New .45 purchase advise

[SgtJCJ]

I have recently been asked to join a compition team. I have been shooting since I was old enough to hold a weapon. I have competed before in small arenas. But always with out of the box firearms. I was a revolver man up until about 8 years ago. I seemed to always hold my own even against the autos. I found I had to fire twice as fast to complete my first load at the same time they finshed theirs. But a friend got me into the .45. He carried a 1911, then a Sig, then finally a Glock. (we were cops at the time). I always carried a revolver on duty and boy did I take crap for that. My partner passed away about the time I started getting serious about autos. I was less than impressed with my first P97 Ruger and its grouping. I went to a used Springfield and it wasn't any better. I went in to buy a cheap concealed sized weapon and the Kimber Ultra ten II had just come out. I spent way too much money. But, the end result was, I never knew an auto could shoot so well. And I was getting groups out of that tiny thing way better than any other auto I had ever fired. So, I know now that an auto can fire as acurately as a revolver.
But now the question is, where do I start with my new venture in compition? I see the most 1911s can be upgraded throughout their life. But do these upgrades alway need smithing to do them? If so, doesn't this add to the cost a great deal? If it does, should I just buckle down and purchase what I want to start with?
I see in another thread someone (or many of you) said to start with a Sprinfield. These start at around $500. Start adding stuff over the next couple of years and you are up into the fully customized price range, right?
What kind of compition requirements are there? All of the ones I have been in require reloading. If this is the case should I even be looking at the extra cost of a custom double stack? Guidance would be good.
Thanks

[woozyduke]

What kinda shooting you gonna do is the 1st. question! Different guns for different shooting.

[gottripletsNC]

Do you wanna learn the inner workings of a 1911, do you like to do things yourself? Or would you rather let someone do the smithing for you?

several questions that you need to explore before that kind of decision can be made.

I got Springfield, and did all the work myself, didnt do a match barrel, but I PROMISE it will outshoot me, and I doubt I would like a race gun as much as I like my Springfield, after I did the customizing. Alot of stuff on high end guns is cosmetic at least to me anyways. (probably get some heat for that)

[Hawkmoon]

As others have commented, the first thing you need to do is define what type of competition you'll be doing, then select (or tailor) the gun based on that. Not only the type, but also which class within the type of competition.

As to double stack, you don't need to go custom to get double stack. Para Ordnance made their name selling double stack 1911s, and a couple of other manufacturers offer them as well.

[SgtJCJ]

Thanks all. Guess I'll do some thinkin and checkin before I can ask or have some of these answered.

JCJ

[Awful Patrick]

I.D.P.A. was designed for out of the box handguns. Whatever you're most comfortable with will work.

[Morrisey]

Even in an age of "match ready" I am finding that smithed guns tend to be the most accurate and reliable and, if you have done a good job of telling the smith what you want, they will not need to be tweaked after purchase.

Regardless of what sort of competition you are in:

1) Talk to shooters you respect and practice with. Ask them what they use and who built it. If you are at the range, nine times out of ten, they will let you try their gun. Be courteous and replace the ammo you use (most will say, "get outta here!" but you need to offer), and collect and give back their spent brass.
2) Note what you like and don't like about the gun. Note (or ask) the make of the frame and receiver. Ask about the brand name of the parts you like (sights, barrel, trigger, grips...). If you don't know, ask what sort of finish was used.
3) Keep a notebook and keep track of the answers. Patterns will begin to emerge in terms of both components and gunsmiths.
4) Do not be tempted to go to a smith not on your list simply because he is local, or to go to a smith who gets rave reviews for building guns that are not used in your sport. You also want a smith who competes in (or has competed at length in) your sport so he will know answers to questions you have not thought to ask yet. The trigger action for Bullseye and the trigger action for Action Pistol, for instance, are two entirely different animals.
5) Good smiths have l-o-n-g waiting lists, and may need to have your frame and receiver several months before they deliver your gun. Some people use an out-of-the-box gun while waiting for their smithed gun to be built; they can then sell their used out-of-the-box gun to the next guy who is waiting for his gun to be built. Folks with really good shooting friends can sometimes borrow a gun while waiting; if you do that, treat that gun like it belongs to the President of the United States.
6) Don't neglect used-gun opportunities. In some sports, such as Bullseye, guys will shoot hardball 1911s until they "leg out," and then will stop competing in that segment and sell that particular gun. These are often excellent values. Just be sure to bench-test before you buy.

Hope this helps.
Tom

[Gammon]

I agree with the others who suggested that you must define the use (competition) that your pistol will see. Once you have determined the mods this pistol will need, I strongly recommend that you try to locate your "dream gun" amongst the offerings of the top of the line MFRs. It is a lot cheaper to buy what you need from a MFR like Kimber or Para than to have these same mods performed by a gunsmith on your own pistol. There are a lot of "packages" on the market; one might suit you to a "T".

[Gammon]

PS I know. I bought a stock Para P-16 and then modified it for IPSC competition. A friend purchased the more expensive "Limited" model which had all of the mods that I painstakingly installed myself. The "Limited" model cost more up front, but was actually cheaper than doing the mods yourself!

