Adding to the Collection

[Lazarus]

Partially due to John's excellent report on his visit to Colt and partially due to the great comments by others on this forum, I decided to add to Colt collection. So, recently I purchased 3 new production Series 70 pistols and an unused MK IV Government made in 1980. I am thrilled with all the pistols and I'm kicking myself for not doing this earlier. The external finishing is very good. Of the 3 current production models, 2 of the 3 are good to go. Only one blued Series 70 had to return to the factory.

That particular gun had a classic problem and I'm suprised that it passed through inspection at all. The barrel ramp was flush with the frame feed ramp. The link was in tension at linkdown. And to nobody's suprise the gun jams during feeding with stem bind. It is currently on its way back to Colt.

I don't see any other real solution than to replace the frame of this third pistol. Amazingly the other two, a stainless and a blued model are in good shape and pass the linkdown tests. They all came with 7 round hybrid mags. And, they all came with a special warning stating that in the opinion of the Masachusetts attorney general, the gun was unsafe at any speed.

So, I guess we'll see how the situation is resolved. If the barrel is not contacting the VIS in this pistol, a broken link and/or a ripped lower lug would likely result. Now, as far as the 1980 produced Mk IV, this is truly a work of art. Still, it was a bargain if you compare it to a new Kimber or Les Baer that tend to be inoperative until you fire at least 1000 rounds!

I'm not great at photos, but will try to add some after I get the 3rd model 70 back from Colt.

-Lazarus

[pa_guns]

Hi

Interesting experience with the third Colt. I have not seen anything like that on mine. Of course any product built by hand and inspected by people can have problems. Most inspection systems are only about 80 to 90% good per pass. The sad part is that a second pass only takes it to 90 to 95% most of the time.

Bob

[daveohno]

Looks like you started in a big way, several at once, very good. I hope the trip back to Colt fixes up the problem child of the family. :D

[Hunter]

Welcome to the fine world of Colts. I hate to hear you had trouble with one but Colt's customer service is excellent so I feel sure they will make it right.

[JustinTime]

Congrats on you all your additions.

[saltydog]

No disrespect intended to the original poster, but three NIB Colts and only one had to be returned to the factory?

Not exactly a great endorsement for Colt manufacturing, ethics, or quality control.

Yet the Colt apologists offer their congratulations.

Seems like Colt has been mashing the self-destruct button for some time now. Colt is capable of making good stuff, they just don't seem to care anymore.

salty.

[gbw]

I don't know if I rate as an apologist, but I am a Colt fan. Still, I hate to hear that they could and should be more careful, and I wish they would be.

Nonetheless - Jeez, Laz, you done GOOD! I think we should NOT have to wait for photos of the other 3!

And, you have too much money.

[saltydog]

Maybe I could have chosen my words a bit more carefully.

Sad to say, but,

it is what it is though.

Hundreds of thousands of these things were made by various vendors...and they worked. People put their lives on the line with them.

Now with CNC machines, Colt, and others, can't seem to make 'em as well as they did 70+ years ago.

To the best of my knowledge, the last sucessful semi-original idea that Colt had, was the Commanders.

After the gas tank runs dry, you can only coast so far.

I 'think' that I, and others, still buy them hoping that we'll get 'a good one'.

I'm about as bent out of shape as a two dollar lawn chair in a Jenny Craig convention with Colt.

Can't understand it...they have the talent, but not the motivation.

Colt..RIP.

salty.

[saltydog]

OOps, I forgot.

If anyone from Colt cares, other than pre 70 Commanders, my sidearm purchases over the last several years have been BHPs, Star Model BMs, Smiths, Pythons, Norks, one 92, a Sig, and a CZ.

If you guys at Colt hadn't been asleep at the wheel, most of those purchases would have had the prancing pony logo on 'em.

Somewhere the term 'false economy' oughta creep into the Colt corporate mind-set.


Slowly and carefully descending from his soap box,

salty.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I think I have bought or seen problem pistols from every "name" on your list.

Bob

[wetidlerjr]

OOps, I forgot.

If anyone from Colt cares, other than pre 70 Commanders, my sidearm purchases over the last several years have been BHPs, Star Model BMs, Smiths, Pythons, Norks, one 92, a Sig, and a CZ.

If you guys at Colt hadn't been asleep at the wheel, most of those purchases would have had the prancing pony logo on 'em.

Somewhere the term 'false economy' oughta creep into the Colt corporate mind-set.


Slowly and carefully descending from his soap box,

salty.

:rolleyes: Are you finally done ?

