Colt 1911A1 National Match .45 ACP

[kenc9]

A Colt National Match with a 3 digit serial number original condition in commercial blue. What year would you expect this to be? 1957?

I can't seem to locate that serial number range for a National Match.

I'll have pics tonight of it.

Thanks, Ken

[Joni Lynn]

A Gold Cup National Match like yours would be 1957. Great gun!............
Now how about some pics!
:wl:
It's 45 right? The 38 Midrange would be a bit newer than that.

[kenc9]

I know, I hate talking about a nice pistol and not seeing the pics at the same time. I will tantalize you with a description "Mint Condition" :)

Tonight, I'll bet you have heard that before...haha

Now a technical question about this year.
Were the slides lightened to the point they were weakened? Or is that just rumor?

PS Didn't see this question hidden behind the signs :) Yes .45


-ken

[Joni Lynn]

Yes, the slides are lighter, both in the front part and the rear part. A steady diet of hardball might not be the best thing to feed it.

[Joni Lynn]

Yours has the funny shaped recoil spring plug with matching bushing?

[OD*]

Shouldn't a Gold Cup National Match have the NM suffix?

[Joni Lynn]

Yes it should. All of my 45's do.

[kenc9]

I am buying this Colt so I don't have it in my hands yet but hopefully by Xmas I may if all goes well. Here is what is being said about it.

He said it is not a GoldCup. The slide is stamped "National Match". The
frame is only bearing the 3-digit serial number. The Colt book said that
subsequent to the early manufactured National Match guns, the frames were
later given a prefix of NM, followed by the serial. Had this gun been in
the norm of the later production, it would have had a serial # of NM868.

Does this sound correct to anyone?


Thanks, Ken

[Joni Lynn]

If it has the Accro style adjustable rear sight and wide Gold Cup style trigger it's a Gold Cup National Match. There was an older model called the National Match. Looked more like a Gov't Model. There's some great pics of them on the forum here somewhere.
My early guns have an NM in the serial number.

[Hunter]

Here is a pretty good link that may help.
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm

[Joni Lynn]

I'm anxious to hear more of this gun. Please keep us informed.

[OD*]

I am buying this Colt so I don't have it in my hands yet but hopefully by Xmas I may if all goes well. Here is what is being said about it.

He said it is not a GoldCup. The slide is stamped "National Match". The
frame is only bearing the 3-digit serial number. The Colt book said that
subsequent to the early manufactured National Match guns, the frames were
later given a prefix of NM, followed by the serial. Had this gun been in
the norm of the later production, it would have had a serial # of NM868.

Does this sound correct to anyone?


Thanks, Ken
The National Match pistols were introduced in 1932, serial number range C161650 - C165130.

I don't believe the NMs ever had a NM prefix, early ones had the C prefix.

[kenc9]

The Postwar National Match

In 1957, Colt reintroduced a "National Match" pistol that had adjustable sights and trigger, and slanted slide serrations. It was officially designated the "Colt Gold Cup National Match," although "Gold Cup" wasn't added to the slide until 1970. These pistols are serial numbered 26-NM to 37025-NM.

http://www.coolgunsite.com/nm_comm/colt_nm.htm

I don't know if these guys know what they are talking about but thats what they say!

-ken

[OD*]

I don't know if these guys know what they are talking about but thats what they say!
That is correct, the NM at the end of the serial # is a suffix, there isn't any National Match's with a NM prefix (that I am aware of). Prior to the 1957 introduction of the GC National Match, they had the Commercial C as a prefix.

[dakota1911]

Hunter nailed the same link I was going to suggest.

[kenc9]

Ok I finally just now got the pics,
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/3A-1NationalMatch003.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/3A-1NationalMatch002.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/kenc9/1A-1NationalMatch005.jpg
Is this worth the 1200.00 plus DROS shipping and all?


Thanks, Ken

[Hunter]

Ken I think that it would be worth the $1200. From those pictures that is 1 fine looking Colt National Match.

[OD*]

Beautiful Ken!

I don't believe that price is out of line.

[kenc9]

Thanks, I am all ready an addict guys, don't lead me astray! Are you sure about the price? Because I have no idea on commercial Colts at all.


-ken

[Hunter]

As my friend OD would say you cannot pay too much for a Colt just too soon.

You have to keep in mind this is not just a Commercial Model but a National Match. You can go to gunbroker and check out other National Matches and see where yours falls.
That is from one addict to another. I love Colts and especially the Gold Cup National Matches.

[kenc9]

I have done that but nothing falls where this one is as far as i can see. Does this seem to be a no brainer or do I need to really want it to be worth it, I mean could I sell it in a heart beat if I wanted to unload it?

Who wants it if I pass HAHA?

I have to make my mind up by tomorrow. Where is the "RED HEAD" ? Joni???
:)

-ken

[Ericthenorse]

I happen to know someone right down the road from you that happens to be absolutely bonkers about National Match pistols (<< Jumps around waving hand wildly.....) I will be sure to take good care of it.... Put me next in line....

$1200 is an EXCELENT price here in the PRK.... Other parts of the country it might just be resonable. Since we are limited to what is already here and can't bring anything cool into the state, prices are usually a bit higher..... If you come across any series 70 Gold Cup's let me know....

