Could I get a little direction please?

[teal325]

Hi all -

1st really like this site.
2nd I have some questions but I would like to provide some background.

I am interrested in trying my hand at building a 1911 from the ground up. Prob in the next year or so. I am currently trying to accumulate some knowledge and tips/build spec sheet type of thing.

I know I am not gonna sit down at the kitchen table and crank out a Ed Brown Kobra Carry. I am not looking to. My goals with the pistol are to (in the end) have a nice pistol I can say I did the work on, and to learn my way through the process. I am willing to use the money spent in this endeavor as "tuition" for my own knowledge and as a starting point for a hobby/side business type of thing. (If things go ok!!) I ahve a background in mechanical work and such, i do the basic stuff on my rifles and i once built a muzzleloader from scratch so I do have some firearms knowledge and aptitude. I do not feel this project is way over my ability and I am committed to the project and I don't have any "Man I got to get this done so I can shoot" problem either.

My questions are as follows - aside from the internet, what are some good sources on pistolsmithing - particularly the 1911. Books, Videos, voodo dolls :) anything!

I really appreciate any and all info you can supply!

Andrew

[allynroe]

Andrew,

I was in the same position you are in a few months ago. It happened when my bother in-law paid big bucks for a Wilson and I wanted to build one that shot as good but cost less. Well the cost less part is long gone but hey I’m having a blast.

I have no gunsmithing experience but I have been around firearms my whole life, although I have never fired a 1911. I started by quickly doing some research on the internet and pricing some parts. It was suggested to me to purchase Jerry Kuhnhausen’s book called The U.S. M1911/M1911A1 Pistols A Shop Manual. This book was a good resource for seeing what parts are needed and how the pistol is assembled. It has been more useful as a start putting parts together.

I started by purchasing a slide and frame from Essex Arms. Gary from Essex is very helpful and I had him fit the slide to the frame; another suggestion that was made to me. After this it was time to purchase more parts. I found John Masens website that had probably the cheapest priced 1911 parts. Since I was doing it I wanted to do it right and have a pistol I was proud of so I started splurging. I ordered the Chip McCormick catalog and their parts looked reasonably priced and good quality. I ended up ordering pretty much every part they sold. All other parts I needed I ordered through Brownells; a great source for all 1911 parts. I’ve almost got all of my parts and the only regret is I wish I didn’t buy a cheap barrel off eBay. Fitting it has been no fun and I’m worried that it will not be as accurate as some others I’ve seen. Also, there have been some parts I’ve purchased that I think it would have been OK purchasing cheaper versions of them.

I enjoy building things and I wanted to look into building my own parts (definitely no cost savings there). Through Auction Arms I was able to find the whole (good quality) blueprints for the 1911. I’ve started reproducing the prints into AutoCAD and 3D Solidworks. Our aircraft company has a few vendors with CNC machines to help out. I’ve got titanium to try making my first firing pin.

I’ve attached a list that shows all of the parts I’ve purchased and what they cost. It also has the part number, manufacture, source, and cost. Items in red I still need to get but they are on the B-Day list for next week. Obviously I’m not an expert this is just my story. If anyone has opinions for me I would greatly appreciate the help.

Sources:

Essex Arms – www.essexarms.com

Chip McCormick – www.chipmccormickcorp.com

Brownells – www.brownells.com

John Masen – www.johnmasen.com

Best regards,
Allyn

http://www.express-aircraft.com/list.JPG

[Rabbi]

allynroe,

WONDERFUL post! I would have given anything to have had it two years ago when starting my build. I bought both of Jerry Kuhnhausens books which helped a lot.

I'll bet your list helps a lot of new builders with a place to start. Thank you.

Rabbi

[davidenorth]

Hey, thanks for great post and reply. I have too thought of building my own, or modifying a basic 45 to my specs.

[1911Tuner]

A few words of warning are in order...

John masen parts are cheap because they're investment cast, and not very high-quality. Many of them are hopelessly out of spec, and highly porous.
The mainspring housings seem to be okay...most of the time. The others
are a crapshoot. Just because a part will drop in and work, doesn't mean that it's working correctly. Functional and safety issues abound. Even
good quality parts in the trigger group can cause problems if they aren't
properly installed. An out of spec condition in the fire control group can
result in a sudden Full-Auto Expereince...and it won't necessarily happen
early in the game.

Essex Arms has come a long way since Gary took over the operation. The
slides and frames are investment castings, but they seem to be of fairly good quality. Porosity is sometimes present on the surfaces. The frames are out of spec in the radius above the tangs, and will require blending at the rear at the bottom of the slide. Often, there's also an issue with the dust covers making contact with the slides. Not a big issue, but one to be aware of. Hard contact at the rear of the slide travel will crack the frame at the dust cover/frame rail junction. make sure that there's .007-.010 inch of clearance between them when the slide is fully rearward.

