blue, smooth-finished, extruded, with the prancing pony on the left of the base plate and a "C" in upper right corner. The writing on the base is:

COLT
45 AUTO

with "COLT" centered above the "45 AUTO" and with no periods.

I should also add that it was enclosed in a clear plastic heat-sealed pouch similar to other images on this thread.

Here is the label:

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/MagImage1.jpg

Here is the wrapping:

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/MagPaper1.jpg

Bluemoon
20th December 2008, 14:04
I have been informed by Doran (who researched the matter in some depth) that the magazine and wrapping I have described above is most likely bogus.

Apparently the wrapping paper wasn't manufactured until 1987 and Checkmate wasn't making mags for Colt until the 1970's.

I picked-up several of these mags off the internet several years ago from a seller with a 100% positive rating. These were advertised as USGI Colt Contract Mags. Given the seller's reputation I believe he was taken-in as well.

The motivation for this scam does escape me however. I am familiar with the Mason-Rust Cage code 30745 bogus mags (bought three several years ago) which contained very cheap mags and which in my 1950's Colt would not function at all. The mags I described above however, were of the highest quality of fit and function. Perhaps there was some period over the past twenty years when the cost spread between Checkmate factory mags and USGI mags was substantially more than when I bought the items inasmuch as I paid only an amount for the mags equal to what Checkmate mags were selling for at the time. It seems to me this is the only reasonable scenario that would justify all the trouble someone would go thru to wrap, label, and package these.

Anyway, thaks to Doran for the info.

Toscano
25th December 2008, 00:52
https://www.bpn.gov/bincs/begin_search.asp[/url]

I don't have a photo of a cage code baseplate. If anyone has one please add it to this thread. Thanks.

Here is Mason-Rust Co.'s baseplate w/numbers...
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/Capannorese/mag1.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/Capannorese/mag2.jpg

captiva
28th December 2008, 13:53
Likely fakes that were thrown in with a used Combat Commander. Maybe the third one is real?

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa157/anonymous1965/December%202006/colt100_076212-28-08.jpg

OD*
28th December 2008, 14:30
I'd say you are correct about them being fakes. The third magazine's marking are those used in the 1960s.

Doran
28th December 2008, 16:47
1, 2 and 4 are not Colt issue. The 3rd looks correct. Lately some NIB 1951 pistols have been purchased in PA and perhaps elsewhere. I've asked several owners about magazine markings and have been told all the magazines have markings like #3, about five observances. Although magazines are often replaced and nothing is certain NIB pistols are the best way to time magazine markings. I'm beginning to believe the period-decimal pt magazine marking predates the 1960s. A few owners have not yet replied.

The poster of the Manson-Rust magazine above and I have exchanged information like dwgs, etc. I believe it's safe to say the magazines are not USGI and are the same ones seen at shows for $7 or thereabouts; some also with Colt 45 Auto or unmarked.

Doran
31st December 2008, 08:34
An unknown magazine marking from a Ballester-Molina pistol. I recently obtained this clearer example of the mark and any assistance identifying the mark and/or maker would be much appreciated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaBallesterwithunknownmarkMlike19de c10close.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineArgentinaBallesterwithunknownmarkMlike19de c10.jpg

A fellow collector with contacts in Argentina believes this two concentric W's marking was used by HAFDASA to identify magazines for Ballester Molina pistols ordered by the Argentine Navy. He also said this serial is from a Argentine Navy issue pistol.

Doran
31st December 2008, 08:39
"Colt Commercial magazine styles"
__________________________________________________ ___________


Postwar commercial magazine with one "dot" (period only). Several NIB 1951 GM pistols recently surfaced with "two dot" nomenclature (decimal point and period) suggesting one and two dot magazines likely existed at the same time.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineCOLT45AUTO27jul12.jpg

----------

Post war commercial magazine with two dots. Font of this example appears more "square" than the one dot and of the 1970s+ magazines. I've observed several this style font with 1950s era pistols but can't be absolutely certain they came originally with the pistols.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineColt45AUTO1955maybe07may11.jpg

---------

I recently obtained this Colt magazine at the Tulsa show. Prewar font style but a welded assy instead of pinned and the top of the baseplate has no tunnels for pins. I first suspected a fake but the magazine appears genuine Colt mfr compared to other early welded examples so I'm assuming possible use of a leftover prewar roll die for at least a few postwar magazines. Only example like this I've discovered.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineColtprewarlikefontweldedbaseplate26nov11.j pg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineColtprewarlikefontweldedRHS26nov11.jpg

Welded i/o pinned construction.

----------

COLT CAL. 30 Luger magazine produced for LW Commander pistols exported to Italy in 1971.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineCOLTCAL30LUGER27jul12.jpg

----------

COLT .38 AMU magazine produced for the Army Marksmanship Unit at Ft. Benning, GA.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineCOLT38AMU27jul12.jpg

----------

Mickey D
7th February 2009, 17:30
I've been seeing a lot of 30745 cage marked mags latey on GB. Many in the paper sealed envelope.
The fit and finish are suspect in my eye. Are these all legit?
Anyone?

Mike

OD*
7th February 2009, 20:47
Cage code for MASON-RUST CO., me, I'd pass on them.

Doran
8th February 2009, 05:02
Post #76 shows an example of the magazines to avoid.

