Incredibly Bad Customer Service

[fwarren94551]

Olympic makes 1911s and one model of interest in particular. They tend to assign weird names to their guns and their full-house custom 1911 is called the "Street Deuce." Oddly enough nobody ever hears about it.

I am mildly acquainted with Dave Workman of BOD, Holster and gunscribe note, and know he is a no-BS guy. He swears by the work of the gunsmith who builds these guns, one Richard Niemer, ex of Detonics.

I ordered a brace of these two weeks ago after a 5 minute conversation with Mr. Niemer, who seemed a staight up and no-BS guy. I placed and order with a local dealer who already had an FFL with one. That was about two weeks ago.

Today I called and spoke to Mr. Niemer about what was ON my order, since it had gone through several sets of hands and I wanted them set up in a particular way. He sighed and said that no order had been placed, and from the sigh I gather that this is not unusual for their sales people.

So I called my dealer, told him what I had learned, and asked for a delivery date on the pistols which, obviously, were coming a later than Mr. Niemer's original estimate.

He called me about 15 minutes later indicating that the customer service staff had dressed him down severely, yelled at him that I was not to call and inquire after my custom guns and so on. I called about half an hour later and apparently got the same nitwit on the sales desk.

He did not start out politely; he told me I should not be calling. I told him bluntly that I had ordered custom guns and would call whenever I pleased to check on them, and now that I had learned they weren't even submitting the order for work to begin that I wanted a delivery date. This is actually a trick to break the contract; if a firm date cannot be promised, the contract is null and void since "time is of the essence" in any business transaction. This guy was dumb enough to fall for it; he insisted that no delivery timeframe could be promised AT ALL, even the 12th of Never.

What would happen if one had an actual problem with a gun one had already paid for and needed service? He also refused to transfer me to his supervisor.

I still have no idea how good Niemer's guns are, or aren't. I never will. The order is being cancelled, and the shop I'm dealing with has already had a bellyful of Olympic Arms.

Forewarned is forearmed, people. I still hear that Niemer is greatly under-appreciated but if you want to be treated like runny dog feces on auntie's best carpet, well, they do have some people manning the phones at Oly Arms who are more than glad to give you all of it you can stand.

I like 1911s, but they are still best when done by a good gunsmith. The problem is I don't seem to be able to get any from Niemer.

I can't, and won't, say anything bad about their guns. The customer and dealer service I ran into is something else.

[stumbler]

Customer Service can make or break a business. Knowing how long it takes to produce a fine firearm can be nice or frustrating. Any one who has ordered a DW to their specs knows that a lot depends on what is currently on the table. Most of the "small" manufacturers work in batches and it sometimes takes a year or more for the wait. Call or e-mail www.danwessonfirearms.com (http://www.danwessonfirearms.com) and ask how long it would take to get your spec'd out gun.


I am sorry that you received bad service and I have no suggestion on any action you can take. But I wish you the best of luck.

[wichaka]

I've known Rick for a lot of years, but won't try to explain out what happened with you, as I was not involved.

If you want a first class 1911, Rick is the guy. If you look at the 'Street Duece' and their other offerings, they resemble the Detonics 1911's of old.

Too bad about the service...........or lack there of. You don't see many of the guns out anywhere, you'd think they'd bend over trying to get them out in the public.

If you're done with them I understand.............if there's anything left that might still be tugging at you to try one of their guns, I'd call Rick directly and talk with him. He can usually straighten things out.

Good luck.

[mr Hotgun]

The street Deuce is that a new model or some upgraded matchmaster ??

[fwarren94551]

Thanks for the support, guys. Mostly I want people to be aware of the customer service.

I have nothing but praise for Mr. Niemer. I've only spoken to him twice but he's been courteous and professional to a fault. Unfortunately he is employed by Olympic and cannot honorably say much about any of this; I have not tasked him in that way either as that would be poor heart on my part.

The Street Deuce has been around for a few years. Except for Workman I'd never heard of one before.

[gigmike]

Olympic's lack of customer service seems to be a common theme that pops up in other forums & at the range quite often. I have friends who know Rick Niemer and hold him in very high regard and who've insisted I talk to him before committing to a Baer or Ed Brown 1911. I'll probably have a chat with him but I'm very leery of dealing with Olympic on this expensive a purchase. Too bad.

