Alloy frame questions

[mike56]

I have a new colt xse.
Thinking of having the front strap and trigger guard checkered, along with some other mod's.
I have been told that anytime the frame is touched, it needs to be re-anodized to maintain hardness.
What is anodizing? Is it a surface treatment only? If it is a "hardness
treatment", why does the factory polish it off the feedramp?

[paul45]

I have a new colt xse.
Thinking of having the front strap and trigger guard checkered, along with some other mod's.
I have been told that anytime the frame is touched, it needs to be re-anodized to maintain hardness.
What is anodizing? Is it a surface treatment only? If it is a "hardness
treatment", why does the factory polish it off the feedramp? Before I comment on your other questions......tell me specifically how you know and who told you ...the factory polish it off the feedramp
I am very interested in this.....thanks

[mike56]

I asked about a bobtail conversion, from someone recommended. He has a website. I'll pm you with the website.
Anyway, my inquiry about the conversion, got into a comparison with the colt and smith wesson scandium.
He told me that the bobtail on the colt would need to include re-anodizing the frame after cutting. The smith conversion does not, due to its' extra hardness.

[paul45]

Here is my confusion...you use the term anodizing, but Colt says the frame is teflon coated. On this link, see the same discussion where two very knowledgable guys say its a combo of nickel and teflon. I would suggest to end any incorrect assumptions, you should call Colt for the final answer.

[mike56]

Well, not sure how that helped..??

[Hawkmoon]

Mike, I am still not sure what your concern is. Anodizing is, indeed, a surface treatment for aluminum. There is such a thing as clear anodizing, but anodizing is more often used to apply a hard coloring to the surface of aluminum parts, such as commercial door and window frame members. (Not to be confused with residential window frames, which are usually painted.) It does make for a much harder surface than raw aluminum or alloy, but the thickness is also extremely thin for the hardened portion. It is not a coating, it alters the surface of the aluminum alloy.

So, IF an alloy 1911 frame is anodized, checkering would no doubt cut deeper than the thickness of the anodizing. However, although I do not pretend to know, I doubt very much that a pistol frame would be anodized, as I can't see that it would provide any benefit. And if it were anodized, I also can't see how cutting through the hard surface to checker it would in any way be detrimental. In other words, I don't think that re-anodizing would be needed. (Recognizing that I don't believe they are anodized anyway.)

However, you started out asking about checkering, then you mentioned bobtailing. A bobtail would certainly cut away a chunk of frame that has an anodized surface (again, IF the Colt frame is anodized, which I doubt), but I failt o see what harm that might do. The anodizing thickness is measured in microns. It would not weaken the frame in any way to not have that on the new exposed surface around the bobtail, and surface oxidation would easily be avoided by spraying it with clear Gun Kote.

I agree with the advice above -- call Colt and ask them. And try to be more specific about what your concern is.

This link might be of interest. If you want to learn more about what anodizing is, just fire up Google and search on "anodizing."

http://www.anodizing.org/what_is_anodizing.html

[paul45]

Sorry...here is the link.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=165932
I also am confused as to how you came to the conclusion that "the factory polishes it off the feedramp".

[feathers73]

Anodizing also provides corrosion protection. Obviously if the anodizing is removed and not replaced with the same or equal pretreatment then the part would be more susceptable to corrosion. It would be interesting for someone from Colt to comment on the surface treatments they use on their alloys for a newly built gun and a repair situation.

[Lazarus]

The anodizing is simply a process to produce a finish on the surface of the metal. This thin surface is marginally harder than the bare aluminum, meaning that it will be a little more scratch resistant than bare polished aluminum. As far as corrosion protection, I'm sure we have all seen corroded aluminum. It will corrode, especially in salt water environments; and I imagine that a neglected firearm would also begin to show the white scaly residue that aluminum develops if left completely unattended.

Cosmetically, if existing anodizing is removed, then re-anodizing would be required to restore the cosmetic appearance of the surface. The surface finish would have nothing to do with the strength of the underlying material.

Aluminum frame guns have the advantage of less weight and that is great for carry purposes. But whether the frame ramp is anodized or not will have little to do with the wear on the feed ramp. The biggest concern as I see it, is to avoid using the McCormick, or Devel type magazine because that follower will eat up an aluminum frame in no time.

-Lazarus

[Jim 1855]

Mike & all,

I build a product that is anodized and through the process of manufacturing my product have gained some knowledge of anodizing. So here goes.

First before you start modifying the frame in any way I would recommnend that you contact Colt to find out for sure what finish is on your gun. This is CYA.

Anodizing is available in a few varieties. The basic is what you see on MagLite flashlights (the same company that anodizes the MagLites does my product). THis is a fairly hard surface and makes the aluminum slippery and much more scratch resistant that raw aluminum. The second type is mush harder coating (hardcoat) and much thicker at a few thousandths rather than about 1/2 thousandth for the basic finish. Anodize impregnates the aluminum and builds on the surface usually about 1/2 in and 1/2 on the surface.

Anodize is one of the few surface treatments that will make aluminum slippery and to gall then two pieces slide against each other. Some of the new high-tech sprayed finishes may do the job but I have no really good knowledge of these processes.

Anodizing impregnates the material and changes the chemical structure of the surface so if you want to work on the gun you may need to strip the anodizing before the work. If you strip it you will never build it back to the original dimensions unless it was hardcoated and then it will take a very precise and controlled process to get everything back.