Doran
1st March 2009, 07:24
Low serial Ballester magazines
I recently found this four digit Ballester magazine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/ArgentinaBallesterMolinamagazine619.jpg

I believe this the lowest numbered magazine I've observed. Does anyone else have a lower number?

=====

I recently obtained this two digit magazine; only example I've ever observed less than four digit. It shipped with a pistol imported from Argentina by Sarco but was not original to the pistol.

I believe this font most similar to that used by HAFDASA for the Ballester pistols but not exactly the same. I've heard very early Ballester magazines have lighter stamped serials and fonts/stamps chg slightly over time due to wear, replacement, etc.

I would appreciate any information about service branch, etc the members might have concerning this magazine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazineArgentinaserial5322dec12baseplate_zpsac563 fb4.gif

strangms
4th March 2009, 17:33
I just picked up 2 Scovill magazines, one pined base plate and one welded.
On the welded mag it has the C-S on the bottom of the plate.
Was this done only to the welded mags, or did some of the pined ones have this also?

Thanks

strangms

Doran
6th March 2009, 07:14
What is the font style on your pinned magazine? All I've observed were Roman font.

While theoretically possible that pinned C-X magazines exist according to the big book since deliveries to Colt began before formal Ordnance acceptance of welding, I have never seen one. If anyone has a pinned C-X magazine they believe original I would really appreciate pictures.

strangms
6th March 2009, 17:31
Doran,
It has the Roman font.
This is a Great tread,Thanks for all the information!

strangms

Vettepartz
24th March 2009, 18:30
Here are some pictures of what I hope is a WWI Colt magazine that is 2 tone, pinned base, and no markings. It has extra indentations next to each of the witness holes, as if the hole-stamp machine was not quite lined up and the stamp was started then stopped. The top one looks like a crescent moon.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/MagDimple03.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/MagDimple04.jpg

Bacon
2nd April 2009, 17:57
This is another type of fake I received at a gun show last month. It came in a Series 70.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Bacon51/Colt%201911/FakeMag.jpg

strangms
7th April 2009, 15:34
I picked this up a few years ago and was wondering about the follower.
Is this the correct follower for this Magazine?

Thanks

strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03317.jpg http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03312.jpg

Bacon
7th April 2009, 16:50
I picked this up a few years ago and was wondering about the follower.
Is this the correct follower for this Magazine?

Thanks

strangms


It looks exactly like the 2 magazines that came with my Government XSE. So I would say yes, that is the correct follower for the 8 round mag.

strangms
7th April 2009, 16:59
Bacon,
Thanks for your help. I was hoping it was correct. It's one of the best magazine that I have. And I found it in a box of magazines mark $5.

strangms

azcowboy64
21st May 2009, 13:12
Hi. That is not a Risdon magazine. It is WWI Raymond Engineering mag. I have only seen one other picture of one and have never actually seen one in person. It is one of the most rare of all WWI/WWII mags. In my my opinion, it is the MOST rare war mag.

Eric

OD*
21st May 2009, 16:10
I picked this up a few years ago and was wondering about the follower.
Is this the correct follower for this Magazine?

Thanks

strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03317.jpg http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03312.jpg
Can't tell from your picture, is that an O on the base plate.

log man
21st May 2009, 16:17
I picked this up a few years ago and was wondering about the follower.
Is this the correct follower for this Magazine?

Thanks

strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03317.jpg http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC03312.jpg
Yes it is the correct follower and is a CMC patent number. Looks like a C.

LOG

Doran
21st May 2009, 16:28
Hi. That is not a Risdon magazine. It is WWI Raymond Engineering mag. I have only seen one other picture of one and have never actually seen one in person. It is one of the most rare of all WWI/WWII mags. In my my opinion, it is the MOST rare war mag.

Eric
Which picture are you referring too?

Doran
21st May 2009, 16:40
I picked this up a few years ago and was wondering about the follower.
Is this the correct follower for this Magazine?

Thanks

strangms

http://usera.imagecave.com/strangms/DSC03317.jpg http://usera.imagecave.com/strangms/DSC03312.jpg
I can't read the letter clearly either. Is it an O or a C or ?

azcowboy64
21st May 2009, 19:00
Which picture are you referring too?

Sorry, I guess I got a bit lost. You had a picture of a magazine with an "R" stamped on the bootom and referred to it as a Risdon. Risdon only stamped the R on the top of the toe. An R on the bottom is a rare Raymond engineering mag.

Eric

Vettepartz
21st May 2009, 19:46
What is the font style on your pinned magazine? All I've observed were Roman font.

While theoretically possible that pinned C-X magazines exist according to the big book since deliveries to Colt began before formal Ordnance acceptance of welding, I have never seen one. If anyone has a pinned C-X magazine they believe original I would really appreciate pictures.
While looking at a lot of 'magazine' posts, I saw your old one mentioning possible C-X with pinned bases. I have this one which looks as if it has small pins and marked C-S on Bottom and S on top. Not the big spot welds, nor the big pins. The last picture shows it on top of a magazine marked R, for comparison purposes.
I found this in a Tupperware container that I inherited from my Dad. It had a bunch of other magazines, springs, and an almost brand new HS barrel. This magazine is in almost new condition. My Dad was a career Army man, and was a 1st Sergeant in the MP's. Back then, 1st Sergeants had a way of 'acquiring' just about anything they wanted. He also loved shooting the M1911.
I don't know for sure if this is a pinned baseplate because the 'pins' look so small. Let me know if more pictures are needed.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/C-SMag01.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/C-SMag02.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/C-SMag03.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/C-SMag04.jpg

Doran
22nd May 2009, 05:32
Sorry, I guess I got a bit lost. You had a picture of a magazine with an "R" stamped on the bootom and referred to it as a Risdon. Risdon only stamped the R on the top of the toe. An R on the bottom is a rare Raymond engineering mag.

