Inherited An M 1911, Should I Be Using It?

[wantahertzdonut]

I inherited a WWII issue M1911 a couple years ago, and recently I've been getting more interested in using it. From looking up the serial number here: http://www.sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm it was made in 1943 by the Ithica Gun Company and is stamped as such along with the "U.S. Property", with the serial number being 1452XXX. I'm hoping the holster is lying around somewhere, it was brown leather stamped "US" in a circle. My dad broke the strap when he took it out however, it was very dry rotted.

The action of the gun is pretty rough, and when my uncle saw it years ago said it was due to it not being broken in yet. It still has the brown storage wax around the hammer and some of the hinges on the back. I'll post pictures tomorrow, since I didn't think to take any last night. (no internet at home)

I'm one for preserving history when it's called for, so I'm wondering if I should be putting this up on display or if I should be carrying it in my holster at the range. I'm not looking to sell, but if the gun is worth something I will not be firing it and will buy a modern 1911 instead.

[OD*]

Pictures would be a great help. ;)

[wantahertzdonut]

Pictures would be a great help. ;)

I figured! I'll take some tonight. On that note, what should I be photographing? I can get pics of the entire gun, or are there internals that I should be getting shots of as well?

[OD*]

Pics of the entire gun would be good and of any and all markings and stamps.

[wantahertzdonut]

Cool. I'll get pics tonight and post them in the morning.

[exitwounds]

1452XXX is 1944 Ithaca production, not 1943 (1,441,431 to 1,471,430). That information is incorrect.

[Mick_In_Texas]

I inherited a WWII issue M1911 a couple years ago, and recently I've been getting more interested in using it. From looking up the serial number here: http://www.sightm1911.com/1911Production.htm it was made in 1943 by the Ithica Gun Company and is stamped as such along with the "U.S. Property", with the serial number being 1452XXX. I'm hoping the holster is lying around somewhere, it was brown leather stamped "US" in a circle. My dad broke the strap when he took it out however, it was very dry rotted.

The action of the gun is pretty rough, and when my uncle saw it years ago said it was due to it not being broken in yet. It still has the brown storage wax around the hammer and some of the hinges on the back. I'll post pictures tomorrow, since I didn't think to take any last night. (no internet at home)

I'm one for preserving history when it's called for, so I'm wondering if I should be putting this up on display or if I should be carrying it in my holster at the range. I'm not looking to sell, but if the gun is worth something I will not be firing it and will buy a modern 1911 instead.

OD* and exit are real knowledgeable. Far as your A1 USGI goes...

...I don't recommend shooting it regularly, and I don't recommend carrying it. I have a USGI 1911 (Colt's, mid- to late-1918 production run), and she (First Lady) is in excellent shape, especially for a veteran and being 89 years old. I have had her gunsmith cleaned and I have fired her. She's excellent, and I am extremely lucky (had to buy her, but lucky, lucky nonetheless). Recently here I expressed my feelings about carrying her, having gotten into a pant and drool over the Colt's WWI Repro that I can't get.

To a person, the good folks here recommended NOT! And, sir, they were ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I got over it. Your USGI 1911A1, like my 1911, is a collector's item; YOURS, has the additional and very important value of being a family heirloom!!! If she's in good shape, an OCCASIONAL firing followed by a thorough cleaning and lubing might be in order... but, I really would discourage you from putting this one in "service". If you want to shoot and carry a .45 as I do and do, get you a good, reliable modern one, and cherish your heirloom, sir. It is your call, but, really, I'd think better of it. I KNOW it's tempting: been there myself with First Lady.

And OD* and exit are right: we LOVE, LOVE pictures here!

Congratulations on this pistol, hertz. It sounds like a beauty, and a treasure.
Mick

[Phil]

OD* and exit are real knowledgeable. Far as your A1 USGI goes.....I don't recommend shooting it......To a person, the good folks here recommended NOT! And, sir, they were ABSOLUTELY CORRECT....Your USGI 1911A1, like my 1911, is a collector's item; YOURS, has the additional and very important value of being a family heirloom!!!....... but, I really would discourage you from putting this one in "service"...... It sounds like a beauty, and a treasure.
MickEvery time you you shoot it, you'll diminish it's value. But it's more than just the money......these pistols are getting more and more rare. If you have any appreciation for them at all, you'll recognize the importance of preserving them in the best condition possible......as-is. If you shoot it, it will become just another shooter.......and you'll end up regretting it later.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Let's get a look at the pistol. WWII's range from "un-issued" to "mix master". If this is actually an arsenal re-finish with mixed parts then that's a very different thing than it being truly an unfired specimen.

Bob

[Phil]

Hi

Let's get a look at the pistol. WWII's range from "un-issued" to "mix master". If this is actually an arsenal re-finish with mixed parts then that's a very different thing than it being truly an unfired specimen.

BobBob's absolutely right, of course. I should have prefaced my remarks to make it clear that I was referring to an original gun in good condition. :)

[OD*]

Welcome back Phil. :D

[wantahertzdonut]

OD* and exit are real knowledgeable. Far as your A1 USGI goes...