[paul45]

Here we go again..... :butthead:
Not exactly a great endorsement for Colt manufacturing, ethics, or quality control.And you come to this conclusion how ?? By one poster sending a Colt back for warranty work? Please....at least make sense when you post.
Yet the Colt apologists offer their congratulations.And you come to the conclusion that the above posters, wishing welcome and good will, are "Colt apologists"....how ?? Please....you're not making any sense again. It is like myself calling you a "Colt basher".....it's childish.
Seems like Colt has been mashing the self-destruct button for some time now.Please give details on your conclusion....overly simple statements such as yours don't make sense.
If anyone from Colt cares, other than pre 70 Commanders, my sidearm purchases over the last several years have been BHPs, Star Model BMs, Smiths, Pythons, Norks, one 92, a Sig, and a CZ.Anyone can search and find pages full of complaints, tales of warranty returns, and QC issues for each and every one of the manufacturers you list. Apparently, you think, incorrectly that they do not. Doesn't make sense again....
Slowly and carefully descending from his soap box,I beg to differ......

[daveohno]

I have bought in the past 9 months, 1 Bright Stainless Super 38, 4 Colt Gunsite Pistols, 1 WW1 Repro, 1 Colt Special Copmbat Government and a Bright Stainless 1911A1. The only pistols that needed any attention, were 2 Gunsite pistols with after market night sites installed. I sent both to Colt and they fixed 'em for FREE. The 1 Gunsite I bought from Gunsite Ranch, they installed the sites and Colt fixed them. The other I bought used and Colt fixed them for FREE also. They even paid for shipping on the one I bought new. All of my Colt's function as they should. Colt is doing a good job these days, as evidenced by the fact that their sales of 1911's are increasing again. That wouldn't happen if they weren't taking care of business. A Colt is not a cheap handgun and as such it should perform 100%, all of mine do. Nearly all of those that post here have the same expectations and experience with Colt as I do. I bought some used Python's that needed some work and they fixed (one free, one had a charge) them for free also. Not a bad deal, buy a 25 or 30 year old pistol and they fixed one for free (a very expensive repair at that) and another for about $90.00 Both are just fine and in time like they are supposed to be.

I don't own just Colt's, although they are my favorite. I have 3 Glocks, 2 S&W's, 2 Ruger's and a Sig Sauer.

[paul45]

Wow! I thought I had expensive tastes!! ......... thats the cream of the crop!

Very nice choices....did you ever find a 2.5 inch Diamondback yet?

I have bought in the past 9 months, 1 Bright Stainless Super 38, 4 Colt Gunsite Pistols, 1 WW1 Repro, 1 Colt Special Copmbat Government and a Bright Stainless 1911A1.

[jeff1124]

I've bought 10 colts in the last year, 3 new in box, 2 from the 70's the rest from the mid 80's on and I haven't detected any problems of any significance in any of them. If that signifies the demise of the company then I don't understand business at all. They hold their cost better then other makes, some older models fetch astronomically high prices. And, from all I read here, the demand for them far exceeds their availability. If that spells au revoir for the company then I don't understand french!!

[daveohno]

Wow! I thought I had expensive tastes!! ......... thats the cream of the crop!

Very nice choices....did you ever find a 2.5 inch Diamondback yet?
Yes I did! I'm surprised you remembered I was on the hunt for one! But it is in the black hole I call...my ffl. I will have 7 pistols over there, 2 of the 7 are in transit, I hope, to his house. My snubby Diamondback and my snubby Python are what are holding up my Christmas present. I can't wait to get my hands on the new Colt 1911! :D

[Hunter]

Seems like Colt has been mashing the self-destruct button for some time now. Colt is capable of making good stuff, they just don't seem to care anymore.

salty.
that is why their are out of business and bankrupt,right?
My thoughts are if one does not like Colt then one does not buy them. I do not like Kimbers so I do not buy them. No problem.
I like Colts old and new and some of my newer Colts are the finest pistols to be had.
There are folks who continue to spread rhetoric about Colt and it gets old in a hurry for me.
Yes it is a shame that a Government Model had to go back but like we have been through countless times before in mass production bad things happen. When they do and the company stands behind their mistake there really is nothing to complain about.
Example I am on an upstairs remodel right now and yesterday a walkboard fell in between the joists and went through the sheetrock along with my leg and made a nasty hole in the downstairs ceiling of a really nice house. I got my sheetrock man to come out and fix it.
Bad things happen all you can do it make it right and keep on getting it.

[swampthang]

Since August, I have purchased 8 1911s (4 nib), 2 pythons, 1 diamondback and 2 ARs. I had one extractor issue on a 20 yr old pistol, it took all of five minutes to fix. The company is DOOMED.

