what am i missing w/XSE: why so "cheap" (relative to plain gvt model)

[jlh2600]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=colt+1911

Colt 1911 XSE Govt Enhanced Competition Blue .45acp $764.19
Colt 1911 Govt.45acp Blue $766.39

Why is it that the model with all the "enhancements" is the same price as the standard model (actually it's even slightly cheaper)?!

Not just at Buds, but even on GB the XSE is under eight bills- though I will point out that that the picture at least in Bud's does NOT show the XSE with Novak "style" sights, and all the ones I see on GB do show that. So this list I pulled off one auction. Do me a favor and tell me if any of the following is ** (as standard features on XSE)?

-Novak low mount sights
-front serrations (slanted vs straight)
-extended abi safety
-adjustable al trigger
-combat hammer
-"enhanced tolerences"
-Ti firing pin
-heavy duty spring
-hammer forged match quality throated barrel
-carry bevel treatment
-flared and lowered ejection port


And if NOT **- what am I missing? How is all of the above offered at the same price? Is it just that people are willing to pay more for 70 series, or is the XSE that good of a deal, or a little of both?

Thanks.

[Enfield476]

I checked-out the gunshop-site you posted and you are right! There ain't no explination, so buy the pistol you want! Good price! Any day you can find a Colt's for less than 8 is a GOOD day! Go forth, young man, and be shoots'tab'le! (another new word that I learned recently). And while you're at it, have a VERY merry Christmas!!

Al

[jlh2600]

I checked-out the gunshop-site you posted and you are right! There ain't no explination, so buy the pistol you want!

Yeah, I understand the choice would ultimately boil down to personal preference, but from how you responded, I take it you too are surprised to see those models listed at the same price? Despite the fact that there is no explanation necessary, the XSE is unanimously considered to be a "higher end" Colt?

I was recently told that the "plain" govt model is actually from the custom shop, not plain at all. I can find no reference to this on COlt's page, but if true, I just want to know the advantages of the series 70 repro that make up for all the above features listed for the XSE (again if those are in fact accurate).

Is 70 series finish nicer? Does it have less MIM or plastic parts than the XSE? Just from an outsiders perspective (or non "purist" I guess), I feel like I'm looking at the XL and XLT packages and wondering why they are the same price. So I'm obviously missing something.

[Enfield476]

Just do the simple thing. Ask. If it is what you want, and, at the right price, buy. If Colt's has reduced itself to plastic (like Firestorm), ask for steel. If not, go with the Colt's. You cannot go wrong with the first girl who brung ya to the dance. I have owned many different makers of our favorite classic; Remingtons, Essex, Springfields and all the others, but there is something special...something original...about a Colt's. Own it. Even if it is not perfect, it can be fixed. Even if it does not shoot well, it can be fixed. It's a Colt's M1911 and/or a variation. It CAN be fixed. It's the most fixable handgun history has ever known. Don't trust me...trust everyone whom has ever posted here...everyone whom loves the ONE...The Colt's Model Of 1911 of 45 Rimless Smokeless...a cartridge and a weapon destined to "deprive foot-pads, evil dooers and other miscreants of their profession" (taken from a Bannerman catalogue of an earlier era).

[DuckRyder]

The "plain model" at buds is a series 70 Reissue.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Series70.asp

They are built in the custom shop there are quite a few threads on them.

When Buds gets a normal 1991 they are about 100.00 cheaper than an XSE, see the Super 38 and the 1991 Commander.

On the XSE sights, they are not real Novaks, at least mine are not, [and I am pretty sure they are plastic] they are in fact not plastic but steel with plastic dots. That is the only thing I am not 100% thrilled about on my XSE. I am 100% thrilled with my 1991. The pictures at Buds are old (as are a few on the Colt website) current XSE's have the Novak style sights.

Buds service was good on my Commander, it came in less than a week.

On the warning, the reasons have been discussed adnauseum in the housekeeping areas. If you use the "preview post" button you can double check for censored words. it will replace them with asterisk, but no warning until you hit "post".

Edit: [No MIM in Colts] Seems I was incorrect and there may be 4 MIM parts..

Edit 2: The sights are not plastic as I originally stated I thought they were, and I believe there may be some MIM parts.