A way to think about anodize is it is similar to eggshell. Hard on the outside soft on the inside. Once you break through you are into the soft stuff.

Checkering is 20 to 40 thousandths deep, this is way deeper than any anodize. If you checker an anodized surface you will be into raw aluminum.

Here's my basic take on it. I like the lightweight guns and own two that are shoot occasionally and carry a lot. Once the frame has worn out replace it. Leave the frame alone but if you must change it get a really good smith to do the work. Ted Yost, Cylinder & Slide and people in this league. Get someone that will listen to what you want and will tell you what you need to know not what you want to hear.

FYI. For the product that I make if it is anodized and then stripped and reanodized it is JUNK. No way can it be repaired or fixed. It becomes test and evaluation parts that cannot and will not be sold as new.

Jim

[JustinTime]

The XSE is not anodized such as a Kimber is. The XSE is teflon coated. At least that is what the colt website says.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/XSE.asp

[Hawkmoon]

Anodizing also provides corrosion protection. Obviously if the anodizing is removed and not replaced with the same or equal pretreatment then the part would be more susceptable to corrosion. It would be interesting for someone from Colt to comment on the surface treatments they use on their alloys for a newly built gun and a repair situation.
This is why I suggested coating with clear Gun Kote after any checkering.

It would not weaken the frame in any way to not have that on the new exposed surface around the bobtail, and surface oxidation would easily be avoided by spraying it with clear Gun Kote.

[JustinTime]

Hawk is right about the gun kote. However I removed all the anodization from my kimber and did not do anything to it and the gun has yet to show any signs of oxidation or corrosion.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=24702

[mike56]

Appreciate the input, especially Jim1855.

Quite a quandry. I had intended to checker the front strap, install a higher beavertail, and look into EGW's steel frame insert. That work will certainly require frame refinishing. Maybe hard chrome?

Kinda wish I went with the Smith, where that scandium is forged in. Was told by a smith that the SW was noticebly harder than colt's frame.

[Jim 1855]

Mike 56,

If you have your heart set on changes call a good smith or three. Get their opinion and then make your desicion.

My skepticism comes from my product and the need to hold +/- .001" tolerances. Stripping the anodize removes about .002-.003 and only puts .0005 back. Big problem. Maybe the gun guys live with less concern for the loss of material.

If the gun as is has a "painted" coating then you may be just fine. I like "blue" so I pay little attention to the other finishes.

I only urge caution and an error, if any, on the safe side.

Jim

[dbracin]

Here's a picture of the feedramp on my new XSE and it appears to have been polished. The ramp is very shinny and the frame is matt silver.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/dbracin/lwtcom2.jpg

[Hawkmoon]

Here's a picture of the feedramp on my new XSE and it appears to have been polished. The ramp is very shinny and the frame is matt silver.
Your ramp could have been polished, but IF Colt uses anodizing, the fact of polishing doesn't mean it was polished after anodizing, and if it was polished after anodizing it doesn't mean it was polished deep enough to remove the anodizing.

[dbracin]

I have a new colt xse.

What is anodizing? why does the factory polish it off the feedramp?

I think Mike was refering to the shinny feed ramp, similar to mine. I was informed the polishing takes place before the final finish is applied. :)

[clughog]

Here's a picture of the feedramp on my new XSE and it appears to have been polished. The ramp is very shinny and the frame is matt silver.I'm sure it's standard Colt procedure, but my XSE Lightweight Commander in .38 Super came with a HIGHLY polished feed ramp as well...I've never had a new colt with the ramp polished like this, and the one on my NIB Defender, which is also an alloy/teflon coated frame, certainly wasn't. Just an observation.

[JustinTime]

I'm sure it's standard Colt procedure, but my XSE Lightweight Commander in .38 Super came with a HIGHLY polished feed ramp as well...I've never had a new colt with the ramp polished like this, and the one on my NIB Defender, which is also an alloy/teflon coated frame, certainly wasn't. Just an observation.

In turn, the feed ramp on my XSE lightweight commander in .45acp was not poslished. I did it myself.

[mike56]

Okay, came back from the smith and feel much better about my choice.(jojosgunworks.com)
Doing a drop-in beavertail, new trigger and action, mainspring housing, re-crown and fit match bushing. Keeping colt barrel.
After shooting it some, he will checker the front strap and trigger guard, then have the frame stripped, and teflon coated, same as stock.

His thought was the S&W was a good gun, but at the end of the day, the colt is still a colt and will be worth more in the future.

Now the wait.

[GDITheman]

This is from Ted Yost's website and he seems to do a lot of work with the old LW combat commanders and understands the aluminum frame.

"Prior to applying Black - T or any synthetic finish to an aluminum framed pistol, the frame must be anodized. Synthetic finishes do not add any surface hardness or strength to an alloy frame. "

[cameroni]

Very informative thread;thanks to all for furthering my education!
No more +1 McCormick magazines in my LW OACP. It is a series 80 alloy frame.
*Did I read correctly that I might be able to have this alloy frame hard-chromed?*
That sounds very good to me. Then it would be OK to use the feed ramp-chewing type magazines,yes?

I really thought the feed ramp on my alloy-framed Colt was made of non-alloy metal because it does look so very different(shiny) than the rest of the frame,wrong. Not a hard metal insert as I assumed.
I have carried this one for over 12 years. Only the worst wear/scratches show the shiny silver-colored alloy underneath the dark finish.
The weight difference between the lightweight OACP and a steel framed OACP are much more noticeable than I ever expected!
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