Question about the LDA

[Mikethenewb]

Hello folks...

I plan on purchasing a new Para soon and plan to modify it heavliy (with aftermarket parts)

The single biggest question I have is this

Is the trigger pull on the LDA modles really as light as a single action? If not how close to the single action trigger pull is it?

Second question.

Para's new PXT technology ?.....does it really make that big of a difference in accuracy and smoothe shooting?

Thanks in advance folks.

[SMMAssociates]

Mike:

The trigger pull is extremely light, IMHO. Right up there with a nicely tuned 1911 SA, or your average SA revolver.

Not "hair trigger", btw. Just light.... Compared to my more or less stock Commander, the biggest difference is that the trigger hangs on a pin rather than just sits there, so the pull is at a slight angle instead of straight back, and it's longer by almost enough to feel safe carrying the gun with the safety off.

What you're really buying is an odd hybrid - working the slide cocks the mainspring the same way you'd pull the hammer back on any SA weapon. Pulling the trigger causes the (sometimes vestigal) hammer to come back (this may almost be cosmetic) and then the sear trips whatever's holding the mainspring. That grabs the hammer and slams it into the firing pin.

The net effect is that it looks & feels like firing a double-action gun (more like a revolver, IMO) by the "staging" method where you pull back on the trigger far enough to get all the good parts tensioned, but don't quite break. A little more trigger travel and it fires.

I alternately shoot a Tac-Four (LDA) and an old Commander, and if I don't look at the hammer, they're almost the same. But the Tac-Four doesn't look as nasty even though it's in Condition One.

Really a "try it" thing, but most people who try one seem to appreciate it, even if they don't buy it....

The Power Extractor's another issue.... I understand that some of the early versions were a breakage risk, but that problem seems to have gone away. The extractor is made up of several parts, but the overall function is rather similar to an external extractor, where a spring-loaded widget with a hook rides on the cartridge rim. However, all the good parts are inside the slide, and the actual hook is HUGE. I'd recommend keeping a spare "in stock" if you're concerned about breakage, because your average gun shop isn't going to have one, but the only hazard point I can think of is the little projection on the "hook" part that locks into the larger main portion.

Browning's extractor design feels to have been a good compromise within the materials available at the time, and is damn simple, but needs some tuning skills if you deviate from GI ammo or manage to mistreat it. I'm not sure the PXT design could have been built in 1911 with any sort of reliability at a reasonable cost, a problem we don't have now....

Just my $0.02.... I've had the Tac-Four for about six months, and while I've been fighting the 13-round magazines that came with it, and managed to lose the spring that works the firing pin block, the parts that live in the slide have been just fine. All kinds of ammo through it (testing the magazines :D ) with no real indications of wear.

Regards,

[BQ87]

I picked up a PXT LDA Hi-Cap Ltd right after new years and have been pretty happy with it so far. I normally carry a kimber and have several, but since the spouse got a new gun at that gun show, I wanted one too and that was the choice. So far, I have found it to be reliable, accurate and easy to shoot. The LDA is nice and provides an even trigger pull. I don't know about claims of being light as a single action but it is very easy and light compared to any DAs i have shot. the PXT seems to work well too. Overall I am very happy with it. good luck and have fun with the new toy

[Mikethenewb]

Thank you so much for your reply.....it was precisly the information I needed. Let me hit you with one more question.


What do you folks think about this?

http://www.ncggasgun.com/

I just found the website today and I am going to try and call them for more info.

The big questions I have here would be are these barrels going to be made for any of the Para-ordinance line?.......how would they effect the PXT features (if at all) and would they adversely effect the LDA models?

[Hawkmoon]

I have an older Para P12.45 and a newer LDA12.45. Trigger pull on both, measured with a scale, is 4-1/2 pounds. The P12 trigger was reworked for the previous owner, the LDA12 I bought new and the trigger has not been tweaked at all. That's the way it came out of the box.

The PXT technology is the larger extractor. Doesn't, IMHO, affect shooting at all, but should affect reliability. I haven't seen one "up close and personal," but to me it looks like they found a way to put an external-type extractor internally.

[SMMAssociates]

The PXT technology is the larger extractor. Doesn't, IMHO, affect shooting at all, but should affect reliability. I haven't seen one "up close and personal," but to me it looks like they found a way to put an external-type extractor internally. Hawk: Exactly.... A short pivoted extractor, very much like an external, but riding inside an oversized extractor tube of the 1911 persuasion. Spring tension is provided by a slightly off-center spring between the two halves of the extractor body. The halves are held together by a protrusion or hook on the front part riding in a cutout on the rear part. The spring is the key 'cause there's no "spring effect" in any of the other parts like a normal 1911 extractor, which is it's own spring.