[fwarren94551]

Olympic's lack of customer service seems to be a common theme that pops up in other forums & at the range quite often. I have friends who know Rick Niemer and hold him in very high regard and who've insisted I talk to him before committing to a Baer or Ed Brown 1911. I'll probably have a chat with him but I'm very leery of dealing with Olympic on this expensive a purchase. Too bad.

I concur. Niemer is supposed to be one of the very best, and when he builds a gun, it is both fairly accurate and runs and runs. But one has to run the customer service gauntlet all the time. Baers aren't but a couple hundred more costly, and Les makes sure you get taken care of.

It's a real contrast, and a real shame that Oly runs things this way, that they have a couple of sour apples taking care of people. They could be much more successful than they are if they'd get rid of the jerks on the phones who think customers are a problem instead of the reason they are in business.

Frank

[jester_s1]

Maybe there's just nobody there who cares, but assuming there is you'll do the company a service by being persistent and getting someone responsible on the phone. It sounds like there must be a ballbuster there somewhere, otherwise the rude guy wouldn't have minded you talking to him.

[Herknav]

fwarren,

Please keep us apprised of how this works out for you. I have a Detonics that needs a little TLC. My options are:

1) Wait for Sid Woodcock. (Jerry Ahern at Detonics USA has told me they will look at old ones once they catch up on current production.)

2) See if Robbie Barkman will look at it. From what I heard, he doesn't like to even mention New Detonics.

3) Pay more and get Richard Niemer to look at it. I've heard this will be more pricey, but will get it done quickly.

If this is a company that doesn't want customers, I can oblige them. However, in fairness to them, I agree w/ jester. If they show good faith by working w/ you, I might consider them.

[wichaka]

I'd contact Rick personally. He still does alot of work at his own shop and would most likely help you out.

[Joni Lynn]

I have always wanted a Springfield 1911. I have spoken to the people that manned their booth at 2 different NRA annual shows and been treated poorly both times. The last time I tried to have an intelligent conversation with their representative and he would look at me when I asked the question and then answer the question to the gentlman that was with me. My friend even said "don't talk to me, she's the one that wants a gun". So I continue to not have a Springfield. I did speak with Para and Kimber and they were wonderful to talk with. I was very impressed with most of the vendors and spent time with the Les Baer rep and a lot of time in the Rock River Arms display. Needless to say customer service is important in all aspects of dealing with the public.

[fwarren94551]

I have always wanted a Springfield 1911. I have spoken to the people that manned their booth at 2 different NRA annual shows and been treated poorly both times. The last time I tried to have an intelligent conversation with their representative and he would look at me when I asked the question and then answer the question to the gentlman that was with me. My friend even said "don't talk to me, she's the one that wants a gun". So I continue to not have a Springfield. I did speak with Para and Kimber and they were wonderful to talk with. I was very impressed with most of the vendors and spent time with the Les Baer rep and a lot of time in the Rock River Arms display. Needless to say customer service is important in all aspects of dealing with the public.

Yes, it is. And I wonder how many women most gun dealers turn away by talking ONLY to the man and not the woman who has to live with it? Gun dealers in CA tend to be more polite as women and the dealers know it, are on their own down there. Liberal states - I'll never understand them.

Some guys in the gun business are just macho jerks. You've probably met the highly overweight guy who used to be "Special Forces" and so on. Every time there is a movie that features Navy Seals you fall all over "former SEALs" at gun shows. Same with Special Forces. I've met thousands who served in the Mekong Delta and near Khe Sahn. :D

Gun's just a tool. I wish we could lose the romanticism and the "nostalgia" about it. Watching someone die is no fun at all unless one belongs in a cage, and doing it is even less fun. The guy may be dangerous enough if one has to pot him but he looks damned harmless when dead.

Nothing romantic or manly about it - and that men and women have a legitimate need for a gun is a real shame. We should all be target shooters trying to make it to Camp Perry or the Olympics, doing our Zen on the firing line, being relaxed and at peace.