[jlh2600]

They are built in the custom shop there are quite a few threads on them.


OK, but what does this mean exactly, the custom shop? Because the XSE appears to be the more "customized" model, w/the upgraded parts and especially "ehnanced tolerances".

But I do get the point of what you guys are saying- the XSE is an upgrade from the 1991, not from the 70 repro. So what advantage does the latter have, by coming from the custom shop, that the 1991/XSE do not?


(Thanks for the info and preview tip)

[jlh2600]

Edit: No MIM in Colts.

Hmm. Hope so, but give this guy a read:


For one, Colt did indeed have issues with the MIM extractors and has recently changed to ones made from barstock. I was also told that Colt uses the following materials in their new pistols:

Made from forged steel: Slide, Frame, Barrel

Made from machined barstock: Barrel Bushing, Slide Stop, Extractor, Firing Pin, Hammer, Recoil Plug, Barrel Link, Grip Screw Bushings, Sights, All Pins

Investment cast: Thumb Safety, Grip Safety, Plunger Tube

Stamped steel: Firing Pin Stop, Springs, Trigger Bow (alloy or steel finger pad)

MIM (Metal Injection Molded): Magazine Catch, Mag Catch Lock, Sear, Disconnector

Molded nylon: Mainspring Housing
http://www.m1911.org/prodte27.htm

[jlh2600]

Being made and marketed by the Colt Custom Shop, the pistols were at once designated collectibles intended for a niche market, as opposed to products intended for general public consumption. Of course the pistols were still almost as readily available as any regular-production item, but by listing them as Custom Shop-only offerings Colt cleverly managed to drop the firing pin safety system and skirt product liability concerns at the same time.


http://www.m1911.org/prodte26.htm


Is that about it? Or do the custom shop machinists get paid more?

[paul45]

The "plain model" at buds is a series 70 Reissue.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Series70.asp

They are built in the custom shop there are quite a few threads on them.

When Buds gets a normal 1991 they are about 100.00 cheaper than an XSE, see the Super 38 and the 1991 Commander.

On the XSE sights, they are not real Novaks, at least mine are not, and I am pretty sure they are plastic. That is the only thing I am not 100% thrilled about on my XSE. I am 100% thrilled with my 1991. The pictures at Buds are old (as are a few on the Colt website) current XSE's have the Novak style sights.

Buds service was good on my Commander, it came in less than a week.

On the warning, the reasons have been discussed adnauseum in the housekeeping areas. If you use the "preview post" button you can double check for censored words. it will replace them with asterisk, but no warning until you hit "post".

Edit: No MIM in Colts.May I add that the "Champion" sights Colt uses are not plastic...http://www.championgunsights.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DFS%2D01%2D06
And there are 4 pieces made of MIM in a Colt.

[jlh2600]

LOL another warning!? I did NOTHING else!!

Snickerdoodles!

[DuckRyder]

On the 70 Series I don't have any personal experience so I'll let those that have them speak for them. Honestly, I have no problem with the series 80, so...

On the MIM, the test you posted is apparently dated 2002, and changes may or may not have been made. It is my understanding that current pistols have no MIM. To me though if it is properly made, it is not a big issue.

You might want to give this a read:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=11010

or

http://members.aol.com/lmanwebdesign/ColtTour.html

Honestly, I like things done the old fashioned way.

My advice is this:

Choose whatever Colt you want based on features not price. If you don't want the XSE's features, then don't buy it simply because it seems like a better deal or you get features for "free". I own an XSE and a 1991, but only because I had to get an XSE to get a Super 38 Commander. I certainly would not pay extra for the front cocking serrations, in fact I would pay extra not to have them. The sights on the 1991 are VERY good. They are not the old small GI style sights.

I strongly suspect that if you buy a Colt, you will not be disappointed.

[jlh2600]

DR apparently things like that change kind of frequently (like earlier runs done this way, then subsequently changed to that way etc), even w/in the same model.

Your source was probably accurate too. I'm not really worried about plastic/mim. So long as nothing breaks, I won't know any better.

[DuckRyder]

I stand corrected on the sights, it is in fact steel with white plastic dots. I guess that I mistook some faint machining marks for marbling in plastic and coupled with the obviously plastic dots assumed that the body was plastic as well. I am pleased to be wrong about this, although I personally would prefer the painted dots.