[OD*]

I get so sick of hearing this nonsense spewed on the errornet I could puke.


The next rumor filled post I read that has "Colt out of business", has "Colt going out of business", has "Colt on their last leg", states "Colt hasn't made a decent gun in years" ad nauseam , without DOCUMENTATION, is getting deleted, period.

[okcorral1881]

:D I have bought in the past 9 months,4 Colt Gunsite Pistols

And some people wonder why they just can't find one....:D ;)

[daveohno]

:D

And some people wonder why they just can't find one....:D ;)
But I only kept 3 for myself one of each.....I gave the extra blue one to one of my sons.. That's the only firearm that I have bought that I don't still own.

[John]

And, they all came with a special warning stating that in the opinion of the Masachusetts attorney general, the gun was unsafe at any speed.

So at what speed are you driving them???? :D :)

:lm:

Congrats at the new pistols, I am sure you will enjoy them.

[pa_guns]

I get so sick of hearing this nonsense spewed on the errornet I could puke.


The next rumor filled post I read that has "Colt out of business", has "Colt going out of business", has "Colt on their last leg", states "Colt hasn't made a decent gun in years" ad nauseam , without DOCUMENTATION, is getting deleted, period.

Hi

Good.

Bob

[Lazarus]

Thanks for the responses. The problem gun is at Colt as we speak, and I'm hoping for a good resolution. Good, would mean something besides sticking a longer link in the gun and sending it back with a "no problem found". I will say it is thanks to the other forum members for educating me on what is acceptable and what might be downright dangerous. In my opinion, stopping on the link is approaching dangerous and is certainly a valid complaint.

As far as buying a few Colts, it was a pleasure after I have paid outrageous sums to a custom 1911 "smith" to hand forge me several works of art. So called. These guns were later discovered to contain blatant errors in fitting, safety compromises. Hey, I just wanted to practice at the range! But, it has been fun building on my understanding of the 1911 platform...not what I started out intending to do.

On the positive side, this same series 70 had an excellent finish and of course came with 2 hybrid OK Coral magazines. I see that Colt is currently using their barrel notching on current production guns so it must cut down on feed problems. As I was saying to a friend, why would they compromise reliability to feed ball ammo, just to garner more folks from the wadcutter only crowd?

On related subjects: I used to be a faithful Sig man, but recently sold them all except for one stainless P220. No more aluminum frame guns, thanks. From reading the Sig Forum's Armorer section, I see now that Sig has bitten off more than they can chew. They no longer focus on a few well-made and reliable classic pistols. There are dozens of threads complaining about last round failure to feed, stem binding and all the classic problems we here are familiar with. The only difference is that nobody at Sig is up to speed on what's wrong... because these brand new guns are returned to the customer with "No fault found" messages, or at best, "polished feed ramp" or "adjusted extractor". None of their current production magazines has a dimpled follower. (BTW the original P220 magazines were 7 rounds, dimpled followers, tapered feed lips! But, they don't look modern and they have an ikky metal floor plate.) New design .45 cal mags are all 8 rounders for the full size guns, with a slick nylon follower. They are manufactured my ACT-MAG. My how history repeats itself!!

I'll see if I can get Candiru to photograph these pistols, since he is a regular Ansel Adams with a digital camera.


-Lazarus

[OD*]

As I was saying to a friend, why would they compromise reliability to feed ball ammo,
I have a number of late model Colt's with the dimpled barrel, it doesn't effect the feeding of ball ammo at all.

[gbw]

And they still have the best looking finish around, imo.

[Lazarus]

Sorry, I misworded my statement about reliability with ball ammo. I was being rhetorical. I meant that every 1911 manufacturer besides Colt has compromised the reliability of the originial design - by making the gun function a bit better with wadcutter ammo. Another rhetorical question is, what is so wonderful about wadcutter ammo anyway? Let's see, it makes a neat clean hole in the target. What did I forget?

-Lazarus

[larry starling]

[QUOTE]No disrespect intended to the original poster, but three NIB Colts and only one had to be returned to the factory?
I own several Colt's and no issues with any of mine....when I say several 42+.

Not exactly a great endorsement for Colt manufacturing, ethics, or quality control.
I guess the same could be said about any manufacturer. If you read any of the forums. People are quick to complain but not many are quick to put praise on there latest purchases....
Yet the Colt apologists offer their congratulations.
I guess I'm a Colt apologist.
Seems like Colt has been mashing the self-destruct button for some time now. Colt is capable of making good stuff, they just don't seem to care anymore.
If that's your opinion fine. But it's far from the truth.....

