Missed the deal of the century..

[Brian D.]

...Got to the local Friday swap meet just a little late, because I had to fix the gate at my gun club before leaving. They say 'no good deed goes unpunished', this experience may help convince me.

Older fellow showed up at the swap meet, which is held at a hunter's club. He had brought about 30 of his guns, and a circa 1990 Gun Digest to help him figure out values (!). So, I missed by five minutes getting two pre-Series 70 commercial Colt 1911s for....

...800 flippin' dollars! One was made in 1950, it was about 90% condition. The other was 1968 vintage, over 95% I'd say. No box for either, that was the only flaw in the slaw though! Oh well at least a friend of mine got these.

My "consolation prize" was a NIB Bulgarian Makarov w/extra goodies for under $200.

[larry starling]

Older fellow showed up at the swap meet, which is held at a hunter's club. He had brought about 30 of his guns, and a circa 1990 Gun Digest to help him figure out values (!). So, I missed by five minutes getting two pre-Series 70 commercial Colt 1911s for.800 flippin' dollars! One was made in 1950, it was about 90% condition. The other was 1968 vintage, over 95% I'd say. No box for either, that was the only flaw in the slaw though! Oh well at least a friend of mine got these.
Sounds to me like your braggin about a some poor old man getting ripped off....I for one would have showed him what his guns were really worth and tried to help him find a better deal. I don't take comfort in knowing I rip people off in my dealings.... :nono:

[paul45]

Based on your post....I get a gut feeling that this is not a "deal of the century" to be proud of. Getting 2000 dollars worth of Colts for 800 from an "older fellow" who might be, or is, uninformed doesn't go well with me. If I am getting the wrong idea from your post, perhaps you could give a little more detail.

[Lance White]

A good deal is one where both parties were satisfied. It sounds like the case in this deal. I very rarely come across this kind of deal, and usually am the one giving something away for less than it is worth (should I be sore for selling my FN FNC Para to my buddy for $1,750 three years ago?). People get too carried away with all of this - I love my guns more than the average gun owner but I also know that I can't carry a single one with me when I am gone. Maybe this older gent would rather an appreciating gun collector get them for $800 than his crackhead grandkids pawning them for $250. We are guardians of these fine instruments for only a short time, and if my kids (currently 11, 8, and 2 years old) don't appreciate them when I am getting older I will sell them to someone who does or pass them to another member of the family that does.

[larry starling]

[QUOTE]A good deal is one where both parties were satisfied.It sounds like the case in this deal.
I disagree in his post he is gloating about his friend taking advantage of a older gentleman. People get too carried away with all of this
Being honest is getting carried away?- Maybe this older gent would rather an appreciating gun collector get them for $800 than his crackhead grand kids pawning them for $250.
On the other hand maybe the guy is flat broke and needed money in a bad way. And instead of his grandchildren getting them, He sold them so he could eat... :nono:

[paul45]

A good deal is one where both parties were satisfied.ONLY if both parties are are informed of values. One person getting the deal of the century leaves the other sadly taken.

People get too carried away with all of this You think being "standup" and ethical is being "carried away"? I disagree.

Maybe this older gent would rather an appreciating gun collector get them for $800 than his crackhead grandkids pawning them for $250.This is so assuming as to not make any sense....the original post inferred nothing about this.

The bottom line is....allowing an older gent to use a 17 year old buyers guide on finding an asking price is unethical and just plain WRONG. Helping an older gent find the avenue to sell his Colts for a fair, market value, price is just plain RIGHT. That is my opinion and that is how I try to conduct myself.

[swampthang]

You think being "standup" and ethical is being "carried away"? I disagree.



Have to agree with Paul and Larry, Unfortunately a "stand-up" guy is a dying breed , in my opinion of course! Seems like a lot of people just want to "get over". I see it every day !

[Lance White]

It was never stated in the first post that the purchaser set the prices - personally I would not have done what you guys are insinuating was done, either. We don't know what the case was, but if somebody OFFERS you something at 1/4 of the asking price do you guys turn them down? I seriously doubt it, you snarf it up and go about you merry way. If I give an appraisal of the worth of a piece, I don't offer to buy it unless the seller SPECIFICALLY tells me a price AFTER I tell them the fair market value (I don't lie either). I am a cheapo - I love getting good deals, but I can assure you that I would not have intentionally mislead the old man. However, if the guy came up to me and said "I would like $800 for these" then I wouldn't hesitate to purchase them.

[Mick_In_Texas]

...a Colt's USGI 1911 about a year ago at auction for $945. It's 100% authentic, if you count the Augusta Armory rework; and it's probably 95-98%. Beautiful.

The guy who sold it wanted the starting bid of $945. I bid it. Nobody offered another bid. I got her: First Lady, which I refer to often here. She's 100% functional, and in great shape. She is a collector's item as well. A piece of history, and a functional one at that.