(click my little camera icon in the upper right of my post....)

[dakota1911]

Something about the picture you posted bothers me, but I can't nail it down exactly. Clawson's book on the Colt .45 says the first year of production of the National Match was 1957 (Production began in Sept. he says) and the serial number range was 26-NM to 2275-NM, so must have NM suffix. With a three digit serial number that would make this gun worth more than $1200 I think. Yet when did Colt put on the wide trigger and the Ellison rear site?

I used to shoot bullseye in the 70's when I was a young guy and a lot of the old guys of the day had old National Match guns. I seem to remember they did not have a flat top or wide trigger, but could be wrong, or they were older than 57. This also brings up another point. I bought my first 70s Gold Cup Natl. Match used and put 40K rounds through it. The second I bought new and put 50K rounds through it. They looked great when I sold them because they went to the range and back in a padded pistol box, not a holster.

I guess what I am saying is you could have stumbled on a great find but I hope the deal will allow you to send it back once you get it if something is wrong. I would have it checked out by a good Gunsmith after I got it.

[Ericthenorse]

Your buddies probably had the earlier pre war national match pistols..... The ones with the wide trigger and rib on top of the slide were the 1957 and up Gold Cup National Match pistols, whitch differ a great deal from the early pistols.... Even though the pre series 70 pistols were officially Gold Cup's, the only place you would find it written is on the box...

As far as price goes, The 57-69 pistols don't seem to be worth as much as the older military pistols, or the series 70 cup's because of their reputation for being just tareget guns that won't handle standard loads....At least here in CA...

This is a shot of a 1936 National Match pistol.....Note commercial serial number....
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/ericthenorse/976664408-1.jpg

[jeff1124]

They're both fine looking pictures of beautiful Colts! I don't know personally if the price is right but for the year and the shape of the pistol I'd say it can't be too far off. Try the blue book of gun values, maybe some info there on cost!

[Joni Lynn]

That's a good price. For one in that shape if you don't jump on the deal someone else will.

[JC1268]

Man those are some beautiful pistols. Jc :)

[Ericthenorse]

Jump....... :d :d

[Poohgyrr]

Wow, am I glad I found this thread, and the link too. Trying to find out about a series 70 GCNM that I hope will be available to me sometime... I better behave myself and live a good life...... That would be soooo nice......

[Ken]

I found my father's Colt 1911 and was looking for some help in the research. It is a National Match SN 22XXX-NM. Is there a way to find out what year it was made? Also I want to find any instructions I can for it. I do not yet have any pics online. I will soon though.

[Joni Lynn]

22xxxNM would be 1967.

[bigwagon]

Speaking of pre-70 National Match Gold Cup serial numbers, mine is numbered 18XXX-NM, which dates it to sometime in 1966, but the original serial-numbered test target that came with it is dated April 7, 1967. Seems like a long time between when it "should" have been made and when it most likely left the factory.

[Joni Lynn]

Yours probably came with an Elliason rear sight didn't it?
Mine are older and came with the Accro style sight which I changed out for shooting purposes for an Elliason. (I kept the Accro's though)

[bigwagon]

Yes, it has an Elliason rear.

[OD*]

Seems like a long time between when it "should" have been made and when it most likely left the factory.
Something that should be remembered is, serial numbers don't really tell us a great deal anyway, just when that particular receiver was given its number. They didn't have the "Just In Time" programs back in the day, receivers, barrels, etc., could set in "part bins" for years.

Case in point, the first 32 Winchester Special, Model 1894 was built on March 4, 1902, but the receiver dates to 1895 (#27,158) and some have been noted with serials as low as in the 15,500 range. Same was true of Tom Horn's Winchester, built on an 1897 receiver (#82,667) but warehoused on March 22nd, 1900 and shipped on June 19th, 1900. Guns could set on the factory floor and or in the warehouse for a long time too.

As to Colt's, there are documented SAAs from the original production run, with shipping dates of 1948, 1955, 1958, 1965 and 1966. But the best is, the last 27 first generations (1873-1940) were shipped October 3rd, 1972. I think the closest we can come to dating, is with warehousing and shipping records.

[Elmo C]

That was a great piece of information about serial#s. Every time i come too this site i learn something about Colts and firearms in general.

[bigwagon]

Yeah, it really was. I guess my NM wasn't sitting around all that long in the grand scheme of things. :)

[OD*]

;)

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[kjk200]

Yours probably came with an Elliason rear sight didn't it?
Mine are older and came with the Accro style sight which I changed out for shooting purposes for an Elliason. (I kept the Accro's though)

What is the differance between the accro and the elliason? and how do you tell the differance?

[Hunter]

The Accro rear sight has a separate blade that moves with the adjustment.
The Elliason has a cleaner look.

[Joni Lynn]

http://www.championgunsights.com/proddetail.asp?prod=860%2D301
The Elliason looks like this, the Acro looks somewhat more like the current Ruger sight with the small or thin blade that rides inside the housing of the sight itself and is moved by a screw that pushes it against a spring for adjustment.