1911 problem with round going off when dropping slide

[denver]

Hello,

This is my first post.

My uncle just gave me his 1911 which he had accurized in the 1950's. He was a Sherrifs deputy and pistol expert and shot a lot. I have noticed that sometimes when I insert the mag into the gun and drop the slide, finger off trigger, a round will go off. This happened twice out of 160 rounds during an NRA training class. Sure got my attention. The instructor said it might be my sear? Any guidance or help would be appreciated.

I also have a more general question. I have another 1911 which was worked on by a gunsmith. Well, built by him would be a better way to say it. He told me to hold the trigger when dropping the slide. On this gun I have with no ill effects, but after the class, I really wonder if I received incorrect information! Was I just dreaming about this or is this a common thing?

Thanks for any input.

[thehead7]

Well, my first question would be: how light is your trigger?

I personally don't see any point in having a trigger at less than about 4 pounds...

Anyhow, it sounds like, perhaps, the trigger job on the 1911 in question might have taken a bit too much off of the sear, more than likely taken too much off of the releif angle of the sear or done the releif at an improper angle...

As far as holding the trigger down when you drop the slide, some people accept that as a normal thing, but I refuse to. Since ALL of my pistols are carry pistols (granted, my Kimber TLE/RLII does some respectable tack driving), I would refuse to even own a pistol that required such special treatment...

This next part should be verified by someone who knows what they are talking about, doesn't have pneumonia, and isn't pumped up on cough syrup:

Holding the trigger down while dropping the slide engages the disconnect to ensure that the sear will not disengage from the hammer due to the jarring action of the slide.

Any weapon that CAN go off from dropping the slide, IMHO is unsafe and should not even have a round loaded into it unless the muzzle is facing the berm at all times...

Anyhow, I would look at replacing, at a minimum, the sear of your pistol that is troubled, possibly, also, the hammer...

-Head

[wichaka]

Welcome to the forum denver!

The first gun; you've either got a bad firing pin spring, or as thehead7 mentioned the sear engagement on the hammer hooks is a bit feeble, the sear spring needs to be tensioned a bit.......it could be any or all, plus others I've not mentioned. Don't use it again until it gets checked out.

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET!
If you get in the habit of pulling the trigger when releasing the slide everytime, during a heated/speed reload your mind may get things tangled up and pull the trigger in the wrong sequence........thus sending a round.......who knows where.

I've got a 1911 that I did a trigger job on 12 years ago.........breaks nicely at 4 1/2lbs. I never hold the trigger when dropping the slide, the trigger is still holding at 4 1/2lbs. It won't hurt a thing if you don't hold the trigger back, just don't do it on an empty chamber. Only drop the slide when loading/reloading.

[denver]

Maybe it is the firing pin spring! The firing pin stop has fallen off twice in the last few weeks.

[thehead7]

Interesting... I never realized that the firing pin had enough mass to slam fire from dropping the slide... Makes sense though...

I suppose the most important question to ask is whether the hammer drops when the weapon fires, but that'd be kind of hard to notice.... And since I'm assuming the weapon has yet to go full auto, it probably would be the FP spring...

Thanks, Whichaka

-Head

[denver]

Yes, it has NOT gone full auto. Whew, THAT would not be fun. I can not tell if the hammer drops, of course, but I am goig to replace the firing pin spring and firing pin and retest at the range.

[stumbler]

Maybe it is the firing pin spring! The firing pin stop has fallen off twice in the last few weeks.

I would first clean the firing pin area (to remove debris from the spring and around the firing pin hole (Try a pipe cleaner))

There is a good reason that firing pin springs are kinda stiff.

Keep us up to date. Thanks.

[denver]

I will. I just received the new pin and spring today. I will try cleaning it first just for drill. Then put the new one in. Thanks again!

In case I did not mention, I 'stiffened' the existing spring a bit for the class which allowed me to shoot without the pin stop falling off. Which I was thankful for!

[John Lawson]

With the pistol magazine removed and the chamber dry, lock the slide back with the slide lock. Release the slide with the slide lock and see if the hammer falls. That will tell you if the sear is slipping out of the hammer notch. Load an empty case with a primer. Lock the slide back. Point it in a safe direction outdoors. Holding the hammer back so it won't fall by pinching it hard while holding down the grip safety, release the slide lock and see if the firing pin spring allows the firing pin to ignite the primer (or to dimple the parimer.)
But, don't load that pistol until it is checked out and safety tested, and don't skimp on parts replacement; you want a permanent fix, not a temporary one.
Personally, I'd take out everything and replace the worn and sub-standard parts with aftermarket or factory parts that suited me. This is a very cheap form of insurance, in the long run. An unexpected full auto burst from a pistol is a terrifying and usually unforgivable experience on a public range.