Eric
The magazine shown has a welded baseplate while WWI Raymond Engrng magazines have pinned baseplates. I'm reasonably certain the magazine shown is Ridson.

Doran
22nd May 2009, 05:38
The easiest method to determine pinned or not is to remove the follower and look at the baseplate from the inside. Post #47 show what the top of a pinned magazine should look like. I believe your CS magazine has a welded baseplate but you should remove the follower to determine that for sure.

Vettepartz
22nd May 2009, 21:30
The easiest method to determine pinned or not is to remove the follower and look at the baseplate from the inside. Post #47 show what the top of a pinned magazine should look like. I believe your CS magazine has a welded baseplate but you should remove the follower to determine that for sure.
I took out the follower and looked inside and did not see any tunnels on the baseplate that would hold the pins, so this is a welded one. Thanks for that guidance, Doran.

Doran
26th May 2009, 06:17
Additional information added to post 80.

OD*
26th May 2009, 13:51
Additional information and pictures added to post #111 also.

dsh82
30th May 2009, 23:22
So I just read the whole 16 pages and I have a question. I just picked up 10 surplus magazines. All marked 19200-ASSY 5508694 MFR.1M291. I know what they are, so no questions there. But... Some have drain holes and others do not. When was the change made regarding drain holes? All are most certainly authentic.

Dan

OD*
31st May 2009, 07:39
When was the change made regarding drain holes?
The 1970s for Commercial Models, I believe the contract magazines were around that same time. Doran should know with certainty.

Doran
1st June 2009, 06:01
The earliest Checkmate contract date I found on the internet is 1984 but someone with access to Haystack might find earlier ones for us.

Of the eight Checkmate magazines I use for shooters four have drainholes but four do not, however, I have no idea about dates on these.

I examined these open ones; 1976 unmarked and the rest Checkmate or Kasco. I should add I don't know the maker of the unmarked magazine:

No cage code:
1976 dated paper - no drain hole

Packing dates (Checkmate cage codes unless otherwise specified):

1978 dated label - no drain hole
1980 dated label - no drain hole
1981 dated label - no drain hole
1982 dated label - no drain hole (Kasco cage code; 1981 contract date; packing date 11/82)
*1983 dated label - no drain hole (1983 contract date; packing date 9/83)
1984 dated label - drain hole (1983 contract date; packing date 1/84)
1985 dated label - drain hole
1986 dated label - drain hole
1989 dated label - drain hole
1992 dated label - drain hole
1993 dated label - drain hole

*[most recent addition(s)]

The 1981 contract date Kasco Metal Products magazine shows a 11/82 packing date, however, this example possibly a repack of an earlier magazine. I'll continue to search for a 1982 packed Checkmate Ind magazine.

*The 1983 contract date Checkmate Ind magazine shows a 9/83 packing date. That implies drainholes introduced between 9/83 and 1/84 though possibly a short transition period when either may have shipped.

If anyone has USGI contract magazines packed between 9/83 and 1/84 in original packaging I would appreciate knowing if they have drain holes on the front of the magazine just above the toe and the cage code stamped on the bottom.

Doran
3rd June 2009, 17:19
New photos added to post #88.

OD*
2nd July 2009, 11:29
Thanks, Doran.

Doran
2nd August 2009, 17:08
Additional information added to post #159 concerning dates of Checkmate contract magazines with drain holes.

Doran
23rd August 2009, 05:14
Pictures of a bottom marked MS Little magazine added to post #79.

Vettepartz
30th August 2009, 17:36
I looked at all of the pictures in this thread and didn't see one like this. Maybe it was mentioned and I missed it.

Is it 'Rock Island Armory' or 'Rock Island Arsenal' or 'Rock Island.....Fakery'?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/Mag01-3.jpg

Doran
31st August 2009, 06:06
Not uncommon but I've never determined the maker. The RIA Museum thought perhaps for the RIA GO pistols but I'm sure that's not correct. A friend gave me one he believed his brother brought back from his Korean service in the 50s or 60s but he wasn't absolutely sure. One observed with a boxed DCM pistol but potentially added later. Most seem in good to excellent condition which might indicate recent mfr. The spot welds follow the style of the 60s and 70s USGI contract magazines elsewhere in the sticky. Perhaps someone will provide an ID this time.

Vettepartz
31st August 2009, 22:22
Thanks for that info, Doran. I don't know what a GO pistol is; perhaps General Officer? Anyway, the finish on this magazine looks as if it were originally the standard shiny blue then somehow changed to make it look as if it were frosted or possible bead blasted. A few small spots appear to be the original blueing. This is really hard to show in a picture, but I tried with these two examples.

I have another magazine which I believe to be a 'transitional' one that was a commercial then changed to a military as needed by demand at the time. The bottom is the same frosted look with the top being the standard blue.

I hope my explanation here is not too confusing. Please ask if there is anything else I can explain or take pictures of.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/Mag01-4.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/Mag02-3.jpg

Doran
1st September 2009, 06:20
General Officer (GO) pistols were issue 45 autos converted at RIA to a Commander-like configuration.

All RIA magazines I've observed have matte finish. Yours looks like a typical example.

