Imbel?

[Hawkmoon]

A Brazilian company that makes parts for Springfield Armory 1911s. They also make 1911 pistols themselves, including some interesting models that include double-stack models in .380ACP, 9mm and .45ACP.

Anyone know if they are any good regarding quality? And if they are imported into the U.S.?

[AGB]

Hawkmoon,

You can reach Imbel export department in the phone number 55-12-3156-9057, You may talk to Mrs. Renata, she speaks english. She'll be able to talk to You and explain the necessary steps to export to You the gun You may want.
As for the gun quality, I have an old .380 Mod.1, that I purchased new in 1993. Haven't shot a lot with it, and had to make some minor blending at the barrel base and at the ramp that 's between the magazine and the barrel itself. Looks and behaves like an indestructible thing. I have another .380 pistol, a Taurus (Magtech) model PT58, and I can get better groups at 25 yards with the Imbel than with the Taurus. Personally I love the single action mechanism of the 1911 design. They have a reputation here of being quite resistant, preserving the image from the original Colt models. One quite interesting feature is in the barrel, it is fixed direct to the frame and has no movable link like in the original Colt models. It has a rectangular block that is part of the barrel, instead of the original desing of the barrel link. There are some other models, 9mm, with barrel's size going from around 4 to 6 inches, (108-128 milimiters) and there are like You stated single and double stacked models.
Although personally I do not take it into account, they have got an ISO 9002 certification by Embraer, an aerospatial brazilian group for using aerospace materials in the manufacturing of some models. They do also have a Mauser style rifle in caliber 7,62X51 - Winchester .308 that is quite an interesting gun.

[Hawkmoon]

Thank you very much for the information.

[AGB]

May send You some pics of a disassembled Imbel if You care.

[Hawkmoon]

I am becoming more and more interested in the Imbel 1911, double stack in .380. There does not appear to be a U.S. importer, but it appears that it's possible for my FFL dealer to import one or two guns legally, so that's not a problem.

AGB, their web site does not provide any price information, and I will not be able to call to them until I return home. Can you provide any information regarding price?

Thank you.

[AGB]

Hawkmoon,

I called them early today about their .45 models, MD3A2 and TP plus, both around US$ 650 here. The export price should be lower, and the .380 double stack should be cheaper. Here will be holliday till feb 10th. Now it's too late for me to call them, it's 7 pm now, already closed. No problem for them to export .380 guns.

[Hawkmoon]

$650 isn't a terrible price for a 1911, but it's higher than many here sell for so I doubt they could sell them in the U.S. at that price. Perhaps that's why there isn't an importer. What I don't understand is why they should sell for less in the U.S. than in the country where they are manufactured. Taxes?

[AGB]

Taxes of course, guns here have 50% sales taxes, the price should be around 400. There is an article here in the site about a Springfiled gun, saw it today, and it sells there for around 400. It's the very same stuff. But there is only one way to be sure, contacting them after the carnival hollidays!

[AGB]

Hawkmoon,

Heading home now, have a great weekend!

[einnar45]

I have no problem on my Imbel .45 1911 for 4 years of regular firing at the range. A troathed barrel, lowered ejection port and nice slide to frame fit from the box.

[nbelardo]

want to know where can i get more/extra information about imbel 1911.... is this brand good? how much is the ongoing price of an imbell 1911 (stock)

[einnar45]

http://www.imbel.gov.br/

[Hawkmoon]

There is no price information. They do not appear to have a U.S. importer. Imbel makes the slides for Springfield Armory. When I contacted Imbel to ask about buying a gun, they told me to contact Donna at SA. When I did so, she told me theat SA is not licensed to import the gun. I have now contacted Imbel again, and I am awaiting their reply.

Caveat: Imbel offers a 1911 chambered in .380 ACP. That's the gun I want to buy, because nobody else has one (or is likely to want one), so it would be somewhat unique. What Donna actually wrote is that SA is not licensed to import "that caliber." SA might be able to bring in a complete gun in .45 ACP -- but why would they do that if it's going to compete against their own offerings?

If you want to try, go to SA's web site, get the 800 phone number, and call Donna Rahn. Heck, while you're on the phone, ask her about the 1911 in .380 ACP. If they think there's a niche market for a gun they don't make, perhaps they'll get a license to bring it in. :)

[nbelardo]

want to know where can i get more/extra information about imbel 1911.... is this brand good? how much is the ongoing price of an imbell 1911 (stock)
thanks bro.... but the price does not appear on the website ....is ur imbel performs well?hows the accuracy compare to other 1911?

[valor1]

nbelardo,
the Imbels were imported in the Philippines by Twin Pines. Some early Rock Island Armory pistols were actually made by Imbel (now it is made by Armscorp). Some will swear that the quliaty of Imbel are the same with Springfields. One good thing is that Imbel frames and slides are forged and are made very well. Like all other brands, they have the occassional lemons too. Imbel's in the used market may start from P 30 thou.