...I don't recommend shooting it regularly, and I don't recommend carrying it. I have a USGI 1911 (Colt's, mid- to late-1918 production run), and she (First Lady) is in excellent shape, especially for a veteran and being 89 years old. I have had her gunsmith cleaned and I have fired her. She's excellent, and I am extremely lucky (had to buy her, but lucky, lucky nonetheless). Recently here I expressed my feelings about carrying her, having gotten into a pant and drool over the Colt's WWI Repro that I can't get.

To a person, the good folks here recommended NOT! And, sir, they were ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I got over it. Your USGI 1911A1, like my 1911, is a collector's item; YOURS, has the additional and very important value of being a family heirloom!!! If she's in good shape, an OCCASIONAL firing followed by a thorough cleaning and lubing might be in order... but, I really would discourage you from putting this one in "service". If you want to shoot and carry a .45 as I do and do, get you a good, reliable modern one, and cherish your heirloom, sir. It is your call, but, really, I'd think better of it. I KNOW it's tempting: been there myself with First Lady.

And OD* and exit are right: we LOVE, LOVE pictures here!

Congratulations on this pistol, hertz. It sounds like a beauty, and a treasure.
Mick

This is about the answer I was hoping for. The gun hasn't had more than maybe 150 rounds put through it since I've come into posession of it, and works very nicely. It's a little rough due to not being fully broken in, but is still very accurate and reliable. I felt a little uneasy about firing it thinking I might be "ruining" it, and I have no problem picking up a modern 1911.

I keep forgetting to put the pictures on my flash card and bring them in to work! I ought to kick myself for that. But I have about 5-10 pretty good high-res pics with about as much detail of the markings as I could get to show up. I was hoping to have them Friday and, well it's Monday and still don't have them here. Tomorrow!

[Phil]

Welcome back Phil. :D Oh, I'm still alive and kicking........ :D :D :D

[Mick_In_Texas]

This is about the answer I was hoping for. The gun hasn't had more than maybe 150 rounds put through it since I've come into posession of it, and works very nicely. It's a little rough due to not being fully broken in, but is still very accurate and reliable. I felt a little uneasy about firing it thinking I might be "ruining" it, and I have no problem picking up a modern 1911.

I keep forgetting to put the pictures on my flash card and bring them in to work! I ought to kick myself for that. But I have about 5-10 pretty good high-res pics with about as much detail of the markings as I could get to show up. I was hoping to have them Friday and, well it's Monday and still don't have them here. Tomorrow!

donut, you are dead on here. As Phil said, when we've got a collector's item--which you and I and many others here do have--a LOT of shooting after you get hold of it can really decrease the value. I've only fired 8 rounds through First Lady; she's well broken in, smooth, as frighteningly efficient and reliable on those 8 as any of my modern pistols. Me, I'm WAY more worried about wear and damage to her, than anybody else's eval of her. That is my ONLY consideration, really... No telling how many rounds she ate in training, or on the battlefield, or after she came home to the U.S. Again, her value to me is NOT monetary, or in anybody else's eyes or pocketbook; while I am alive, she is mine and she is INvaluable. I will NOT fire her much, period, although she's just as functional, effective, and beautiful as any of my 5 "modern" 1911/A1s. She'll be held and examined frequently (I still can't get over the fact that I HAVE her), and at least every six months given a field strip and lubing. Carrying, truck or holster, NEVER. Shooting? Maybe once a year or two, 8-16 rounds, just to feel her power and performance. Maybe not that much.

Here's something one of the fine folks here sent me, to check stress area wear/cracking/potential failure on the parts on ANY 1911 platform, but especially our ol' collector's beauties:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/Mick_In_Texas/ebed636d.jpg

It was very graciously shared with me in re: First Lady, and I am happy to share it with you, sir. Maybe not interesting to you, but, if it is, there you go.

Y'all take care and be safe.
Mick

[Hawkmoon]

But I have about 5-10 pretty good high-res pics with about as much detail of the markings as I could get to show up.
Please note that photos for the forums are not supposed to exceed 800x600. If your photos are larger than that, they will be reduced to thumbnails anyway, so you're better off not trying to post them as photos, just post the links TO the photos.

[Mick_In_Texas]

Please note that photos for the forums are not supposed to exceed 800x600. If your photos are larger than that, they will be reduced to thumbnails anyway, so you're better off not trying to post them as photos, just post the links TO the photos.

Sir, it took me a while to get the process down. My Nikon "takes" HUGE pics, I'm talking megapixels (it's an 8.0 megapixel). Generally, I save them at about 15% off the flash card to my hard drive... although I do have some originals. I link to the 15-per-centers on PhotoBucket, here; John, our gracious host, got me into that and gave me guidance. My avatars, I download to PhotoBucket AS avatars, and they pass muster. Once you get the process down, it's real easy.

We WOULD love to see pics. Man, we're pic crazy here! I know I am... I LOVE to see what others are blessed with and what they've chosen. I love all mine, but, I also love ALL fine firearms, especially 1911s, Garands, Winchesters, Marlins, Henrys in the long guns.