Doran
2nd October 2009, 06:10
Additional .22 calibre Ballester-Molina magazine photos added to post #110. I wish to thank OD* for his ongoing help adding additional photos and information to existing posts.

OD*
2nd October 2009, 17:43
It is we that owe you thanks Doran.

Vettepartz
6th October 2009, 15:28
After going through all 17 pages of this thread, I did not see any mention of the magazine that would be correct with the 1918 - 1919 Remington UMC. Another member of this forum mentioned that they made their own magazines, and it was just like the Colt's of that vintage but had a shorter toe on the baseplate. It would be interesting to see a picture of one, especially if it were next to a Colt mag for comparison purposes.

Doran
17th October 2009, 18:08
Remington-UMC magazine baseplate photo added to post #48.

Doran
16th November 2009, 05:28
Rock Island Arsenal built approximately one thousand M15 pistols for General Officers issued with three magazines numbered to the pistol. The magazines have polished baseplates with the remainder being sandblasted and blued. All are serial numbered to the pistol on the right side just above the baseplate applied with electro-pencil (arc). One magazine has L/C-L marked baseplate, one S marked on top of toe, and one with unmarked welded baseplate. Photos of this excellent example provided by owner, Johnny Peppers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/GO830.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/GO830magazineserials.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/GO830magazinemarks.jpg

PeterX
16th November 2009, 07:38
Perfect, absolutely perfect.
the magazine that I seek is the second from the left of your photo.
This magazine is absolutely identical to what I have.
How can I do to find it and let me send it to Rome?
Thanks to all.

Colt sub-contracted Stainless Steel magazines. From Left to Right:

Metalform sub-contracted - Officer's size (6 round)
Metalform sub-contracted - Government size (7 round)
Metalform magazines have beaded blasted floorplates and the bottom end of the body is "frosted".

Checkmate sub-contracted - Officer's size (6 round)
Checkmate sub-contracted - Government size (7 round)
Checkmate magazines have brushed floorplates without "frosted" bottom ends (body is all one finish)

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u239/M1911-A1/Magazines/ColtMagsSS01.jpg

Doran
13th December 2009, 07:55
I've asked National Match pistol collectors and former Match Pistol armorers about these magazine marks possibly added signify use in match pistols. They've stated the stamps looked authentic and used on the firearms but didn't know of their use on magazines. While no definite proof exists these are martially applied markings I believe them interesting enough to include in the sticky. Please post any information you may have or photos of similar marks.

Ordnance Wheel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineordnancewheelmarkmaybeCClaw.jpg
.
.
Ordnance Wheel with Air Force Premium Grade
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineAFPGAirForcePremiumGradepos.jpg
.
.
Final Acceptance Eagle, ink stamp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineMilitaryMatchMarksmanshipwp.jpg
.
.
Final Acceptance Eagle, steel stamp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Doran/magazine%20sticky/magazineFinalAcceptanceEagleQAstamp.jpg

Doran
30th December 2009, 05:14
Early one dot commercial magazine picture added to post #132.

Doran
31st December 2009, 16:54
Photos of original modern Colt packaging added to post #75. More wrapped WWII era magazine photos added to post #88.

Hardball315
2nd January 2010, 21:52
Hello all. I've scanned all 18 pages for anything that looks similar to the one I have. The most distinguishing feature is a rounded follower (similar to this one: http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/img/metalform_rnd_follower.jpg ) however it is not identical to that mag, it's just the closest image I could find on the internet. The only other mark on the magazine is the number seven on the lip of the baseplate, which I can only assume is a capacity marker since it's a seven-round mag.

I found this magazine at the pawn shop where I bought my RIA 1911A1. It was 10 bucks, a little beat up, but after I worked the small imperfections out of the metal it is the only magazine I have that consistently feeds JHPs without a problem. Now can you understand why I'd like to find out what it is? Haha.

I'll try to get pics soon, but my camera is on the fritz.

niemi24s
2nd January 2010, 22:20
The only other mark on the magazine is the number seven on the lip of the baseplate, which I can only assume is a capacity marker since it's a seven-round mag.If the number seven is stamped on the bottom of the base plate, it may be nothing more than the previous owner's magazine sequential numbering system. That's how I've marked mine.

If, however, it's stamped on the top it was probably stamped before the baseplate was installed at the factory. If so I've no idea what it might indicate.

Regards

Hardball315
2nd January 2010, 22:34
If the number seven is stamped on the bottom of the base plate, it may be nothing more than the previous owner's magazine sequential numbering system. That's how I've marked mine.

If, however, it's stamped on the top it was probably stamped before the baseplate was installed at the factory. If so I've no idea what it might indicate.

Regards

It is stamped on the top of the baseplate. It's not an L stamp as on the M.S. Little mags.

Doran
3rd January 2010, 06:34
I've seen several magazines stamped 7 on top of the toe. As you say, possibly indicates round capacity for some aftermarket mfr(s).

Several members have commented on the lenghty number of pages in this sticky. I only see four pages. I went to the UserCP in the upper left corner and selected Edit Options. In the Thread Display Options section and Number of Posts to Show Per Page I set the default to fifty. Makes it much faster for me to view only four pages but YMMV.

I don't think all who've contributed to this thread envisioned how long it would become or we might have gotten a little more organized in the beginning.:)

Doran
20th February 2010, 19:24
Bottom marked R C-R magazine photo added to post #79; only example I've seen of a so marked WWII Colt contract magazine.