One more thing, Twin Pines no longer import Imbel pistols (something to do with importation bans or some sort with BRazil's government).

[nbelardo]

nbelardo,
the Imbels were imported in the Philippines by Twin Pines. Some early Rock Island Armory pistols were actually made by Imbel (now it is made by Armscorp). Some will swear that the quliaty of Imbel are the same with Springfields. One good thing is that Imbel frames and slides are forged and are made very well. Like all other brands, they have the occassional lemons too. Imbel's in the used market may start from P 30 thou.

One more thing, Twin Pines no longer import Imbel pistols (something to do with importation bans or some sort with BRazil's government).
found the site very useful..... thanks bros..... is modifying an imbel worth than modifying/customizing colts or other top of the line brands?

[valor1]

If the gun is a keeper, then modify it to your heart's content. If you intend to sell it also later, don't expect too much for a higher resale value. Filipinos are more brand conscious than anything else. As an example, look at the Norincos. IT really took a while for the Filipino shooters that it is a good base gun. When the demand went up, the enterprising distributors suddenly ioncreased their selling price. Still, when you sell the Norinco, they'll buy it from you cheap. If you have the budget, you'll never go wrong in choosing the Colts, STI or any other high end named pistols.

In our country, even if you spent the best parts and employed the best smith, if the base gun is cheap, everything else follows. Mostly second hand buyers will just ask you to make the modifications as a sort of freebie.

[nbelardo]

If the gun is a keeper, then modify it to your heart's content. If you intend to sell it also later, don't expect too much for a higher resale value. Filipinos are more brand conscious than anything else. As an example, look at the Norincos. IT really took a while for the Filipino shooters that it is a good base gun. When the demand went up, the enterprising distributors suddenly ioncreased their selling price. Still, when you sell the Norinco, they'll buy it from you cheap. If you have the budget, you'll never go wrong in choosing the Colts, STI or any other high end named pistols.

In our country, even if you spent the best parts and employed the best smith, if the base gun is cheap, everything else follows. Mostly second hand buyers will just ask you to make the modifications as a sort of freebie.
thanks bro....:-)

[TRPin]

I read somewhere that Springfield armory no longer makes their own guns but imports them from Brasil. If I remember correctly, under the grip panel on a SA pistol I saw recently it was stamped "Made in Brasil". I saw a rep from Taurus on TV yesterday showing off thier 1911. It has lots of goodies on it and they plan on selling them for around $500.00 I wonder if all of these pistols are made under the same roof? :rolleyes:

[John Michael]

I am Brazilian and very new to IPSC sport. The word here in Brazil is that it is almost impossible at this moment to acquire an Imbel .380 because the factory went into strike some time ago and the export contracts to springfields amory are late.

So, unless there are some changes in specs demanded by Springfields, they are the same weapon. That is why there is no distribuitor in the US.

Best Regards

[Hawkmoon]

I am Brazilian and very new to IPSC sport. The word here in Brazil is that it is almost impossible at this moment to acquire an Imbel .380 because the factory went into strike some time ago and the export contracts to springfields amory are late.

So, unless there are some changes in specs demanded by Springfields, they are the same weapon. That is why there is no distribuitor in the US.

Best Regards
Hello, John.

No, they are not the same weapon. The Imbel Pistola .380 looks like a 1911 (specifically a CCO -- Commander slide on an Officers-size frame), but it is different inside. There is no barrel link, the barrel is fixed in position and there are no locking lugs. It operates on direct blowback.

I think the reason nobody imports it to the U.S. is that we can buy 9mm handguns here, so why would anyone want to buy a similar gun firing a less powerful cartridge of the same caliber? The pistol exists because in Brazil 9mm is considered to be a "military" cartridge, which most private citizens cannot own legally.

The reason I want one is that I know it exists, so I would like to have one -- especially if I get to be the only kid on the block who has it.

[John Michael]

Hawkmoon,

You are right regarding the 9 mm in Brazil. They are very restricted.

I would like to take the opportunity to ask you a question. As I said, I am new to guns, pistols and IPSC.

Which pistol, in your opinion, would be better for IPSC: the IMBEL .380 or the "Springfield".380?

Thanks in advance.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't think you have that choice. As far as I know (and I discussed this with Springfield again just a week or two ago), Springfield has no contract with Imbel regarding the .380. I am trying to convince them to bring it here, but at this moment it does not exist with the Springfield name.

The question for you, I believe, is what class you wish to compete in. The Imbel Pistola .380 is available in a single stack version and in a double stack version (the "GC" models, I guess that means "grand capacity" however that is spelled in Portuguese). I do not compete, so perhaps I am not the best person to ask. We have a forum area for competition. I suggest that you post your question there, with a link to the English version of the Imbel web site, and ask our competitor members which version of the .380 would be best for a new competitor.

