Value of a pre-WWI "parts" gun

[bigwagon]

I have found this poor orphaned old Colt that is calling me to rescue it, but before I make a big mistake, I'd like to get some idea of what a gun in this general condition might be worth. Here are the basics:

1) Grey/green parkerized US Property-marked M1911 frame with original thumb safety and flat, unchecked mainspring housing, serial No. 108XXX (circa 1915) with a GHS inspectors mark. Trigger has been modified but functions nicely with a light, crisp break, but does not appear to be original. Hammer is also not original, but otherwise the frame appears to be in good condition with an excellent finish, and appears to have original double-diamond walnut grips.

2) Slide is an early Colt with serif-style lettering that has been reblued and well-worn since, as well as extensively butchered by the addition of an adjustable rear sight (dovetail and rear of slide were milled to install) and a National Match front sight. Even worse, somebody rounded the rear of the slide release notch such that the latch releases automatically when a magazine is inserted.

3) Bar-Sto barrel in dubious condition with a butchered bushing. Fits tight enough, but I haven't closely examined the timing or lock-up.

4) Aftermarket magazine with hideous accessory flared magazine-well extension pinned to the frame with the mainspring housing pin.

I could get the gun for around $550, which makes it just enticing enough to think I could unload the slide and barrel for a few bucks and make a decent project out of it. I was thinking of fitting a National Match slide and barrel to it to make a nice vintage-style shooter. I probably won't be able to get any photos since it's at a shop. Am I nuts to be considering this?

[Hawkmoon]

If you want a shooter, you should be able to find a Sistema that's more complete/original for about 2/3 of that price.

[bgiven]

Big,

If the frame is 1915.... the US Property lettering should be serifed to match up with the slide.... if so, IMO, keep the slide, grips and frame together, get some period correct WWI bits...and send it all to Bill Adair for a resto. Now you've got a vintage shooter, that most people will stop you and want to talk about, and you've preserved a little history..... ;)

Bob

[exitwounds]

THe 1915 frame may be worth more than the pistol itself provided it is not cracked, the slide basically has no value if it has been milled for the rear sight installation. If a shooter is what you want, for the money you could buy a nice Springfield repro.

[bigwagon]

I went ahead and bought it for $500 after stripping and examining it on two separate trips. There are no apparent cracks in the frame or slide, which appears to be the correct vintage even though it is cut up. I looked at a few new Springfields and a High Standard for around the same or less money and even several Sistemas at the local Gander Mountain, but in the end it came down to feeling better about putting the money into a vintage Colt. I may just get a new match barrel and bushing fitted and have the gun refinished as I like the adjustable target sight on it anyway.

I know I could have gotten something newer for less money that needs less attention, but I work for Harley-Davidson, so owning the "real deal" vs. a clone has special meaning for me. To me this is the equivalent of buying a Knucklehead chopper vs. a new Victory.:)

[bigwagon]

I picked the Colt up yesterday and test-fired a box of ammo at the shop's range. The target shown was shot at 20 feet off a sandbag with cheap Aquila hardball. Turns out it's a pretty tight gun with a good trigger and barrel, and it fed the Aguila OK with just two stove-pipe ejection problems. Overall, the worst thing about the gun is the front sight and the poor hot bluing on the sides of the slide. Otherwise, the rest of the finish is dark black parkerizing that's in quite nice shape. If I could have somebody match that on the slide and change the front sight and hammer, I'd be very happy. I actually prefer the Bo-Mar rear sight over the issue sight, but what's done is done anyway. For the price, this beats most new guns in that price range on the market in my mind.



http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/bigwagon/1911-2.jpg http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w273/bigwagon/1911-1.jpg

[exitwounds]

Nice looking for what it is. I would keep on eye on the areas prone to stress cracking and peening since that vintage of pistol is more brittle than todays pistols, and aviod shooting hot loads or +p ammo. The pistol would likely part out for more than what you paid for it. The price is fair for what you have.

[Ted Smith]

...owning the "real deal" vs. a clone has special meaning for me. To me this is the equivalent of buying a Knucklehead chopper vs. a new Victory.:)

Bravo! A man after my own heart.

There ain't nothin' like the real thing.

Good luck with your genuine Colt!

[Hawkmoon]

What type of hammer would you put into it? Both Brownells and sarco (as well as many other sources, I guess ... I happen to know about those two) offer wide spur hammers that would look correct on a pistol of that vintage. Since the slide isn't correct anyway, it isn't crucial that the hammer be genuine WW1 vintage GI parts. A reproduction would look more appropriate than what's on there now.

[bigwagon]

Just got off the phone with Brownells about an hour ago and ordered an EMC reproduction wide-spur hammer along with a few other odds and ends for this and my pre-70 Gold Cup. The EMC hammer appears to be similar if not identical to the repro hammer King's makes, but apparently Brownells no longer carries King's parts. I'm also going to swap out the grips to some newer repro's to save these originals, install new springs, and possibly change out the trigger. Also ordered an EGW firing pin stop that I'd like to try on one of my Colts after reading about it here on the forum. Sounds like a good upgrade.

[sonofsarge]

Please replace the slide...those sites are sore on the eyes. The old girl deseves it.

[bigwagon]

I'd like to, but original 1915 slides aren't exactly growing on trees. If it was a Springfield, that would be a different story.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Sounds like a fun project. That's about what I have seen similar pistols sell for around here. I'd keep a watch out for a WWI era slide at a reasonable price. I would not go nuts buying one for a fortune though.

Bob

[bigwagon]

I was at a gun show yesterday and found a short 1911-style grip safety and milled long trigger to replace the ones on it. With those plus the repro hammer, which appears to the the same part Colt and USFA are using on their repros, it is getting better by the day. On the way home, I stopped by RGS Restorations in Oshkosh to consult about refinishing it, and Paul at RGS said he has most of the roll stamps to turn a non-correct slide into an appropriate appearing one. I'm not sure how I feel about going to that length. I would prefer to source as many original parts as possible, but I agree that it's not worth spending a small fortune to create a gun that is still not "genuine." However, as nice as they are, I would still prefer to have this gun restored than to spend similar money on a Colt WWI repro, especially considering I would be having the same guy who does the bluing on those guns restore this one. On a side note, Paul said he just got 100 sets of parts for the WWI repros to blue, so they are still being built.

[pa_guns]

On a side note, Paul said he just got 100 sets of parts for the WWI repros to blue, so they are still being built.

Hi

My *guess* is that 100 represents about two month's production on the repo's.

He sure does a nice job on the finish.

Bob

[cameroni]

I like that Colt.
Wide-spur hammer ,yes!
Hope you post a pic when you can.
c