I heard that the early PXT's were prone to break, but that's supposed to have changed. Mine appears to be rock solid - the PXT parts are quite a bit larger than standard.

You can also (carefully) remove the entire extractor for cleaning about as easily as any 1911, and, while it might be a good idea once in a while, you probably can avoid disassembling the extractor when you do that. Dunk it in something.... :)

As I mentioned someplace else, I don't think this design could be made in a reliable form in 1911, and it is a complication (which JWB liked to avoid), but it sure seems to do what it's supposed to do. If nothing else, the extractor hook is huge....

Regards,

[Chuck S]

When my PXT extractor broke (before 100 rounds went downrange) I had a long conversation with the folks at Para. The number of problems reported to them was four (4). Mine was the forth and it'd been many months since #3 occurred. That was in June. We're not seeing any mention of broken PXT extractors on the M1911 forums. Nada. (Unlike Kimber extraction problems.)

I'm convinced the PXT is reliable.

I'm concerned about Mike's initial post: heavily modify a LDA with aftermarket parts. What aftermarket parts? Grips and sights? OK. But what else? The LDA is nothing like the M1911 inside the frame.

The LDA trigger is about 4 pounds, at least my Para CCW was. Feels even lighter as it is two stage. Very long trigger pull is no problem. Very long reset takes getting used to and I was very busy.

-- Chuck

[SMMAssociates]

Chuck:

I've never measured the trigger on my Tac-Four, but I'll concur with the rest - two stage, light, etc. Even though it's Condition One, you can safely carry it, IMHO, with the safety off, for a while - as you might pop the safety off a DAO or DA/SA. Although light, there's enough travel there that only a balky holster would be a risk.

You can change the mainspring housing, too, on an LDA. The Tac-Four's is similar to the Officer's, but that doesn't fit. Grips are interchangeable, of course, as are sights. AFAIK, hammers are also reasonably standard, as are slide stops and safeties (and ambi safeties), although you still may need Para-specific components. I'm told (I asked George Wedge) that the beavertails are not drop-ins if your gun didn't already have one (like my Tac-Four, which doesn't), but, within Para's line, should be swappable. Para barrels should be interchangeable across the line, too, if they're the same type (integral ramp or no integral ramp). Firing pins, firing pin block hardware, and most springs ought to be reasonably interchangeable, too, again, possibly only within Para's line.

I heard someplace that Para is offering to modify slides to fit the new PXT - it's really just enlarging the hole, but I'd not feel comfortable without factory jigs. Maybe a 3/8" hole v.s. a quarter-inch, or something in that sort of ratio.

The biggest difference between the LDA and ordinary SA, I think, is the large frame cut used to make room for the trigger bar. That seems to preclude alloy frames. Next up is the trigger bow cutouts - the LDA guns don't have 'em. The rest of the good stuff seems to live on the hammer pin, but it's not your father's 1911. The sear spring and the way it engages (and the little bitty coil spring that rides on it) is totally different, too.

So, the short answer is that you probably could take an LDA and trick it out with SS slide stops, safeties, etc., or provide blue/black hardware on an SS gun.

I'm not sure about those barrels. The market for Para-specific models may be too small. The whole thing sounds kind of insane, but I'm not qualified to judge it. However, the fully ramped Para barrel requires different frame cuts to allow for the ramp, and a non-ramped barrel may not fit/operate in a Para frame. (This would apply to all models, not just LDA, that are set up for the ramped barrel.)

The only thing about the Para LDA that bothers me at all is the rather flimsy trigger bar, and that some of the little parts on the hammer pin are awfully "fine". OTOH, I've had a PPK/S for over 30 years with a very similar trigger bar, and it's OK. It seems, though, that there aren't any problems.

I think I'd go with a single-stacker if I had it to do over again, but that's because of some magazine issues that single-stackers usually don't have..

Regards,

[John]

Since the original question was also refering to "accuracy", I do not think that the new extractor that Para is using has any effect on accuracy (either positive or negative).

As for the NCG conversion, unless you have 1000 $ to spend on something that is not sure to work, I wouldn't advise it. One of our previous sponsors here, has bought the design, hoping to make it work, but he also stopped working on this idea. Last I heard, it was NOT working.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but this is the info I have.

Rgds