The single stack has a capacity of 9+1, so it would be perfect for the Limited 10 class. The GC models have a capacity of 19+1 rounds -- so it would be great for a class that requires you to shoot all day with only one magazine. :)

[yyz]

looking at the BATFs website this model may not be importable under the 68gca
i can't find a ruling but by using the point system on form 4590

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEA-Docs/4590a2X.pdf

if my understanding of the size of this pistol is corect (the imbel wesite did not seem to have complete size figures) a comander slide and officer grip. then the total points are at 68 or so in .380 but in 9mm it would be 75 which is the lowest number for import (.380 is only 3 points were 9mm is 10)
YMMV
i am by no means am expert on us firearms law (but then who is)
the only reason i even know a little about this is old ppk/ppks import hassel were the .32 .380 ppk had to have the pp frame and target sights and target grips to be importable hence the model ppks.

BTW if this model was to be imported i would have to get one myself

[Hawkmoon]

I have converted the dimensions and weights, and run the points. I believe the steel-frame models will pass on points (after all, it's a larger and heavier pistol that the Llama Micro-Max .380), but I don't think the alloy-frame model will pass.

[yyz]

if this does not prove how messed up the 68gca is i don't know what will
the llama micro max 380 gets 20 extra points over the imbel due to the firing pin block (10 points) target grips, yes that thumb rest makes them target grips (5 points) and the extrnal extractor counts as a loaded chamber indicator dur to it being raised when there is a round in the chamber (5 points)
kind of crazy an't it
i beileve if the imbel 380 had target sights(click adjustable sights) it would be ok
rember not only does the pistol have to have more then 75 points i beleive that most importers like a bit of a margin like 80 points or so to be on the safe side incase one of the points get disallowed
the batfe can be a real pain to deal with. if someone gets it in their mind to say no there is almost no way to get a second ruling or appeal.
it is a shame as i believe the imbel would be a lot better pistol then the llama

[Hawkmoon]

It isn't mentioned on the Imbel web site, but the Imbel Pistola .380 has a Series 80 style firing pin safety. And it's easy to add a loaded chamber notch to the barrel hood, if they don't already do that. But I think it passes on points just the way it rolls out of the factory.

Now, if we could just get the factory to roll some out ...

[yyz]

well with a Series 80 style firing pin safety that would put my consereitve estament at 78+ points or by your estiment well over 80 so it should be importable
now to just get someone to import it. from my expriance imbel makes a very good product (SA 1911s and fal recivers)
note to self call/write SA about interest in the imbel 380, maybe if enough of us show interest it may happen.
can't own too many 1911 style pistols

[Hawkmoon]

Before you call SA, let those of us who have been working on this for a couple of years keep working a bit longer. My abiding fear is that SA would bring it in, but what would be a $350 pistol done through quasi-private importation would have a $650 price tag with the SA name on it.

[yyz]

NP Hawkmoon i guess i miss read an earlier post about SA having no lic to this pistol and assumed that was who you were trying to get to import it.
maybe a one time small import with a small importer as a group buy???
yes i know i am dreaming but a guy has to have dreams!!!

[John Michael]

I just acquired a IMBEL 380 GC here in Brazil. I paid the equivalente of USD 1226,00.

As I posted somewhere else, Imbel (a state owned company) was in strike for several months and is in considerable financial dificulties (about USD 100 mm financial debt). As a consequence, when it went back online it had a significant backlog of orders, mainly from SA, which keeps pushing the 380 production to the end of the priority list.

The result is that there is a waiting line of at least 6 months (more like 9) here in Brazil to get it. That is why I came to this forum in the first place (to see if SA imported the 380 so that I could buy it in the USA and "re-exporte" it back to Brazil).

It is crazy, but even at USD 650, it would get back to Brazil cheaper then I actualy paid here. If you can get it at USD 350, I can get to at least 100 people that would buy it and get it back to Brazil.

You could ask why dont we buy a Taurus. The reason is that most of this people are IPSC shooters and the Taurus does not take well the "abuse" of so many shots. The Imbel is another story: it is built like a tank.

Since I am in Brazil, let me know if I can help in anyway.

All the best

[Hawkmoon]

Cool, another potential ally in the effort to bring those toys here.

Thank you, Sir -- if we need local assistance, we'll call on you.

[cliff731]

Hawkmoon, I've found this thread to be most interesting to me. I've visited Imbel's website in the past and drooled over one of their 1911 pistols- the M973 9mm 1911 pistol-

http://www.imbel.gov.br/imagens/101.jpg

Clearly, one can see some hints of SA's Mil-Spec in this pistol... but the differences are very nice. It has a "Commander" type hammer and grip safety with front strap checkering. The ejection port is lowered but no flare.

True, I could do this to a Mil-Spec, but finding a 9mm Mil-Spec is difficult. I am very taken by this 9mm Imbel pistol and want one as you desire the Imbel .380 pistol.

[cliff731]

Here's two more of Imbel's .45 ACP 1911A1 pistols. The one in the top of the photo is calling my name-

http://www.imbel.gov.br/imagens/89.jpg

I suspect there's more than a few forum members who would want one of these two 1911A1 pistols.