The breechface guide rails on the underside of the slide are often too narrow for good feed reliability..and sometimes the breechface itself is out of spec.
Easy to correct with the right tools....but still a point of contention.

They still don't know how to stake a front sight, if you get a slide with the staked sight. The ejectors are junk. The roll-pin that holds the ejector is
also junk...and it's tightly pressed in and hard to remove without the right
punch.

Luck!

Tuner

[teal325]

Well I think I will get those books first- as I also wanted to get the Kinks series - would round out the order nicely.

I was thinking along the lines of either a caspian slide/frame or one of the les bears from Brownells. I think I will go with mostly Brown parts - people who use them on non full on Brown built pistols seem to like them. Thanks and keep the tips coming!!!

[davidenorth]

Great post have thought about doing the same.

[1911Tuner]

Caspian makes some VERY nice frames and slides. Note that their investment cast frames have held up well in hard use and competiton.

Ed Brown offers two different hardcore hammers. One is a casting, and the other is machined from barstock. McCormick parts are MIM. Though they
seem to be very good quality...they are still MIM.

Briley makes a very good, machined disconnect. I use nothing but for an
upgrade or a ground-up build/rebuild. I like Nowlin's top-grade sear. They
work well with Brown or stock Colt hammers...which are also steel.

OEM Colt hammer struts are blanked from steel and heat-treated. They are
wicked strong. Likewise for Colt hammer, sear, and mainspring housing pins.
Ditto for Colt's plunger assemblies.

Wilson Bulletproof slidestops are machined barstock. Brown's are cast.

If you're lucky enough to find a USGI thumb safety, latch onto it. If it can't
be made to fit, and isn't damaged...I'll buy it from you. Likewise for the
grip safety. None of the aftermarket grip safeties are machined steel any more.

Luck!

Tuner

[teal325]

Thanks - I am gonna go slow and steady I think, as this will probably be the best idea.

I do wish to stay away from MIM - I know some say its ok but I can not discount the problems others seem to have.

[allynroe]

Turner,

Thanks for the word of wisdom. I picked up on the John Masen issues early on and luckily before I purchased any of their parts. Since I had Gary fit my slide do I have to worry about many of your mentioned issues besides the ejector?

I’m taking notes of your suggestions for when I start my next build-up. You always learn from your first mistakes.

What is MIM?

I was looking at the original print for the grip safety to see about having some machined. One that is a tough part to do and two I like the look/feel of the modernized version I have.

Thanks again for the help,
Allyn

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Allyn,

MIM is Metal, Injection Molded. Powder metallurgy, and correctly done, it's
very good for some applications. The trick is doin' it right. It's a process rather than a specific grade of steel, and any metal that can be powdered can be used to make MIM parts.

The grip safety is probably the least critical of all the small parts, and the original specs called for 1018 cold-rolled steel...which is fairly soft, and generally non-hardening unless it's case hardened. A good casting or MIM grip safety will likely be adequate, assuming that it's well made. The only modern manufacturer that I know of that still machines grip safeties is Norinco. Most are investment castings...which Ruger has long since proven can be very good...and a few are MIM.

Gary likely fit the slide to frame in the rail contact area. Unless he's addrssed the radius above the tangs in the last year, you'll still need to
reshape and blend it...which most scratch-built pistols will require to some extent anyway. Compare it to a Colt or Springfield, and you'll see what I mean.

Also, the Essex frames have(or had) a blocky gripstrap at the front, like the older Springfields had. An issue for some...not for others. It never bothered me, and actually feels a little more solid in my hand than the original Colt contour.

I built a very nice Commander clone on an essex slide and frame set last year...actually one of a pair of twins that I got involved with when my ex-stepson approached me about building one for him. I suggested that he build it himself, so he watched while I built mine, and he built one while I watched and guided. He was meticilously careful, and his turned out nicer than mine.
Neither pistol has missed a beat, and are both more accurate than I can prove withoug a sandbag rest. Total cost per gun was in the neighborhood of 550 bucks, but I qualify for Brownells' gunsmith discount. Add about 15%
for a close estimate of the non-discounted parts price.

Go for it. You'll be glad you did.

"OOOH! Nice pistol! Where'd ya get it?"

"I built it" (Chest puffs out)

Luck!

Tuner

[1911WB]

Tuner- better watch those twins- they'll get you into serious trouble! :D WB

[Kerwin]

I really liked your post guys, very informative. thanks for sharing. Now i know what to watch for when buying parts. :)

Kerwin