Mick

[wantahertzdonut]

Ok I'm only 2 months away from originally posting this, but I have no internet access from home, and my work blocks me from getting to sites like photobucket. Today I finally remembered to bring my flash card with me to the library, so here they are, pics!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2283.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2284.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2289.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2291.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2292.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2298.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/wantahertzdonut/IMGP2299.jpg

There is no rust, the brown coloring is that wax stuff that they used for storage I guess. I took it out for some shooting, and it's nice and accurate. I love this gun! But I will put it aside if you all think that's better for it as I'd like to preserve something that deserves it.

[pa_guns]

Hi

At the very least I would give it a good cleaning and a light coat of oil.

Bob

[John]

Darn! Is this pistol half a century old, or did it just come of the production line!

Excellent pistol Sir. Congratulations.

Even though I can't argue the advise you had until now, I would tend to shoot it. Not regularly, but for me, there are no safe queens. Only working guns and a working gun is for shooting. Of course, this is a personal opinion only.

[HercPilot]

Oh my, that looks really nice!

HercPilot

[Spindly61]

What a beauty. Glad to see it has a good home.

[OD*]

Now that is sweet!

[daveohno]

That is a nice one!

[Hawkmoon]

Unfortunately, due to Greek law John can't afford to have safe queens. I firmly believe that those who can, should. IMHO the old martial Colts (and Ithacas, and Remington-Rands) are too special to risk them by general use.

Before deciding to shoot yours, please review this thread, and be sure to look at the photos. I assume that your Ithaca is all original. If you break the bottom lug, you can replace the barrel to make the pistol functional again, but it will never again be all original.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=28888

[John]

Yeap, Hawkmoon is right. My personal preference is dictated largely by our laws, I guess. I forgot to mention that in my earlier post.

[gbw]

Just another opinion, I'd just have to give it a tryout, maybe 50 rds. with reduced ball loads from a rest, just to see how it shoots. I'd date and keep the targets - put range, load info on them also. THEN I'd clean it well and put it up - it will become even more of an heirloom (and more valuable) over time.

[Hawkmoon]

Just another opinion, I'd just have to give it a tryout, maybe 50 rds. with reduced ball loads from a rest, just to see how it shoots. I'd date and keep the targets - put range, load info on them also. THEN I'd clean it well and put it up - it will become even more of an heirloom (and more valuable) over time.
There was a time when I felt the same way. Then I saw things such as the photo of that busted bottom lug. As some of you know, I live in Connecticut. About 20 years ago, a bridge on Interstate 95 in Connecticut fell into the river. Our wonderful governor at the time was quoted as saying to the media, "This bridge was safe until 3:47 this morning. Then it fell down."

An old 1911 is the same way. It's intact ... until it breaks. You have no way of knowing when you shoot it "just a few rounds" if it's going to break on the first round, the fiftieth round, or maybe the fifty-first is the magic number so if you stop at fifty you're still okay. The issue is, if it's a collectable piece or has sentimental value because it's in the same configuration and condition as when your grandfather carried in "the war" ... once you break it, even if it can be "fixed" by installing a new (or different) barrel, it will never again be all original, or all as it was when Granddad carried it.

Whether or not to take that risk is a personal decision. My decision would be to not take the risk. I have another 1911 I can shoot. For those who don't, you can find used shooters for $250 to $300 easily, and you can buy a new RIA for around $400. What price do you put on history?

That's my view, and it's worth just about what you paid for it.

[wantahertzdonut]

Well thanks for the input. I think I'm going to give it a good cleaning and put it away. For the time being I have some other guns to go to the range with, eventually I'll probably save up for a Kimber and use that as my primary shooter.

[JM likes loud mouth]

ITHACA- approx. 369,129 mfg. 1943-1945 in Ithaca,NY, ser. no. ranges 865,405-916,404, 1,208,674-1,279,673, 1,441,431-1,471,430, 1,743,847-1,890,503, 2,075,104-2,134,403, and 2,619,0014-2,693,613. Parkerized finish. 100%-N/A 98%- $1,400 95%-$1,050 90%-$825 80%-$725 70%-$650 60%-$550 Add 20% with original shipping carton. Can this be the Non Available price range? I would think so. What a gorgeous gun, That is definitly a safe queen in my book. Good for you! Johnny.

[OD*]

JM,

You really can't go by book price, you need to hit some of the collector shows and see for yourself what they are going for.

[JM likes loud mouth]

OD, I agree with what you are saying. I just really wanted to offer him some Info as to how many, and history of the Ithaca 1911s. To me this gun is priceless, and I apologize if I came across that way. For that was not my intentions at all. Like the Model 1910 was not a production model and it is considered to be the most desirable semi-auto Colt pistol. A nice specimen at a recent auction was gavelled down at aahur$195,000. To me, the model 10 is as priceless as the Mona Lisa. Again hopefully no Insults taken as to my text, Mr. WantahertzDonut. I am in awe of your gun. take care,stay well.