[denver]

More information:

I did the dry slide check above. Some interesting results. First of all the firing pin 'sticks' sometimes (when all else works, ie no hammer fall) and the firing pin stop falls out! I replaced the firing pin and spring and now it does not stick. I intend to clean it better but the new one does not have a problem. The old spring is shorter but even with the new spring the old firing pin sticks. I do not see a problem with it but the new one does not stick so there must be SOME reason. I will look at it more. So this problem might be solved.

I found a way to have the hammer fall EVERY TIME I drop the slide. Conversely, I found a way to NOT have the hammer fall. (At least I got bored around 20 or so times.) If I press the grip safety when dropping the slide the hammer drops every time if I push hard on the grip safety! If I make sure I do NOT press the grip safety when releasing the slide stop, I have not seen the hammer fall.

So, I am going back to trying to have the hammer fall when NOT touching the grip safety but thought I would post and see if this makes any sense to you all. Thanks for any input!

[John Lawson]

Examine your sear tip and hammer notch under at least a 10X magnifying glass. It is best to do this on the extension pins from Brownells, as they will indicate what happens in YOUR grip frame, not somebody's shop frame.
Some gunsmiths round out the sear tip or shape it wrong so that it can sometimes jar loose. Also, you don't want to go to extremes and have the sear cam the hammer back before release.
Buy a good sear from Brownells catalog that mates perfectly with your new hammer. Then install a new sear spring and properly tension the leaves. You may have to go to a four leaf spring if the trigger slams against the sear.
But, whatever you do, make it work correctly every time. The slide drop is extreme and if it holds through that, you are safe....unless some other problem is entering the picture.
Personally, I'd replace both the hammer and sear pins with premium ones and perhaps properly install a D'lask trigger; that way, you won't have any worries on the range or about carrying the pistol.

[John]

Having the hammer follow the slide is not good, but others will give you better advise on this.

What I want to say is that every 1911 shooter should have a small bag of pipe cleaners. These gizmos are great for cleaning up those difficult areas of the 1911, like the firing pin hole, the plunger tube, the extractor tunnel etc.

Thank God as an old pipe smoker I have plenty of them.

Rgds

[denver]

I took it in to a local gunsmith. I just got it back. He said he recut the hammer and sear. He said it looked like someone did a trigger job and they were rounded. I told him the trigger job was performed in the 1950's so it lasted a while. I did not test it when I picked it up. :( I tested it at home just now and it does the same thing! Bummer. He said he would take a look at it again. Sigh. I hope the second time will get it fixed! Thanks for all the replies.

[brickeyee]

Replace the parts. The hardened surface is likely gone by now and they will not hold a sharp edge for very long.

[denver]

The gunsmith and I talked and he told me that the gun will not do this when a round is loaded. Also told me that dropping the slide on an empty chamber is NOT a good idea. So, I went to the range and shot 200 rounds. Not a hint of a problem! I talked over with him about putting new parts in and his price was not too bad, so when I start to have problems, I will do that. Thanks for all the help!

[gottripletsNC]

I don't think I would wait until it acted up again before I changed the parts!
You don't know where and when its going to act up again, would be bad if it just happened to be at the most inopportune time.
And for no more than what the sear, disconnector, sear spring, and hammer will cost. 75$ is definitely nothing compared to....well you can just imagine.

[rmw]

The gunsmith and I talked and he told me that the gun will not do this when a round is loaded. Also told me that dropping the slide on an empty chamber is NOT a good idea. So, I went to the range and shot 200 rounds. Not a hint of a problem! I talked over with him about putting new parts in and his price was not too bad, so when I start to have problems, I will do that. Thanks for all the help!
You can drop the slide on an empty chamber , either you have very little sear engagement to the hammer or that engagement is negative , or to little spring tension on the sear or trigger or the disconnector is not fitted properly . The hammer should not drop when you close the slide . If you have the orig steel trigger in it . It may be helping cause the problem , when the slide goes forward the "heavy" trigger does not""because they reduced the spring tension" which hits the diss/sear and sets the gun off , thats why lighter triggers in the 1911 became such a big deal . It is hard to get a very light trigger pull on a 1911 with a heavy trigger "steel" . Hope I explaned this right when I am talking about the trigger being heavy I am talking about the actual part

[1911snob]

if it handloads check for high primers. Sometime if it not seated fully it will cause that.