[para1911sp]

It's great to see another shooter getting into the shooting sports. If you choose I.D.P.A., glock,kimber,para,and revolvers that can take moon clips are all very excellent choices.All are very reasonably priced and will work well. I.D.P.A. will restrict the round count to 8 for .45 acp or ten for glocks or similar weapons.There won't be alot of need for hi-caps unless the gun is intended for I.P.S.C. as well.If you choose I.P.S.C., para, s t i ,and kimber is always there.You will have classes for hi-caps, above 10 rounds, and classes for 10 rounds or less counting revolvers.My best advice is check with para's line of 1911's.They have single stacks,double stacks in 9mm, .40, and of course .45acp.They have a little bit of everything but will have a weapon that can be used in any style of competition, except revolvers.They vary in style, and can be available in either single or double action depending on preference.You'd be guarenteed to spend less than $900 to as little as less than $600 for one of the best brands of 1911's on the market today.Kimber is another good choice and so is wilson combat and springfield's also. I hope this helps.(this post was not intended to plug para's line of 1911's)

[KungFu954]

I completely agree with morrisey, good post!


One more thing though, no matter how good a gun is. It's only gonig to be as good as you are with it. That means if you find a great quality Kimber or Springfied but your just not comfortable with it, take it off your list. The gun should completely agree with you. I don't count grips with this since they are such a minor item. However, pay attention to the weight, how well it's set up for your individual needs, and so on.

Example, For me I like a really weighty gun since I generally shoot for accuracy but I really enjoy being able to get follow up shots off quick and precise. My Springfield is one of the heaviest I've seen. One of my good friends shoots best with a commander style which is a lot lighter and shorter. So, no matter what pay close attention to what feels best in your hand. I would (and have) done just what Morrisey said and make a list of features you like, and guns that fit best with you. Then do a little follow up research to make sure your picks are up to the quality you want.

Another thing to consider, is in todays day in age there is less of a need to fully build a 1911 unless you really enjoy doing so. Many people do. I used to be one. However, after spending 2 years putting together a Colt. I don't think I'll do it again anytime soon. Todays market place is packed full of wonderful custom 1911s that can useually be purchased for a lot less than it would take you to buy a basic 1911 and build it up. One thing is for sure, what ever way you decide to go, you will more than likely enjoy it. Good luck.

[Mygunpro]

A Kimber Target model would be great for Bullseye, IDPA, and even begining IPSC. You can buy a lesser gun then spend lots of money at a gunsmjith, byt my recommendations would be to buy the Kimber and spend all that gunsmithing money on ammo!
As for reloading, that depends. Can you afford to buy 3,000 to 4,000 rounds a month for the first 6 months, then 2,000 a month thereafter? If so, buy factgory ammo. If not, then buy a nice Dillon and go to town! LOL. And no, those numbers are not exaggerations, not if you want to be any good. Pros shoot about 15,000 a month.

Welcome to the sport. Be safe, have fun and remember, "blessed is he who, in times of adversity, concentrates on the front sight" (Jeff Cooper)

[Shanko]

I shoot primarily IDPA... My pistol of choice up until a couple weeks ago was a Kimber Team Match II, it worked well for about 2 years then i started having some problems with it (a bunch of FTF's and FTE's) I sent it to Kimber and they polished the feed ramp and changed out the extractor. It seems to be working well now, but unfortunately or fortunately I had to retire that pistol because I got a new one to take it's place.

[Hunter]

A good pistol to start off with that will need very little improving (if any) is the Colt Gold Cup Trophy or Gold Cup National Match. Excellent out the box 1911 that will hold it's own at the firing line.

[Gammon]

I shoot primarily IDPA... My pistol of choice up until a couple weeks ago was a Kimber Team Match II, it worked well for about 2 years then i started having some problems with it (a bunch of FTF's and FTE's) I sent it to Kimber and they polished the feed ramp and changed out the extractor. It seems to be working well now, but unfortunately or fortunately I had to retire that pistol because I got a new one to take it's place.
That pistol isn't retired, its sitting on the bench. If you shoot enough, and competitive shooting is a good reason to do so, you will most likely wear out your primary pistol. Its great to have one in reserve.

[grm]

Several of our members use stock Colt series 70 and 80 government models with no problems other than using Chip McCormick power mags instead of factory.Most have well over 2500 rounds with no problems when using winchester ball ammo.We shoot IDPA and 3 gun matches and sometimes mix a little long range handgun in for the hunters.

[Gammon]

Several of our members use stock Colt series 70 and 80 government models with no problems other than using Chip McCormick power mags instead of factory.Most have well over 2500 rounds with no problems when using winchester ball ammo.We shoot IDPA and 3 gun matches and sometimes mix a little long range handgun in for the hunters.

I'm talking about 30 to 40 thousand rounds. Triger jobs start to wear out, extractors too, and front sights (Series 70, not 80) can fall off.