And by all means, buy from those who will look you in the eye and give you honest answers to your questions. Springfield is good. But if one has extra dosh there are better.

[fwarren94551]

fwarren,

Please keep us apprised of how this works out for you. I have a Detonics that needs a little TLC. My options are:

1) Wait for Sid Woodcock. (Jerry Ahern at Detonics USA has told me they will look at old ones once they catch up on current production.)

2) See if Robbie Barkman will look at it. From what I heard, he doesn't like to even mention New Detonics.

3) Pay more and get Richard Niemer to look at it. I've heard this will be more pricey, but will get it done quickly.

If this is a company that doesn't want customers, I can oblige them. However, in fairness to them, I agree w/ jester. If they show good faith by working w/ you, I might consider them.

Well, it hasn't really worked out. I'll try to post a photo of one of the guns. It's all castings, apparently even the small parts. Richard Niemer hand-selected the frames and look at the photo carefully. This gun cost within $30 of my Concept V and is nowhere nearly as well finished. I presume that it'll run; I'll make it down to walmart tomorrow for cheap ammo and try one of them out.

They apparently sell VERY few guns for Richard to work on. I have serial numbers SPW 104 and 105. If Baer did work like this, he'd be long broke instead of highly admired and much discussed.

Look at it and tell me what you think of it as a gun that is supposed to retail for about $1500 or so.

I seem to need help in the meanwhile on how to post an image so you guys can see for yourself. Confucius say picture worth thousand words. Save bandwidth that way.

[fwarren94551]

http://home.comcast.net/~frankwarren/deuce.jpg

[fwarren94551]

For comparison purposes.

http://home.comcast.net/~frankwarren/conceptv.jpg

[fwarren94551]

I leave fit-and-finish comparisons to the reader as an exercise. I know one guy who has a Street Deuce who considers it the better gun but for the life of me, I don't know why.

Olympic Arms advertises this gun as their best. The Concept V is, along with the Premier II, the bottom of Les Baer's food chain and both (Oly and Baer) cost within $30 of each other brand new with the same 10% markup when I bought each pistol.

The marks on the Baer's front dust cover and bottom of the frame are dye from holsters. The gun has been carried 8 months continuously in Seattle. The Olympic Arms gun is fresh out of the box.

So there you go, and now you know.

Richard Niemer is supposedly an excellent gunsmith, and he went over these guns painstakingly by his tale. But until I shoot the snot out of them, the finish is what I have to go by. And it does not look promising.

Frank

[James Lee]

Crazy, sounds like Oly is on a Hellbound Train. Too bad, I love mine. Jim

[fwarren94551]

Crazy, sounds like Oly is on a Hellbound Train. Too bad, I love mine. Jim

Jim,

I think mine are well-made, but they're not up to a Les Baer, Springfield Custom, Kimber Custom or Bill Wilson. They're priced like the lower end of those custom deals but don't sport an appropriate finish and look.

Frank

[stretch]

The owner is my my friend and fellow Mocilps resident.I will bring this up the Bob S. the next time I see him.He is a no ** type and has many things going on besides Olympic so he is trusting them to be good with the folks.I have several of his AR's and have sold a number of his pistols.He is one of those self made guys and sure would cut no slack to anyone messing up the Biz.Stretch

[Hersh]

He is one of those self made guys and sure would cut no slack to anyone screwing up the Biz.Stretch

'Must be something about good gunsmiths! The good ones I've met are the same way!

Hersh

PS: A note about customer service ... years ago I was taught a valuable lesson by one of my employers. He said, "If you treat someone well, they'll go out and tell 10 of their friends. If you treat them poorly they'll tell 100!"

[DOUBLEG]

Joni Lynn I have noticed how bad women are treated by all gun dealers first hand. Everytime I go shooting or llook around a gun store with my mother, sister, or girlfriend they are ignored and treated with no respect. This seems illogical from what I have noticed about womens spending habbits. They LOVE to buy stuff. :D

[nra-life-member]

For comparison purposes.

http://home.comcast.net/~frankwarren/conceptv.jpg

Do you still have these pictures? I have been thinking of the 1911 by OA and was hunting for feedback.

Thanks.