[pa_guns]

Hi

We just must be crazy to keep bringing these home

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/pa_guns/commander.jpg

No way about it. If we just had any sense we'd go buy something modern like a Glock ....

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n68/pa_guns/wash.jpg

Just don't have any sense at all..

Bob

[OD*]

They just copied off of Colt. :D

http://myweb.cableone.net/dSmith-45/Colt-ad.jpg

[larry starling]

[QUOTE]No way about it. If we just had any sense we'd go buy something modern like a Glock ....
How many warning points did you get for this statement? Hunter and OD might ban you if you don't watch it. FWIW I owned several Glocks years ago. Had a Model 23 and a 27. Guns just didn't fit me so like everything thing else I owned. If it didn't have a Pony it had to go..... ;)

[saltydog]

I agree Mr. Starling. Colt made quality equipment. In the past year, I've been fortunate to buy several. However, they were made prior to 1970.

I hope Colt does survive. I don't see it happening w/o long term investment, ethical manufacturing, less adversarial relations with labor/mgt, strict guality control, and a friendly political climate in Ct.

I see in my never failing crystal ball, Colt ownership going the same route as the Olin family did with Winchester.

Maybe the Colt folks can change directions. I hope so. If so, it'll have to be a co-operative effort.

I like 'em..want more of 'em..just not what is currently getting out on Colt's shipping dock.

salty.

[Lazarus]

I see no reason why this thread should be turned into a general wailing wall about how things just aren't the way they used to be. I have come to terms with the fact that the Colt I buy today is not going to compare to the priceless work of art I may have received 50 or 75 years ago. I suppose you could say that about lots of things.

On the other hand, having sampled a goodly number of other manufacturer's offerings, as well as commissioned several "hand-built" customs, I can say with complete confidence that most of the Colts still get the important stuff right. For example, not a single gun other than Colt ever arrived with what we know to be a workable magazine. Instead, these high-buck guns were modified and mirror polished to death in order to feed "most of the time". Maybe.

I'm not the type to celebrate when I get the opportunity to send something back to the factory. However, I also find it a waste of time to lose sleep over it. I'm thankful that a number of forum members are willing to instruct us on the fundamentals that have now been forgotten by every major 1911 manufacturer in this country. Except Colt, that is. Now, Colt may not hit a home run with every pistol, but the basics are still there.

I just got "finished" with a project that uses Vermont made slide and frame. Anyone else think that these parts claim to be the cream of the crop? They are a joke. Since I don't own a vertical mill, the project is off to EGW to lower the frame bed, re-cut the feed ramp and so on. Things that can't easily be done with files and sandpaper, not to mention a Dremel. George knows his stuff. Chalk up at least one smith who knows how it is supposed to work. I'm selling the high-buck artwork with the Wilson magazines and sticking with a Colt product that, while a bit rougher in appearance and finish, has proven to work reliably. Oh, and for the record, I hate wadcutter ammo.

-Lazarus

[paul45]

I like 'em..want more of 'em..just not what is currently getting out on Colt's shipping dock.Fair enough........but you have my sympathy for being very, sadly, mis-informed.

[OD*]

I see in my never failing crystal ball, Colt ownership going the same route as the Olin family did with Winchester.
That's quite the crystal ball you have there, it sees the past?

Mrs. Colt sold the company to a group of investors based in New York and New England in 1901.
Franklin W. Olin's conglomerate purchased Winchester Repeating Arms Co., in 1931.

[larry starling]

[QUOTE]Maybe the Colt folks can change directions. I hope so.
Colt has changed directions and have turned the company around. What universe do you live in? Many people are uninformed and spread rumors on the errornet about Colt's demise. I think it is wishful thinking on their parts...... ;)

[OD*]

Larry, heard you got ya a nice Ace!

[larry starling]

Larry, heard you got ya a nice Ace!
Oh yea.Thanks! Talking to bone head on the phone now.... :)

[OD*]

He called on his way home, tickled as a kid at Christmas.
At first I thought you or Paul had bought him a new dress, but he said his excitement came from finding a nice 3rd gen Dick Special. ;) I was tickled for him too.

[larry starling]

He called on his way home, tickled as a kid at Christmas.
At first I thought you or Paul had bought him a new dress, but he said his excitement came from finding a nice 3rd gen Dick Special. ;) I was tickled for him too.
Yea, After he got off the phone with us he called Colt. They told him gun was 1st year of production with barrel shroud. I think he said 1971 or so. He done real well we all did..... ;)

[saltydog]

It wasn't my intention to skew the direction of the thread. For that I apologise.

You have your experiences with the Series 80 Colts, I have mine.

