Colt Comander Model .45 .....born on date?

[DanT]

I just had the good fortune to acquire a Colt Commander Model (lwt) and would like to the know the date of mfg. The serial number is 101xx-LW. Frame will need to be re-finished but it is a solid gun. The roll mark, "Model", underneath Commander is faded a bit. Also, what type of Aluminum did Colt use on these earlier models?

I would also like opinions.......should I should use it as a base gun for a light custom (beaver tail, sights, safeties, etc) or keep it original and just have it refinished (anodized and re-blued) although I can't resist a trigger job.

It's definitely a classic and my first inclination is to keep it factory.

Thanks for your help.

Rgds,

DT

[lindermant]

http://proofhouse.com/colt/ccom.htm 1951

[Hersh]

Dan,

Welcome to the forum! Colt can give you a born on date if you don't get a respose here tonight. 1-800-962 COLT (2658) http://www.coltsmfg.com/.

Congrats on your find!

[wichaka]

Yep.......1951

[larry starling]

Congrats on your find. Here are some pictures of mine...
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/Project33.png
:D

[DanT]

WOW....1951. I thought maybe a late 60's early 70's gun. Definately a good find.

Larry, nice looking commander. It looks factory new. I am leaning towards keeping it factory after seeing how nice yours looks. Wish I had the original box and papers.

Also, does anyone know what alloy Colt was using back then? I am debating on whether to go Type II or III anodizing on the frame?

Thanks again for all the help and its good to be here.

Rgds,

DT

[paul45]

My mindset is always from the "wannabee collector" mentality.....so take my comments with a grain of salt. Before I would do anything to it....how bout some pics....even in honest used condition, a '51 LWT can be worth a pretty penny. I also am a "leave it stock" fool also.....

[larry starling]

My mindset is always from the "wannabee collector" mentality.....so take my comments with a grain of salt. Before I would do anything to it....how bout some pics....even in honest used condition, a '51 LWT can be worth a pretty penny. I also am a "leave it stock" fool also.....
Add me to the list of leave it alone crowd....Older Colt's seem to be increasing in value all the time.
Also, does anyone know what alloy Colt was using back then?
My sources say that the LW frames were made from a high tensile strength Aluminum base alloy know as "Coltalloy", the mainspring housing was also made from the same metal. The frame was finished in a anodized glossy black, with a matte finish on the other surfaces. And the rest of the pistol was finished in Colt blue. P.S that was the only finished offered by the way..... ;)

[agrijag]

Hi All.

I just joined this forum today, and I come with a question :) I have a couple of Commanders, One I was able to date to 1977 with the help of a link in this thread, and it's marked "Colt's Combat Commander". The other has me confused. It's marked "Colt's Commander Model" and the serial number is 70SC19XX (only 4 digits after the SC). Would that be the same as 70SC019XX in which case it was made in 1970? Both of these are satin nickel finish, is/was that a common finish for them?

-MikeS

[larry starling]

Both of these are satin nickel finish, is/was that a common finish for them?
The Combat Commander was available in satin nickel finish and according to the current blue book is some what scarce. ;)

[daveohno]

is some what scarce. ;)
Translation: Larry has only 3 of that model. :D

[swampthang]

Translation: Larry has only 3 of that model. :D

At least 3!!!:D

[larry starling]

At least 3!!!:D
My reputation is getting out...... :bf:

[swampthang]

My reputation is getting out...... :bf:

Ive heard therei s a few guys down south that are responsible for the so-called Colt shortage up north here!!:D

[agrijag]

Ok, now that we know where 5 of the satin finish models are, does anyone have an answer on the serial number question in my original post?

-Mike

[DanT]

Thanks for the all the input. One thing that is affecting my decision is the trip to the range today. Yesterday, after a detail strip, I put in a new Wilson recoil spring, shock buff, and x power firing pin spring. At the range I ran about 75rds of 230gr FMJ through the ol' dude and it definately had some pop.

The smallish grip safety made its mark on the meat of my web at around 45rds and you could feel the stinging on your trigger finger every round. Definately not a soft shooter. Reminded me of a Glock 20 10mm I use to have. Anyway, between the heavy trigger and factory sites (bumps more like it) I was minute of man at 15yds. Good but not great but it was fun to shoot a pistol of this vintage. It was 100% except for one FTF.

I want this gun to be a shooter so after taking a beating I am definately leaning towards a beavertail, trigger job, and new sights. As I mentioned earlier the frame has no finish left. Looks like a two tone. I have been debating on getting it re-anodized but after some research I am considering Tripp CobraCoat for the frame and a re-blue on the slide.

I saw a representative example of a Commander done by Don Williams Action Works and it looked pretty good.

Anyway I will try to get some pictures up. Stay tuned.

Rgds,

DT

[daveohno]

Ok, now that we know where 5 of the satin finish models are, does anyone have an answer on the serial number question in my original post?

-Mike
Try here, most older Colt's manufacture date can be found at Proofhouse.com

http://proofhouse.com/colt/index.html

[OD*]

Translation: Larry has only 3 of that model. :D
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/lmao.gif



Now we're goin' after poor ol' Larry?

You BHB!

[wichaka]

Might try a Wilson drop-in type beavertail grip safety. You don't have to modify the frame..........

Here's my Commander.........