Vettepartz
4th March 2010, 09:14
I haven't posted here in awhile, but I still think this is a great thread. I have these two magazines, both with pinned bases and the lanyard loop. From the pictures, you can see that they have different size lanyard loops. Are either one of them correct for the early Colt, and if so, which one?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/LLMag01.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/LLMag02.jpg

Doran
4th March 2010, 17:27
I've observed a few short looped magazines with three digit numbers stamped on the baseplate bottoms parallel to the long axis of the baseplate. The right magazine photo appears to show the baseplate toe thinned almost to a sharp edge as if the baseplate was ground flat again. I don't believe the loop looks large enough for a lanyard; perhaps broken off and replaced?

The left magazine loop looks the correct shape for a Colt magazine but possibly refinished or perhaps just looks that way in the photo.

Woob
18th March 2010, 01:28
I did a search on this with no luck and serched through this entire thread. I'm looking for information on how to tell a Sistema magazine from a Ballester magazine. Also, are they interchangeable? I thought I read that the mags were.

I ask because my Sistema did not come with an original mag. I recently picked up a mag that was advertised as an Argentinian 45 factory mag. It wasn't specified as to what factory. I bought it. I figured it's a 45 mag and you can't have too many of those (or any mag, for that matter).

My mag has the number 15213 on the bottom with what looks like an F in a circle ( I did see one similar to mine in this thread that was only identified as a Ballester-Molina mag). The problem is that it doesn't work in my Sistema. It won't lock into place. (I can post pictures if need be) I don't have any other 1911's to test it in.

Any ideas or knowledge that anyone can share will be greatly appreciated. I'd like to pick up numbered mags when I can. Who knows, maybe one day I'll get one that someone needs. Maybe even me. But I'd like to be able to be sure of what I have.

Thanks.

Doran
18th March 2010, 05:58
The font differs between the magazines and sometimes other stamps. Ballester magazines typically have block style letters and often a stamp on the end of the toe: stylized HA, F in oval, handshake, single letters and a few others I haven't identified. Sistema magazines typically have a script type font without other markings.

Any Argentine magazine numbered less than 24,000 is almost certainly Ballester. Some imported magazines may have lower numbers. Replacement magazines may have different style font than original issue. All original magazines I've observed have pinned baseplates and fully blue finish.
The magazines interchange but damage or wear, to either magazine or pistol, may affect function.

Woob
18th March 2010, 17:09
The font differs between the magazines and sometimes other stamps. Ballester magazines typically have block style letters and often a stamp on the end of the toe: stylized HA, F in oval, handshake, single letters and a few others I haven't identified. Sistema magazines typically have a script type font without other markings.

Any Argentine magazine numbered less than 24,000 is almost certainly Ballester. Some imported magazines may have lower numbers. Replacement magazines may have different style font than original issue. All original magazines I've observed have pinned baseplates and fully blue finish.
The magazines interchange but damage or wear, to either magazine or pistol, may affect function.

Thanks. I didn't think about the number being less than 24,000. Of course there is still the mystery of the "Missing Sistemas" numbered 10,001 - 24,000. ;)

Doran
18th March 2010, 17:54
I've never observed a Sistema serialized less than 24,000.

Woob
18th March 2010, 19:58
I've never observed a Sistema serialized less than 24,000.

We were discussing this in another thread. Check it out: http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=79413&page=5&pp=10

The question is: Do they exist or don't they? :confused: What happened from 1928-1944? Why did Colt stop at serial number 10,000 and then, supposedly, Argentina didn't make a "Sistema Model 1927" until 1945 and they started with serial number 24,001?

Bluemoon
25th March 2010, 02:28
I rediscovered this mag in a box of odds and ends. It is unopened and appears to be a 1960's contract mag. I haven't seen another exactly like it on this thread although it is similar to others in the "1960's Contract Mag Post" several pages back. Unfortunately the date stamp appears to be worn off. If anyone has one like it and can tell me what's in it I would appreciate it. Otherwise I guess I will open it.

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/Mag566_1.jpg (http://s387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/?action=view&current=Mag566_1.jpg)

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/Mag566_2.jpg (http://s387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/SlimChance/?action=view&current=Mag566_2.jpg)

Doran
25th March 2010, 05:56
I don't know if the nomenclature always included dates on the early wrappers. Do you see any remains of a date? I'm dating some of my unmarked ones by the VPI paper as I assume the paper was used shortly after mfr since it has a shelf life. All that vintage I've opened were unmarked.

80s and 90s wrapped magazines bring $10-15 at large shows. I recently paid $20 for a late 70s date I didn't have. Would you mind if we added your photo to the 60s contract post?

Bluemoon
25th March 2010, 22:25
Please feel free to post as you like.

Doran
29th March 2010, 05:49
Bluemoon's 1960s contract magazine photos added to post #87.

Hardball315
31st March 2010, 16:24
Okay, the pictures of the mag I need help identifying can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/hardball315guns/

Sorry for the problems with getting the pictures up.

Any ideas?

Doran
1st April 2010, 17:12
Posts #75 and #127 show similar magazines. Fine if it works for your application but many fail at the baseplate welds in short order.