:D

[Bud White]

XSE are good guns i have 2 of them course any colt is a good gun you'll be happy with either

[dakota1911]

Going back to the initial post. Send Colt, or Mark at Colt an email and ask him. You are trying to find logic from a place that may not be logical. If you have the time, take a course from your local college in Marketing or Sales and you may understand more. It may be nothing more than they have a lot more of one stored away this quarter, but next year things will change.

[Rio Vista Slim]

If you will allow me, I would like to address some of the "features" that you have listed for the Colt XSE models.

-Novak low mount sights
-front serrations (slanted vs straight)
-extended abi safety
-adjustable al trigger
-combat hammer
-"enhanced tolerences"
-Ti firing pin
-heavy duty spring
-hammer forged match quality throated barrel
-carry bevel treatment
-flared and lowered ejection port
The sights on the XSE are Novak-style sights.
You are correct on the front serrations.
You are correct on the ambidextrous safety.
The aluminum trigger has an over-travel adjustment screw.
You are correct about the hammer.
The pistols are fitted a little tighter than some 1991 pistols, and even some of the Series 70 (current production) guns.
The firing pin is stainless steel.
The XSE uses a standard weight recoil spring as well as a standard weight mainspring.
The barrel (as in all current production Colts) features a small "dimple" on the barrel throat to enhance the feeding of certain types of hollow point ammunition.
The XSE does not have a carry bevel treatment.
You are correct about the lowered and flared ejection port.

The Series 70 guns currently being produced in the Colt Custom Shop are VERY similar to the sought after original Series 70 pistols, with some notable exceptions. Like the original, the current Series 70 DOES NOT have a firing pin safety. The current production guns DO NOT have a collet-style barrel bushing. Currently produced models DO have the "dimpled" barrel throat, and the originals DO NOT. Sight on the Series 70 of today are much larger, and better seen than the G.I. type sights of the original Series 70. The current pistol has an aluminum trigger, but that's the only thing (other than the stocks) that will not attract a magnet.

I hope that this clarifies things, a bit, on the differences between the two guns that you mentioned.

SIDE NOTE:
The XSE has a flat mainspring housing, constructed of a nylon-based polymer material. The Series 70 has an arched, steel mainspring housing.

[clughog]

Except the mainspring housing on my blued Series 70 is plastic...and I can't get Colt to send me one of the metal ones they seem to be putting on them now. Oh, well...I just like the metal ones better, but I guess it doesn't make much difference.

[jlh2600]

Thanks much Steve.

So basically then, the advantages of the XSE are legit, and its purely b.c of the popularity of the 70 series that it costs as much.

I guess the only burn is lack of lowered ejection port on the repro (a concession to keep things authentic lol). Everything else could be addressed as needed without sacrificing the finish.

Seems to me XSE = more for your money, to a non purist anyways.

[jlh2600]

Except the mainspring housing on my blued Series 70 is plastic...and I can't get Colt to send me one of the metal ones they seem to be putting on them now. Oh, well...I just like the metal ones better, but I guess it doesn't make much difference.


Interesting. How long ago did you buy yours?

[Rio Vista Slim]

Thanks much Steve.

So basically then, the advantages of the XSE are legit, and its purely b.c of the popularity of the 70 series that it costs as much.

I guess the only burn is lack of lowered ejection port on the repro (a concession to keep things authentic lol). Everything else could be addressed as needed without sacrificing the finish.

Seems to me XSE = more for your money, to a non purist anyways.
You are more than welcome, jlh2600!
The lack of a lowered and flared ejection port on the Series 70 is probably of no concern, either. I had an initial problem with dented casings (on my blue Series 70, but not the stainless one), but that went away after 100 rounds, or so, and has not recurred.

I do believe the XSE is a fine example of Colt's commitment to quality. I own one of the LW Commanders in that configuration, and carry it, daily. Good luck, and good shooting!

[clughog]

Interesting. How long ago did you buy yours?It was manufactured in 2005 and I bought it 2/1/2006. I didn't know they were putting anything but plastic on them until I saw something in another post. Checked with Kathy at Colt about getting a metal one for mine and apparently there aren't any that I can even order from Colt at this time. Someday, maybe--I just like the metal ones!