Probably old news but I had a dream yesterday...

[Blakenzy]

..about slide to frame fit. Every where I look I see companies and smiths advertising their precision fitted slide to frame as if it is a really live-or-die important aspect. But is it really that important as some make us believe? I have personally seen 1911's that rattle when shaken and still shoot very tight groups. I have been thinking lately and now believe that accuracy in the 1911 platform is more dependant on the slide to barrel fit, whereas slide to frame is but a distant second or third factor, if it is at all important to accuracy.

So why will a 1911 that rattles shoot true in the hands of a human shooter but poorly from a mechanical rest or arm? Well in this dream I had yesterday I finally put two and two together: the slide on a gun that has a loose fit definitely jumps around when the pistol is shot, however as long as the barrel and slide mate in the same position after each shot there will be no variation in POA-POI. After a shot the slide will be pointing in a different direction than it originally was, but as long as the relationship of sight plane and bore axis remais constant, all the human shooter has to do during the second shot to hit the same place is realign the sights in the same way he did on the first shot. In a mechanical arm, the receiver will be held perfectly still, but the slide will dance around on top of it. So, after each shot the slide/barrel assembly will be pointing in a different direction, and if the gun is not repositioned to correctly line up the sights every time, you will get poor accuracy on target.

Is this correct? Is slide to frame fit really all that it's made out to be? Please enlighten me.

[Joni Lynn]

I've asked that question of people such as the late Jim Clark and his response was that it is maybe responsible for the last very few percent of accuracy improvement.
If you are using a frame mounted optic then slide/frame fit would also be more important as would shooting from a Ransom rest.
Sounds like you have a goo dunderstanding of it.
My opinion is that if you are looking to wring the very last bit of potential accuracy out of your gun then slide to frame fit should be good.

[skunkworks]

very interesting...conceptually, you may be on to something. but remember all things connect and influence the each other, via the link. i am learning but there are those around who actually know what they are talking about. have a great day.

[1911Tuner]

interesting...conceptually, you may be on to something. but remember all things connect and influence the each other, via the link.

Correctly fitted, the link should be in very light compression at the very most...and that only in the rear radius of the barrel lug as the curvature forces the lug to climb it for that last few thousandths of an inch. In short, the link shouldn't have any effect on the repeatable...for lack of a better term...lockup when the gun is in battery.
If the barrel is standing or "locking" on the link, the link is too long...or...if the vertical specs of the gun require a long link to effect full lug vertical engagement...it's a whole 'nother set of problems. In any event, using a long link to more tightly wedge the barrel into the slide often produces worse accuracy, and can bring on a few other troubles.

[skunkworks]

Joni Lynn, i was not inferring that you did not know your material. i was typing when you had already posted. i did not know; my bad, sorry if i come across wrong.

Tuner, i think skunkworks the blind is beginning to see. so i assume a shorter link should cure my newborn's 3-point jam issue? the barrel lug is already really close to frame. i realize it would only be thousandths of an inch.

[Joni Lynn]

I understood..........no foul.
Besides I sorta know my material........cotton, nylon 'n that stretchy stuff. ;)

[deadmarsh]

If you have time to play, get different sized links and install, reinstall, and play with them as you cycle. Tuner may or may not agree, but sight and sound and feel will tell you alot about the process...


Dead

[1911Tuner]

Tuner, i think skunkworks the blind is beginning to see. so I assume a shorter link should cure my newborn's 3-point jam issue?

Well...Not "should" but rather "might" cure it...and it also might bring on a whole new set of problems. While I won't simply disagree with deadmarsh across the board on ANY link-swapping, I'll just reiterate a point that I've so often made...that being that you can cause yourself some fairly expensive trouble while playing with various links unless you fully understand what the link does...why it does it...and what to look for to forestall a problem. If all you want to do is try several links and go through the cycle manually...Fine...Go for it. You can learn a lot. Just don't assume that the link that you setele on is the correct one and go burn up a few hundred rounds to see whsat happens. Without a full understanding, you could find out that your choice was dead wrong and destructive.

[deadmarsh]

If all you want to do is try several links and go through the cycle manually...Fine...Go for it. You can learn a lot.

Exactly my point -- more an education versus supplying the answer to a specific problem...


Just don't assume that the link that you settle on is the correct one and go burn up a few hundred rounds to see what happens. Without a full understanding, you could find out that your choice was dead wrong and destructive.

I couldn't agree more...


Dead