Vettepartz
5th April 2010, 18:27
I just picked up a very nice late 1952 commercial Commander Lightweight. It looks like all parts are original, and it had this magazine in it which looks like it has the same amount of wear as the pistol. The stamping on the base is very light, and there is only one decimal-point/period which is right before the "4". Could this be the correct magazine, and if not, what is it for? Serial # is 29XXX-LW. Hope the picture is clear enough.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/1952Mag02.jpg

OD*
5th April 2010, 23:45
I just picked up a very nice late 1952 commercial Commander Lightweight. It looks like all parts are original, and it had this magazine in it which looks like it has the same amount of wear as the pistol. The stamping on the base is very light, and there is only one decimal-point/period which is right before the "4". Could this be the correct magazine, and if not, what is it for? Serial # is 29XXX-LW. Hope the picture is clear enough.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/1952Mag02.jpgDoes the magazine have a drain hole above the toe of the base plate.

Vettepartz
6th April 2010, 08:17
No drain hole. The bottom 1/4" or so is frosted, with the rest of the magazine being blued.

OD*
6th April 2010, 09:01
No drain hole. The bottom 1/4" or so is frosted, with the rest of the magazine being blued.According to Clawson, the frosted base began around serial C230000. They only magazine I seen frosted 1/4" up the mag tube body itself are Metalforms. Maybe Doran can add to this oddity.

Vettepartz
6th April 2010, 17:35
I tried to get a couple of more pictures to show the frosting, but my photo skills are not the best. I also am hoping Doran will jump in here.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/LWMag01.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/LWMag02.jpg

Doran
7th April 2010, 07:15
Like OD* says, Metalforms normally have sandblasting around the bottom quarter inch or so of the tube and may or may not have the M stamp. However, known Metalforms I've observed always have two dots or none and the nomenclature more deeply stamped than the magazine shown.

I've observed some known 1950s era magazines with slightly different font that appears "square", similar to the slide font of that era, but other 1950s magazines have had the rounder font like yours.

I guess all this means I don't have a definite answer to your question but I would say you have a genuine Colt magazine. I've not done significant modern magazine research but notice a much wider variation in finish, punctuation, font, etc than I'd originally considered. I've been thinking about a project to help determine more about postwar magazines up thru perhaps the 1970s but haven't come up with all the details as of yet.

OlsenG_360
13th April 2010, 19:37
Posts #75 and #127 show similar magazines. Fine if it works for your application but many fail at the baseplate welds in short order.

I picked up 3 of these mags recently from a member of another forum. The baseplate numbers are identical to the others posted. All were in the same packaging as already shown in this thread. One was so badly out of spec it wouldn't even fit in the magwell. The other 2 are working alright so far, actually they're working better than the ACT-MAG 8-rounder that came with the gun. After reading all this though, I believe I'll retire them to range-only duty and find some others for carry.

Doran
19th April 2010, 17:32
Additional Checkmate drainhole date information added to post #159.

Doran
10th May 2010, 05:39
New photo and information added to post #88.

Woob
12th May 2010, 22:16
This magazine was represented to me as being a Colt. Can anyone confirm or refute said claim? I can find no markings anywhere. Thanks for your help.

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/38401/2034716600047325324S600x600Q85.jpg
(http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2034716600047325324gjGOQj)http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/45875/2873718180047325324S600x600Q85.jpg
(http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2873718180047325324EObgXf)http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/46883/2769039000047325324S600x600Q85.jpg
(http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2769039000047325324TCyrjw)http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/47747/2282993310047325324S600x600Q85.jpg
(http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2282993310047325324avoSuE)http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/46393/2901806330047325324S600x600Q85.jpg
(http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2901806330047325324dlYPNO)http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/27507/2211839340047325324S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2211839340047325324AMHPjy)

Doran
13th May 2010, 05:37
I do not believe Colt produced your magazine.

dbarker
9th June 2010, 06:27
Hi all, looking to see if you have an idea of what mag I have. I figure it's probably a cheap knockoff aftermarket, but in the spirit of Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing! ;)

What I have came with the gun I just purchased. It's a USGI from 1913, with a end of production Remington Rand slide and target sights. There's a thread started on it looking for more info there as well. This mag has absolutely no markings, no sign of any markings ever being there etc. It's a pinned base for sure. The gun is reported to have round feed problems from time to time, and I suspect the mag to be the main culprit. I have yet to fire it so I don't know how bad the feed problem is yet. I intend to try the mag out and compare with a genuine colt mag i'll borrow from my dads 70 series.

Please excuse my poor pictures. Camera phone at 5am cause I couldnt sleep :(

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6633/20100609050138.jpg
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8210/20100609050343.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9396/20100609050213.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6243/20100609050227.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1948/20100609050235.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9468/20100609050433.jpg

Doran
9th June 2010, 17:21
Difficult to say, but the follower looks odd. Can you provide a "straight on" picture of the magazine catch slot?

dbarker
9th June 2010, 17:46
Difficult to say, but the follower looks odd. Can you provide a "straight on" picture of the magazine catch slot?

I thought the follower seemed a bit odd myself... the little bump on the lower fork is slightly deformed on top, but underneath it looks like a machine struck semi-circle.

I think this is what you were asking for, if not just say the word and I'll snap a couple more shots.

Thanks for the help :)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8896/20100609163841.jpg

Doran
10th June 2010, 06:02
I have some that style and thought this might be one also. The mag catch slot appears milled after assembly eliminating the square punch in the blanking die for the slot. Note the round end of the slot where the cutter stopped. Diemakers like to avoid square cornered holes/punches in blanking dies as they fail sooner than round holes/punches.

