New Combat Commander

[gscrasher]

Suffering from a lust for a Colt Combat Commander, I ordered one from Davidson's. I got the 4012XSE, brushed stainless, extended ambi safety, long aluminum trigger, very good low mount, white-dot combat sights. This baby had a very peculiar low beaver-tail which works against the high, thumb-over safety grip that I use.

Now for a problem that I have not seen addressed on this or any other forum. When new, one could not drop the slide from the lock-open condition by pushing the slide further to the rear. (Of course you could drop it by depressing the slide lock lever.)

The worst problem was that the slide would lock open spontaneously 2, 3, or 4 times during each magazine fired! It was to the point that I would press the trigger then press the slide latch.

The cause of both these problems was the same. The slide stop notch was too close to the rear of the slide. I measured that distance on the new gun and found 98 mm. On my Gold Cup, on my 1991A1, and on my Springfield slides that distance is 100 mm. (Measure yours and see how it compares, from the rear bottom corner of the slide, to the rear of the lock notch opening.) I just used a plastic ruler, nothing fancy. So, at the farthest rearward motion of the slide, the front corner of the notch, just ticks the front of the slide stop, and doesn't ride over it to give it a firm downward push.

Here's the beauty of buying from Davidson's, they have a lifetime warranty. Today, I dropped off by gun to the FFL here, he handles the shipment back to Davidson's, and a replacement gun is shipped immediately. I get it next Monday. 3 day turnaround. Of coursed this works out because they had more of the same model in stock.

The scary part is: what if the new one has the same defect? How did that notch get machined in the wrong place? If the replacement has the same problem, then I will have to take it up with Colt directly. This is why I would like to know if anyone else has had that problem.

Apart from that misplaced notch, they only design features that I don't care for in the new XSE is the very sharp edges around the front of the slide and the frame, and the peculiar low, beavertail grip safety. If you look at Colt's website, some guns have this type and some have a very nicely upswept beavertail, and of course some have the standard grip safety.

[Rio Vista Slim]

gscrasher,
Although I own the lightweight version of the same pistol, I can safely compare mine to yours, since the most distinctive difference is frame material.

First off, the grip safety on the XSE models has gotten a lot of press in this forum, both bad and good. I don't mind the duck-tail (duck-bill) safety, nor its appearance, but many here disagree. I respect their right to do so.

The glaringly bad problem that you experienced with the pistol that you sent back is the first of its kind that I've heard about. I have had no problems with mine, nor do I recall anyone else stating those difficulties. Hopefully, your new pistol will be as it should be, and you will have no further problems of that nature.

I am confident that your new pistol will meet with your over-all satisfaction. The sharp edges that you mention have not presented me with any problems, but if those are bothering you, I can understand your feelings. Most of the XSE-type pistols that I've seen on the forum have the duck-tail grip safety, and I am not aware of a design change coming from Colt, at least before the start of a new production year.

One question:
Had you possibly considered a model 04691 when looking at Colt Commander pistols? That model is a classically designed weapon, with the newer 3-dot combat sights for better visibility, no forward cocking serrations, and the standard 19 line, vertical, rear cocking serrations found on the Government Model. It has an all steel frame, the Series 80 firing pin safety (as does the XSE), and is a "honey" of a 1911 Commander.

Just some additional food for thought! :D

[Hunter]

That sounds like a problem one would have with a shock buff installed but as you said it was new. I am sorry to hear of your trouble but I am glad it is being taken care of.

[John]

What I do not understand is how the position of the slide stop notch on the slide, was making your slide lock back prematurely. Most probably your slide stop extension, inside the frame was a bit on the long side and it was touching the rounds. Something easily solved with some minor filing.