A group hug over only one in three needing to returned to Colt kinda got my attention.

When Olin bought Colt wasn't the issue. Its what they did with it, and, maybe, why.

I like 'em. Having said that, I'll never buy any more Series 80s.

salty.

[larry starling]

[QUOTE]You have your experiences with the Series 80 Colts, I have mine.
yep, couldn't agree more with ya. Nothing but great experiences so far for me...

I like 'em. Having said that, I'll never buy any more Series 80s.
I think your making a mistake. But oh well it's your opinion. and no need to apologize for the discussion that's what the forum is for right? But in the future you might want to better research your fact's.... ;)

[OD*]

When Olin bought Colt wasn't the issue.
Olin didn't buy Colt. :confused:

Its what they did with it, and, maybe, why.
They didn't do anything thing with it.

[okcorral1881]

Olin didn't buy Colt.


OD* you always beat me by 2 minutes...must be getting old;) :)

[pa_guns]

Hi

I started buying Colts back in the 1970's. I can say from direct personal experience that the new Colts they make today are better than the ones they made "back in the old days".

Before the 70's was before my time, don't know about that from personal experience.

As far as I can see they have a far more realistic business plan today than they did back then.

Sounds like two for two to me.


Bob

[OD*]

must be getting old
That makes two of us! ;)

[daveohno]

He called on his way home, tickled as a kid at Christmas.
At first I thought you or Paul had bought him a new dress, but he said his excitement came from finding a nice 3rd gen Dick Special. ;) I was tickled for him too.
OD is a meany! :scared:

[OD*]

Hey! I resemble that remark. ;)

[Lazarus]

Salty, I purchased 3 series 70 pistols and throw in one 30 year old MK IV series 70. I don't own and would never purchase a series 80 Colt, or another manufacturer's version of same. I would rather make myself a sharp stick than to use a series 80.

The last 1991, which yes, is a series 80 for some screwey reason, that I worked on for a friend was what kept me away from Colt for a long time. It was horrific! The 3 pistols I just purchased were miles ahead of that 1991A-1.

Since the extra parts and fitting skill needed to install a working f.p. safety just don't accomplish anything, I suggest that Colt and all the other kinder and gentler manufacturers put it to rest once and for all. And that goes double for printing the owner's manual on the side of the barrel, for that matter!

I have a valid gripe on that one pistol, and I'm not backing down. Link in tension means the barrel stops on the link and has a severely limited lifespan before link breakage and/or barrel lug ripout. Since the barrel is already flush with the feed ramp, it is clear that the 'fix' is a new frame. Waiting to hear the official word on what can be done.

-Lazarus

[jeff1124]

I just don't understand what the big deal is with series 80 firing systems. 8 out of my 10 Colts have the extra parts but I haven't had one iota of trouble with any of them. Granted, I would take simplicity over the extra parts if I had a choice, but it isn't that hard to take down for cleaning! Sounds like your right to have a gripe about the barrel link problem that you have but that has nothing to do with whether it's series 70 or 80! All of the major manufacturers have added parts in the name of "safety", not just Colt, jump over to the Springfield side and see how many ILS MSH's are being tossed.

[sff70]

Series 80 works well, but I prefer my guns w/o it. Here's 1 reason.

I recently had to adjust extraction tension on a series 80 gun while at the range. Pulled the firing pin stop, firing pin and spring as normal. When removing the extractor, the series 80 parts fell out of the slide and I couldn't find the spring in the gravel and grass.

Aaarrrrrgh!

I scavenged a spring from another ser 80 gun I had with me, and when I got home I replaced the spring (I have a bunch of 1911 spare parts).

[larry starling]

Series 80 works well, but I prefer my guns w/o it. Here's 1 reason.

I recently had to adjust extraction tension on a series 80 gun while at the range. Pulled the firing pin stop, firing pin and spring as normal. When removing the extractor, the series 80 parts fell out of the slide and I couldn't find the spring in the gravel and grass.

Aaarrrrrgh!

I scavenged a spring from another ser 80 gun I had with me, and when I got home I replaced the spring (I have a bunch of 1911 spare parts).
Sound's like you had a pretty bad experience. That's also a very good reason why I don't detail strip my guns when I'm at the range..... :(

[sff70]

I don't if I can avoid it!

Unavoidable in this case.

Nothing "wrong" with series 80 guns, but I avoid them when possible.

[pa_guns]

That's also a very good reason why I don't detail strip my guns when I'm at the range..... :(

Hi

I have been known to pop the extractor out that way at all kinds of odd moments. Sounds like a good thing to be careful of ....

Bob