I believe these originate in Argentina and likely late production. Possibly a cost cutting measure or perhaps a different method to maintain the slot location so as to not rely on worn assy jigs. Perhaps another member has some insight on these magazines.

dbarker
10th June 2010, 14:21
A twist of fate with my gun, i tried out my dad's 2 spare 7 rounders he uses in his model 1991... one wouldnt even FIT in the mag well.. it friction locked about 1/3 of the way in. The other one, a silver stainless steel that looks new and says Colt 45 Auto (no rampant colt, no other marks (I suspect aftermaret knockoff) fits wonderfully, but does not seat fully in the gun. As such the slide lock fails to function, and the mag hangs out by about 1/8 of an inch...

I've ordered some checkmate mags (3 civ, 1 mil) got the deal for $30 total with shipping included. I can't drive to town and get 1 for that price around here. Hopefully they will function properly. I'll toss pics up when they arrive so you can verify my id of them.

I'll toss my possible Argentine mag into the backup pile. It seems of good quality and is in good shape really. I havn't tried feeding ammo with it yet.

EDIT://

Here are the only pics i currently have of the mags I ordered.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9253/checkmate2.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4370/checkmate1.jpg

Doran
11th June 2010, 18:02
I'm more familiar with vintage magazines but I believe both you posted are genuine.

Argentina magazines often have issues with feeding or losing rounds during operation. The tubes appear softer than USGI as the feed lips on well used magazines have normally worn to a knife edge. All springs seem to have have issues, including those in the pistols. I normally replace all springs and keep the originals in a ziplock bag with the pistol serial on a piece of paper inside the bag.

dbarker
11th June 2010, 19:27
The mag I have definitely feels of softer construction, its not well worn though. It's in pretty decent shape. Depressing the follower on the mag it feels soft, not enough tension.

When talking about the spring in the gun, I assume you're referring to the Argentine pistols? Or are you suggesting to get new replacement springs for the gun all around?

Hopefully the new mags I got will get here soon and I can id them properly to be sure. And hopefully they will function properly as well!

Thanks for all your help on this!

Doran
12th June 2010, 05:30
I'm referring to the DGFM-FMAP pistols. Sometimes recoil and firing pin springs have lost most of their strength. The firing pin springs especially seem prone to this and some are nearly fully compressed at rest. Always a good idea to chg both of these out for shooting, keeping the originals identified as I mentioned.

Doran
22nd June 2010, 05:27
Additional Checkmate drainhole information added to post #159.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=671360&postcount=159

Doran
7th July 2010, 11:12
Photo of various American Pin letter styles added to post #15.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=266034&postcount=15

Vettepartz
12th July 2010, 21:36
I have seen the pictures of the WWI Springfield mag, and would like to add this one showing the bronze/brass that they put on the lips. This one also has what appears to be a two tone follower, as if it were half heat treated. Is that normal for a follower?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/vettepartz/SA-Mag04.jpg

Doran
13th July 2010, 05:37
The copper braze area stopped the carbon impingement that promoted brittleness and cracking at the rear of the magazine. Springfield production featured two tone followers. I don't have proof but suspect these followers were tempered similar to the two tone magazines.

Doran
2nd August 2010, 05:32
Additional photos added to post #15.


http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=266034&postcount=15

Vettepartz
11th August 2010, 18:39
I have a "R" marked magazine that has the Roman style letter; that is with the serifs. Post #32 here shows a picture of it and mentions that it was made that way with the welded baseplate for a short while. When is that short while? This came from a very correct Commercial early Gold Cup National Match. It was made in the first year of production (1957) and with a low number, which is 544-NM. There are no other markings on the Magazine. Is there any way that this may have come originally with that pistol?

Doran
12th August 2010, 06:10
Welded baseplates appeared in mid-1943.

I base my timeline assumption on that I've observed very few WWII era welded roman (serifed) magazines and have never observed a pinned gothic (nonserifed) style. This indicates to me both font styles did not exist at the same time. I believe the roman carry over lasted only a short time in early welded production due to so few examples and these welded roman magazines date to mid-1943.

Some early post WWII commercial pistols shipped with refinished wartime magazines but 1957 seems too late for that scenario.

Doran
30th August 2010, 11:21
Aug1955 dated magazine wrapper added to post #84.


http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=391824&postcount=84

Doran
5th September 2010, 05:40
Killeen Machine and Tool magazine photo added to post #83.


http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=391818&postcount=83

strangms
10th September 2010, 13:18
Doran,

This magazine came with my 70 Series which is dated 1975. Is this magazine from that time period or earlier then the 70's?

strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04402.jpg

Doran
10th September 2010, 17:52
I would say period to the pistol but modern magazines are not my forte. A 1970s magazine may have a drainhole in the front.

An obvious weld seam down the back might indicate Metalform mfr. A friend purchased several magazines from an estate where the M marked and unmarked were exactly the same construction suggesting to me both styles were produced by Metalform. Letter codes may have not started until several vendors became involved.

strangms
10th September 2010, 18:11
Thanks for you help Doran,

The magazine does have a drain hole in front.
strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04405-1.jpghttp://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04403-1.jpg

kenhwind
10th September 2010, 21:44
This magazine appears to be correct for your pistol. I misplaced mine many years ago but had several in .38 Super. The rampant Colt TM and vender markings did not come into use until the late 70s or 80s. I believe they were made by Metalform

OD*
10th September 2010, 22:42
I'd agree, with the drain hole, it's no older than the 1970s.

strangms
11th September 2010, 10:17
Thanks guys for your help, I appreciate it. One of the best things about this forum is the knowledgeable people here.


strangms

spoonltz28
16th September 2010, 22:16
Are the WW2 era magazines worth anything?
I have two; one is the 'G' o the top of the toe and the other
is the 'L'. both are welded bottoms

Are these safe to use in a 70's era Colt GI ??