[44 Man]

And may I recommend a Wilson 'drop in' grip safety. There is some fitting for the length of the trigger stop, but that is easily done. I too do not care for the Colt 'duckbill' safety, too much downsweep for my taste. I do wish Colt would make an arrangement with Wilson to provide that safety! Here's the one on my Commander. 44 Man
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/clare44man/WilsonSafety.jpg

[paul45]

The scary part is: what if the new one has the same defect? How did that notch get machined in the wrong place?Rio and John make valid and friendly points. I do not deny that you are experiencing difficulties. It is very few and far between that one hears of problems with XSE's, but it doesn't mean you don't have one. At the risk of starting an arguement, I take issue with your method of determing what your issue is....meaning you use a plastic ruler and measure a distance. I'm sorry...that don't cut it for me. You and I are not gunsmiths and the ruler has not solved any problem. Actually, slide lock back sounds like a mag or slide stop issue to me.....but I am not a gunsmith. Here is my point....you certainly had the right to utilize the Davidson's option of sending the Colt back....but to announce that you know the source of your issues and now are afraid of the replacement having the same "defect" is very incorrect to do in my mind. Since you did not send the piece back to Colt (which is fine)....you are only guessing at any issues....but stating that guess as fact on the Error-net is wrong. That said...I hope your new piece is issue free! Good Luck to you...

[gscrasher]

Got my replacement gun this morning! Thanks for your comments and suggestions, I appreciate them all. Now let me see if I can get this straightened out. It was a real defect.

Rio Vista Slim: the safety is only an issue for those who use the thumb over safety hold, and 44man has the solution to that, just put in a Wilson style. Yes I wrestled with which one to go with, and the blue straight up model 1991 is a beaut. What the heck, is 2 Commanders too many?

Hunter: That does seem to be what it acted like, I haven’t tried to reproduce the behavior on my new one by putting a couple shock buffs.

John: as I hope to show below, the notch actually was in the wrong position. The notch on the new pistol is in fact in a different place.

Paul45: This morning I’m using a metal ruler. The dimensions we are talking about are so large that it isn’t necessary to mic them.

I think an important part of a forum composed of devotees of a subject is to share information and discoveries.

The first thing I did with my new pistol was to check the operation of the slide stop.

http://billo.smugmug.com/photos/117144081-M.jpg

As the picture shows when the slide is fully to the rear, the notch is past the slide stop, i.e. further to the rear than the slide stop. This is the way it is supposed to work. Check out your own pistols to see that this is correct. The second picture shows the way the original pistol worked. When the slide was fully to the rear, the notch sat over the top of the slide stop, just barely catching it and pushing it down. Not much room for mechanical variation during the shot cycle here.

http://billo.smugmug.com/photos/117144443-M.jpg


Now to the dimensional business. I first learned that the distance from the rear of the slide to the notch is NOT the same on full-size versus commanders. My bad, comparing apples to oranges. But, the distance between the notches on the two different commanders and the rear of the slides IS different.

http://billo.smugmug.com/photos/117143826-L.jpg

From the pictures it is easy to see that when the slide lock notch is positioned too far from the back end of the slide, the notch won’t go past the slide lock as any working pistol does. The actual measurement for the new gun is 95 mm from rear to notch, while on the first pistol that distance was 98 mm. The top of the part of the slide stop that fits up into the notch is about 4 mm wide. Therefore, one can see that if there is a positioning error of 3 mm or so, things might just be on the ragged edge. Not good enough for an obvious carry gun.

I know that this has been very long, but my purpose was to show something that effects the operation of our favorite pistol that I have never run across before. And don’t worry I still love Colt’s! They are, however, just machines made by the hand of man, and therefore are subject to deviations from perfection. This has been a learning experience for me, and I hope that it was something new for a few of you also. I’m leaving for the range right now. I’ll post the results when I get back.

[John]

As long as the notch leaves the slide stop free to move up, it is OK. Those 3mm of difference didn't play any role in your problem, the slide stop could still move up. As long as the slide stop can move down (out of the slide stop notch) when you pull the slide to the rear, the slide stop should work normally.

The problem in your case was that your slide stop was contacting the rounds in the magazine. A little filing on the inside of the slide stop would have cured your problem.

[gscrasher]

Put 130 rounds through the replacement commander and it worked flawlessly. The slide does not spontaneously lock back while shooting as the first gun did.

John, I apologize for not making myself clear, the original problem was that the slide stop did not go down when the slide was pulled fully to the rear.