I do NOT believe in taking advantage of sellers: I've been ripped off on my old Berettas, my Smith, my Nikon camera and accessories, by buyers in the late 80s. It hurts to this day, let me tell you. Those are just the major examples, I have more where I've been ripped off. I don't believe in buyers being ripped off, either. I've had a LOT more experience with that, than the seller part.

My seller on First Lady was happy; I was sure happy. He offered her for auction. I was the high bidder. I didn't expect to be, but, I was.

That said: the elderly gentleman at the gun show... I'd have to know more about his situation to make my own judgment. I know many times in my life, I've offered more for a thing than the seller wanted, and the seller said what he or she wanted was fine. Once I've made my offer, and it has been rejected, then my conscience is clear. Same in business: I've offered state money to vendors, to be fair, and they've stuck with their deals; the offer was made, I'll take the deal as a buyer. I made the offer for a higher sell price.

The elderly gentleman, though, we'd have to know more about his situation. I sold my Mil-Spec Springer to the local dealer; I paid about $550 for it, got $350, and it'd never been fired, it was NIB. So much for the value of guns increasing, all I can say: was I happy? NO. But I needed the money last year. On the collector's items markets, it's caveat emptore... I don't think I ripped off First Lady's seller, he set the minimum bid, no reserve; I've been ripped off too many times to count; but, we don't know the elderly gentleman's situation in this case. Maybe he shoulda got more than he did. My dad's 87, and he needs all he can get; but, from the info here, we really don't know the situation. If a buyer offered him more, and he refused it, that does have some influence here. I don't want to assume his kids or grandkids are crackheads; they may be. If so, YES: someone who APPRECIATES the value of these fine Colt's got them. The elderly gentleman may have been happy at that.

I'm all for helping the elderly: many of them, like my dad, served in the military, were wounded, and didn't get a whole lot back for their sacrifices. I fight to get my dad everything he can get, legitimately. But at a gun show, or at auction... what can we say?

Just my two cent's worth. I don't like ripoffs, and I like fairness in the market. But markets vary in fairness.

Mick

[Brian D.]

Okay, I'm back, with a little more detail. This gent had been to the swap meet a few times before, and had apparently expressed interest in getting a table at some point.

So, a couple of weeks pass, and this longtime member/gun owner shows up with his (also gun owning) son, a fifteen year old Gun Digest book, and about 30 of his firearms. Folks were showing a great deal of interest (naturally), and offers were being made, while he was setting up. He had earlier turned down $500 or $600 for just one of the Colt 1911s in question, then turned around a few minutes later and sold them both for $800, as I mentioned. He also sold two .22 Peacemakers for $400 or so. Some guns he never did put a price on.

Maybe the buyers were a little anxious to purchase, but as for the seller, this event "wasn't his first rodeo", as the expression goes. Would you take that many of your firearms to a gun show, dealer, or even a pawn shop, without having some clue as to their value?

Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest with this topic, by the way. Just reporting what I saw.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Okay, I'm back, with a little more detail. This gent had been to the swap meet a few times before, and had apparently expressed interest in getting a table at some point.

So, a couple of weeks pass, and this longtime member/gun owner shows up with his (also gun owning) son, a fifteen year old Gun Digest book, and about 30 of his firearms. Folks were showing a great deal of interest (naturally), and offers were being made, while he was setting up. He had earlier turned down $500 or $600 for just one of the Colt 1911s in question, then turned around a few minutes later and sold them both for $800, as I mentioned. He also sold two .22 Peacemakers for $400 or so. Some guns he never did put a price on.

Maybe the buyers were a little anxious to purchase, but as for the seller, this event "wasn't his first rodeo", as the expression goes. Would you take that many of your firearms to a gun show, dealer, or even a pawn shop, without having some clue as to their value?

Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest with this topic, by the way. Just reporting what I saw.

Wasn't a hornet's nest: just a discussion. From this, sounds like the gentleman is happy with what he gets, for what he offers. If so, then everybody's happy. I don't think HE feels he's getting ripped off.

Mick

[Lance White]

I don't know about the "hornets nest", but people were sure quick to flambe me - maybe a little guilty conscience on their part for things they did before they were the "virgins in white dresses" they are now. I haven't ever gotten over on anyone on a gun deal - I am fair all the way around. However I don't turn down a good deal when I get one either. If the elderly gentleman was obviously in some state of confusion or otherwise impaired from making good judgement, then I would have told him to take them to a good auction house and let them sell them for him. As stated, though, he was a "regular" at the swap meet and had some idea. Not everybody who has something to sell tries to get one over on buyers to the wall with prices 25% over reasonable highest retail.