Doran
17th September 2010, 05:32
Value depends on condition. General Shaver magazines normally bring a premium over other WWII era production in the same condition.

Safe to use if in good mechanical shape.

Doran
7th November 2010, 14:16
Additional information concerning an unknown Argentina mark added to:

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=573288&postcount=123

Dale_R
14th November 2010, 15:01
This magazine is one of the few I have that works well in every 1911 I have. It's stainless, and it has what may be one of the earliest versions of "skirted" follower (I believe the magazine is 20+ years old). The only marking is a logo on the floor plate, which resembles a horse bedded down in the shape of a "C"; or maybe it's a seahorse.

ADVthanksANCE,
Dale
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/etc/magazine_logo.jpg

niemi24s
14th November 2010, 15:38
Hello Dale_R: :wc: to the Forum!

Thanks for the info, but your link to the image doesn't work (or I don't know the secret to make it work).

Regards

Doran
14th November 2010, 16:32
Interesting mark. Do you have a clearer photo?

Dale_R
14th November 2010, 18:23
Hello Dale_R: :wc: to the Forum!

Thanks for the info, but your link to the image doesn't work (or I don't know the secret to make it work).

Regards


Try again -- it took me three tries to get the link right. Is the reason I can't post directly because I'm just coming out of RO mode?

Dale_R
14th November 2010, 18:24
Interesting mark. Do you have a clearer photo?

That's a direct scan of the magazine. I couldn't get the mark to show up with any of the photos I took. Also I had to tweak the brightness on the scanner a lot to get even that image.

Dale

Doran
15th November 2010, 05:34
I've never seen that mark. I agree it looks like a bedded down horse; perhaps an attempt to combine C for Colt and the rampant colt into the same mark.

I'm certainly no photographer but someone here might possibly give some advise on taking a clear photo of a stainless magazine.

niemi24s
15th November 2010, 10:04
Prepare the base plate by coating it with soot from a candle flame and then wipe off all the soot - except for that down in the stamping - on a piece of slick (not fuzzy) cloth. Photograph it in subdued natural light (no flash, probably mandating the use of a tripod) and then tinker for the best image with Camedia, Faststone, etc.

And if that fails, well....try something else. Polarizing filters? :D Unfortunately, I've no stainless magazine or anything similar to experiment with.

Regards

Dale_R
18th November 2010, 11:39
Thanks, everyone, for the help so far. So here's another go at photos - taken outside with no flash. Got a little to close for the first one, but it's also the least likely to help with identification, I suspect.

magazine02a.jpg (http://members.cox.net/rogersda/etc/magazine02a.jpg)
magazine02b.jpg (http://members.cox.net/rogersda/etc/magazine02b.jpg)
magazine02c.jpg (http://members.cox.net/rogersda/etc/magazine02c.jpg)

Thanks,
Dale

Doran
18th November 2010, 18:17
Interesting, maybe someone will provide an ID with the clearer photo.

novaDAK
15th December 2010, 00:05
Doran,

This magazine came with my 70 Series which is dated 1975. Is this magazine from that time period or earlier then the 70's?

strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04402.jpg



Thanks for you help Doran,

The magazine does have a drain hole in front.
strangms

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04405-1.jpg

http://usera.ImageCave.com/strangms/DSC04403-1.jpg

Hi everyone, new to the site here. I've seen a mag that appears identical to the one strangms has, but it does not have the "." before or after. Like I said, everything else appears the same...finish, font/type, welds, etc.
Can anyone tell me about it? Is it a real Colt mag?

Thanks in advance.

Doran
15th December 2010, 05:11
I've observed modern Colt contract magazines with and without dots and sometimes with the mfr code letter and sometimes not.

novaDAK
15th December 2010, 12:06
I've observed modern Colt contract magazines with and without dots and sometimes with the mfr code letter and sometimes not.
Interesting. Thanks!

Doran
27th December 2010, 15:19
New photos of an unknown Argentina magazine mark added to post 131.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=603664&postcount=131

Doran
3rd January 2011, 05:25
New information concerning Checkmate drainhole dates added to post 159.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=671360&postcount=159

Doran
8th January 2011, 09:24
New photo of 1990s wrapped magazine added to post #90.

http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=442251&postcount=90

Doran
5th February 2011, 17:26
New information added about an unknown Argentina marking added to post #131.


http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=603664&postcount=131

Doran
28th February 2011, 05:18
New information about an unknown Navy Sistema mark added to post #116.


http://forum.m1911.org/showpost.php?p=559799&postcount=116

Oilypablo
13th March 2011, 16:13
I'm trying to ID two new "COLT" marked 10 round magazines that I bought at the WAC Gun Show yesterday. These have "G" and "S" stamped on the bottom. They look high quality - nothing about them is cheap, but I became suspicious when I see that Colt does not sell 10 rnd mags at their online store.

Any clues? Are they just knock-offs?

OD*
13th March 2011, 18:20
All the "G" stamped magazines I have seen are counterfeit, and I never known Colt to offer a 10 round magazine in all the years I've been buying them.