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/rearsight.jpg

[daveohno]

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/lmao.gif



Now we're goin' after poor ol' Larry?

You BHB!

Nah, I just made an observation that if a Colt is scarce, that means Larry can only obtain 3 of it because there are so few of them to be had.

[agrijag]

Try here, most older Colt's manufacture date can be found at Proofhouse.com

http://proofhouse.com/colt/index.html

I've already looked there, and according to that website, all the Commanders that start with 70SC have 5 digits following it. Mine has only 4, so my question is when they (proofhouse.com) list a serial number as 70SC019XX is that really the same as 70SC19XX, or is my Commander an oddity?

-MikeS

[jeff1124]

Call Colt, they will tell you the vintage. I believe I saw the number in the thread towards the beginning. ( I know, I should have it memorized by now!)

[OD*]

I was just kiddin' ya Dave. ;)

[Phil]

As I mentioned earlier the frame has no finish left. Looks like a two tone. I have been debating on getting it re-anodized but after some research I am considering Tripp CobraCoat for the frame and a re-blue on the slide.The two tone appearance is due to the Coltalloy frame being anodized (black) and the steel slide being blued, making it look almost purple in comparison. If you decide to make this one a shooter, there are some threads elsewhere on the forum concerning problems using with steel follower magazines in the LW Commanders. Here's a rather poor picture of my CLW Commander produced in 1977.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/LW%20Commander/CLWCommanderMedium.jpg

[RickB]

I read someone's gripe, perhaps on this forum, that early Commanders had frames "made by Alcoa", and that when Colt started "making" them instead, the quality wasn't as good. Does that mean Alcoa set up a complete forging and machining operation for Colt, or does that mean someone misunderstood the meaning of the word "made"? Don't know. My early '80s Commander has a purplish hue to both the blued slide and the anodized frame; a much better job of matching the colors than on earlier Commanders that I've seen. The blued steel is a bit shinier, but the colors are the same.

[daveohno]

1-800-962-COLT and speak to customer service and they will tell you the manufacture date.

[Phil]

I read someone's gripe, perhaps on this forum, that early Commanders had frames "made by Alcoa", and that when Colt started "making" them instead, the quality wasn't as good. Does that mean Alcoa set up a complete forging and machining operation for Colt, or does that mean someone misunderstood the meaning of the word "made"?Only the metal was purchased from Alcoa by Colt. Here are snippets of various posts from other sources on the subject:

........the aluminum alloy used for the light weight commander was originally made by ALCOA (Aluminum Company of America) and is of the high tensile strength variety. I do not know what other metal additive is used...

.....the name "Coltalloy" is a holdover from the early days of aluminum gun frames in the early 1950's.....among the (trade) names Colt used were "Coltalloy" for standard aluminum alloy, and "Coltwood" for the plastic grips they used during WWII and up until the mid-50's on their pistols.......

......given that "Coltalloy" came out so soon after WWII, it is probable that it is a 6000 series aluminum, which Colt would have upgraded as the alloy series was improved. The last version of Coltalloy was probably 6061 which is one of the better machining forms of this alloy. Currently all 1911 manufacturers, with the possible exception of S&W, are using a 7000 series aluminum; and more than likely they are doing like Kimber and using 7075 aluminum as this is currently one of the strongest and most machinable aluminum alloys available........

And from Wikipedia:

The pistol that would eventually be named the Colt Commander was Colt's Manufacturing Company's candidate in a U.S. government post-World War II trial to find a lighter replacement for the M1911 that would be issued to officers. Requirements were issued in 1949 that the pistol had to be chambered for 9 mm Parabellum and could not exceed 7 inches in length or weigh more than 25 ounces.

Candidates included Browning Hi-Power variants by Canada's Inglis and Belgium's Fabrique Nationale, and Smith & Wesson's S&W Model 39.

Colt entered a modified version of their M1911 pistol that was chambered for 9 mm Parabellum, had an aluminum alloy frame, a short 4.25-inch barrel, and a 9-round magazine. In 1951 , Colt rushed their candidate into regular production. It was the first aluminum-framed large frame pistol in major production and the first Colt pistol to be originally chambered in 9 mm Parabellum.

In 1970, Colt introduced the all-steel Colt Combat Commander, with an optional model in Stainless Steel. To differentiate between the two models, the aluminum-framed model was re-named the Lightweight Commander.

Just as a footnote, at the conclusion of the 1949 competition, the Army Ordnance department decided to buy none of the candidates, but to retain the old, reliable M1911A1 in .45 ACP. :)

[DanT]

The two tone appearance is due to the Coltalloy frame being anodized (black) and the steel slide being blued, making it look almost purple in comparison. If you decide to make this one a shooter, there are some threads elsewhere on the forum concerning problems using with steel follower magazines in the LW Commanders. Here's a rather poor picture of my CLW Commander produced in 1977.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/Murexway/LW%20Commander/CLWCommanderMedium.jpg

Yep, looks just like that but no finish on the frame...bare aluminum at this point hence the need for Tripp CobraCoat.

[DanT]

Might try a Wilson drop-in type beavertail grip safety. You don't have to modify the frame..........

Here's my Commander.........

http://w3.gorge.net/scshields/rearsight.jpg

Thanks for the pic. That looks really good for a drop in. How about the sights? Looks like a McCormick drop in rear site?

Is the frame original or re-finished?

Thanks again.

DT