[swampthang]

Lance, Sorry if it seemed like you were flamed, that was'nt my intent.

[paul45]

Lance... I took issue with some of your remarks....sorry, friend....having conflicting views is not flaming. I like a friendly arguement, do not insinuate you were being flamed.

I seriously doubt it, you snarf it up and go about you merry way.Nope, your assumption is wrong.

maybe a little guilty conscience on their part for things they did before they were the "virgins in white dresses" they are now. Nope, your assumption is wrong.....again. Perhaps you might do well to stop making so many assumptions.

Not everybody who has something to sell tries to screw buyers to the wall with prices 25% over reasonable highest retail.Has anyone even remotely suggested this? The phrase was "fair market price", thus this comment doesn't hold much water in this discussion.

Let me ask this.....have we heard anywhere in this discussion of anyone offering advice to the older gent (as in the original post) and suggesting assistance in selling the Colts in question for a fair value? Nope. Some obviously "snarf it up and go about your merry way", then brag about it on the internet. I maintain that is not a decent way to go about things in life. If some here feel they are flamed by my thought.....so be it.

Allow me to add an example here. Larry and I have a favorite gun shop....well one day there was an older man that came in with what turns out to be an fairly nice WWI Colt and some shotgun wanting to sell. The owner looked at the 2 pieces for a little bit and finally told the man he figured the Colt was worth 1200-1300 hundred. The owner then told the old guy he would give him 1000.....also telling him if he didn't like that offer he would take his number and tell his regulars about the Colt. The old guy was surprised saying the old Colt was laying around the house for 40 or more years and couldn't believe it was worth that much. In fact he said he thought he could get 300 or 400 hundred for it. Well, the old gent took the offer of 1000 bucks and was happy. Later I saw the piece sell for 1250. My point is this.....the store owner is a stand-up guy and is not interested in trying to prey on someones else's ignorance of that Colts true value. He went out of his way to tell the old duff exactly what it was possibly worth and what he would be able to pay for it and what he would try and sell it for. Then the deal was made....with both parties being informed and happy. One reason why I go to that shop frequently!

[JustinTime]

Lance... I took issue with some of your remarks....sorry, friend....having conflicting views is not flaming. I like a friendly arguement, do not insinuate you were being flamed.

Nope, your assumption is wrong.

Nope, your assumption is wrong.....again. Perhaps you might do well to stop making so many assumptions.

Has anyone even remotely suggested this? The phrase was "fair market price", thus this comment doesn't hold much water in this discussion.

Let me ask this.....have we heard anywhere in this discussion of anyone offering advice to the older gent (as in the original post) and suggesting assistance in selling the Colts in question for a fair value? Nope. Some obviously "snarf it up and go about your merry way", then brag about it on the internet. I maintain that is not a decent way to go about things in life. If some here feel they are flamed by my thought.....so be it.

Allow me to add an example here. Larry and I have a favorite gun shop....well one day there was an older man that came in with what turns out to be an fairly nice WWI Colt and some shotgun wanting to sell. The owner looked at the 2 pieces for a little bit and finally told the man he figured the Colt was worth 1200-1300 hundred. The owner then told the old guy he would give him 1000.....also telling him if he didn't like that offer he would take his number and tell his regulars about the Colt. The old guy was surprised saying the old Colt was laying around the house for 40 or more years and couldn't believe it was worth that much. In fact he said he thought he could get 300 or 400 hundred for it. Well, the old gent took the offer of 1000 bucks and was happy. Later I saw the piece sell for 1250. My point is this.....the store owner is a stand-up guy and is not interested in trying to prey on someones else's ignorance of that Colts true value. He went out of his way to tell the old duff exactly what it was possibly worth and what he would be able to pay for it and what he would try and sell it for. Then the deal was made....with both parties being informed and happy. One reason why I go to that shop frequently!

I'd go there too Paul. Sounds like a nice place to do business with.

[daveohno]

I'm all for helping the elderly: many of them, like my dad, served in the military, were wounded, and didn't get a whole lot back for their sacrifices. I fight to get my dad everything he can get, legitimately.


Mick
If you look at it in a different way, you can see how rich your Father is, he has you and this wonderful country that all of us enjoy for his sacrifice. Not a bad deal. He did good!

[larry starling]

, [QUOTE]but people were sure quick to flame me.
I don't think anyone was flaming you just having a lively discussion.And FWIW this is a Discussion Forum. maybe a little guilty conscience on their part for things they did before they were the "virgins in white dresses" they are now.Nope integrity is not something that you wake up with one day and is gone the next. And yes I can say that in my dealings I haven't and don't take advantage of people either. ;)

[larry starling]

I'd go there too Paul. Sounds like a nice place to do business with.
Very nice place Glockinload. Paul and I will be taking Hunter with us on our next visit. ;)

[daveohno]

Very nice place Glockinload. Paul and I will be taking Hunter with us on our next visit. ;)
Will you please explain the error in Hunter's ways about the lack of Python's in his pistol collection? I am trying to splain to heem, but I think he needs someone in his neck of the woods to convince him.... :dead_hors

[larry starling]

Will you please explain the error in Hunter's ways about the lack of Python's in his pistol collection? I am trying to splain to heem, but I think he needs someone in his neck of the woods to convince him.... :dead_hors
Paul and I will try...But it is Hunter you know???? :D

[Mick_In_Texas]

If you look at it in a different way, you can see how rich your Father is, he has you and this wonderful country that all of us enjoy for his sacrifice. Not a bad deal. He did good!

Point out some things that clarify. First, yes, my dad and many like him, did good. He's surprisingly conservative, actually--but, he has gotten into some "wheeling and dealing" with his guns, that I didn't particularly like, hah, AFTER the fact--he has certain ones he'd never trade back and forth with, his beloved Ruger .22 multi-cylinder revolver, the RIA I gave him for Christmas in 2005, my stepgrandad's old LEO service revolver--but, he's had some beautiful guns he's traded for other things he wanted, or different guns. He had an SKS 6mm Chinese service rifle, that thing was built like a tank, dead on with iron sights out to 200 yds, ugly as a warthog but rugged as bedrock... I didn't like the caliber, but, by golly he traded it off for something, never gave me a shot at it! The ol' dog... LOL... He's traded of that Winchester .30-30 lever action, as well, and it was a beauty. He still has a little Markarov (sp) weird 9mm, that uses some kind of 9 that is made for Markarovs, that I don't like and can't imagine his fascination with, as ammo's so hard to get. But, he's not senile, and these are HIS choices. He sold his (and my late mother's) 112 acres of land off, several years ago, without mentioning it to me... THAT rankled: I would've helped him someway to get the back taxes paid... he was pretty bad off on it, though. We still have limited access to it, as he kept the mineral rights. But it is NOT the same. The owners are really good friends of ours. But it is NOT the same... I wanted to share that land with him. Ours. Was, Oh well. Still love him, and as bad as it hurts, still, it was his to decide how to handle, I reckon. Just wish on THAT one, he'd have told me how deep he was in debt on the back taxes, we might've found a way together. He didn't. Water under the bridge.

I like Larry's and some others's continued observations on the "deal of the century". Not knowing the elderly gentleman's prior knowledge at that original gun show, it's hard to say. I do like the dealer's offer above. Even then, the gentleman was happy with the $1000.00. It's really hard to say what one person's treasure (value) is compared to another's. I do NOT like seeing ANYONE at any age get ripped off. Having been in a position once where I had to take what I could get for some beautiful guns and a Nikon FM2--it was a buyer's market in my case, and I got ripped off (although the guns brought more than the camera did, all beautiful and top of the line and in good shape), and the sting still piques me occasionally. I've sold later some used stuff that I was exactingly honest about its condition, and tried to ensure the buyer/s understood, and got what I wanted for it, and the buyer/s were happy. Other times, I've refused to sell, as the potential buyers didn't want to pay what I wanted, and THAT time I wasn't hurting for money!

I'm like the dealer who told the guy I can give you a thousand, but it's worth 11-12 hundred. Your call. I'll help you spread the word. Then, you go from there, I reckon.

I just don't know enough about the gentleman at the gunshow's knowledge or comfort level or desire for what he'd get.

Y'all take care. This is a GOOD thread. Makes us all think, you know? And that is good. I think most of us here are some of the most honest folks you'll find on the planet. Solid. This place often gives me hope in an age that doesn't always, really. I'm thinking of a new WWI Repro, but I'm sure having to think about it. Can't decide if I want to put out what the one dealer I've found wants for it. They're not negotiating. It's my decision. One I've got to make tonight. We'll see.

Mick

[paul45]

Paul and I will try...But it is Hunter you know???? :DMaybe while Larry is trying.......I will do the buying! (OK, my feeble attempt at some humor.... :confused: )

[larry starling]

Maybe while Larry is trying.......I will do the buying! (OK, my feeble attempt at some humor.... :confused: )
Yea, Remember I know where you live and I'm bigger than you..... :lm:

[swampthang]

Very nice place Glockinload. Paul and I will be taking Hunter with us on our next visit. ;)

THE THREE OF YOU AT ONE TIME IN THE SAME STORE!!!!!!!!!
Those ponies aint got a chance, a massacre I say! :scared:

[larry starling]

THE THREE OF YOU AT ONE TIME IN THE SAME STORE!!!!!!!!!
Those ponies aint got a chance, a massacre I say! :scared:
Yea that's a fact......Hopefull Hunter ain't got no money when we go. :o