Barrel Insult and Injury

[Lazarus]

Having come part way along the path of assembling a working gun, it is amazing how many interesting details become noticeable - all of a sudden. Specifically I have examined the fitting work done by custom smiths on full house custom guns, looking for clues to getting a proper barrel fit. Whilst doing so, I came across this little gem - I'll try to post a photo soon.

My Bar-Sto MT barrel was fit to the Vermont Style slide using the barrel's locking lugs themselves, instead of the lug recesses. :confused: :nono: :mad:

For a drawing, please refer to Kuhnhausen II, page 130 (in my edition) which shows a Brownells lug file and the barrel lug recesses it is designed to adjust. My barrel's hood was lowered vertically, as were the other 2 positive lug surfaces. The barrel's lug recesses were untouched. I can't believe my eyes on that one. The gun shoots and the slide lug surfaces show battering brought on by how the barrel was fit. Isn't that just great? Another charlatan posing as a gunsmith. :scared:

But hey, I'm not in the Guild. Maybe this is a secret military "hard fit" technique. I'm thinking it really WAS pretty hard to fit this way. Anyone else noted this technique in their custom blasters? Is it just me? Picky, picky!!

-Lazarus

[Iron bottom]

I don't quite understand. Are you saying the lug recesses in the slide were shallow and the top barrel lugs bottomed out in the slide before the firing pin port aligned with the bore? Or was this done to get some clearence between the barrel and slide when the barrel dropped out of battery?

I do, however, understand what you are talking about. I have one that I am afraid to examine.

[Spindly61]

WOW. They made that file so it wouldn't touch the lugs,just the recesses. How bad is the slide? Sorry to hear this.

[Canuck-IL]

My barrel's hood was lowered vertically, as were the other 2 positive lug surfaces. The barrel's lug recesses were untouched.
OK, I'm lost...are you saying, in essence, that the entire top of the barrel from the last lug to the end of the hood was shaved to get it to clear the slide upon linkdown? And the lug recessess were just left to be whatever they were? Please elaborate...
/Bryan

[Lazarus]

Folks, it is exactly what I said. Those squiggly things on the top of the barrel are not all the same. The ones that stick up are supposed to stay that way. The ones that are recessed can be filed on for barrel fitting. Sure, I don't know everything. Certainly one could say maybe I don't know anything. But, the laugh is on me for trusting the fancy name on the door.

Here's a couple shots of the barrel. Notice that there appear to be file marks that have been buffed up on the (+) locking lugs. Wouldn't want to have those unsightly file marks spoil a good barrel, right?

Secret Barrel "Hard-Fit" Method (http://www.eskimo.com/~parkerc/Barrel1.jpg)

There are flat spots all long the surface of the (+) lugs, almost like a clock, one at every hour.

Barrel Fitting - How NOT to do it. (http://www.eskimo.com/~parkerc/Barrel2.jpg)
Notice that in the previous pictures, the barrel recesses - you know, the ones that we mortals use for fitting the barrel - remain untouched. They still have the grey sandblast finish that they received at the factory. Gee, how did the rest of the barrel get shiny? The answer is a buffing wheel, and it does not belong to me!

Now the slide: notice how the irregular pattern of flats and rounds have worn a similar pattern into the slide. Why wouldn't they?

Vermont Slide - Not the slide's Fault (http://www.eskimo.com/~parkerc/Slide1.jpg)

Another slide photo:
OUCH! (http://www.eskimo.com/~parkerc/Slide2.jpg)

I'll take this whole thing as a learning opportunity. This one cost me plenty.

-Lazarus

[Iron bottom]

Have mercy, Lazarus. Bet the guy that did that no longer works there. ;)

[Nitrox]

Those flat spots are just sand cuts.

[Spindly61]

I'm getting ready to fit my first barrel as soon as it arrives. I have been paying close attention to all barrel fitting threads. It's been 12 weeks so far and it NEVER occured to me to try it that way. Between here and Kuhnhausen I feel pretty confident.
I'm sorry to see what was done and appreciate you posting what you found.
Are they both scrap? Can the slide be salvaged?

[Lazarus]

Rich, I think the slide can be saved. I'll smooth it out just a little and save the barrel for a souvenir. When your new barrel arrives, shoot me a p.m. as I have a few thoughts on fitting that you might find helpful.

-L

[Lubaloy]

Laz,
Your pics of the barrel are not really clear. Are we just looking at scuffing? If much material had been removed from the top of the barrel, the engraving would be missing.
If the hood area looked like that when you got it back, wouldn't you have noticed?
Perhaps insufficient clearance between slide and unlocked barrel just scuffed both up?
What depth are the locking grooves on top of the barrel? I think Barsto runs the front one about .045 and the rear a bit shallower.

[Jerry Keefer]

But hey, I'm not in the Guild. -Lazarus[/QUOTE]

Lazarus;

This leads me to believe that a Guild member is at fault. If so, it is Guild policy that a legitmate grievance be addressed with customer satisfaction a priority. If inferior workmanship shipped with out his knowledge, I am sure he would like to be made aware. Guild quide lines are very strict. You may wish to go to www.americanpistol.com for further info..

Thank you

Jerry Keefer

[Spindly61]

Rich, I think the slide can be saved. I'll smooth it out just a little and save the barrel for a souvenir. When your new barrel arrives, shoot me a p.m. as I have a few thoughts on fitting that you might find helpful.
Thanks Laz. I appreciate it. It is not a hard fit barrel(NM)
but I expect to go over the whole thing. I've bought all the tools. I will shoot you a P.M. when it arrives.

[Lazarus]

Rich, I think you will do fine with your barrel. A couple of things dawned on me when I was fitting mine... and be sure to have your "sloppy fit" bushing for the fitting job.

I admit that the photos of the barrel are not the best. But the point is this:
The barrel's lug recesses are the surfaces that are used to adjust vertical lockup. The actual lugs themselves, which I am calling the (+) surfaces, the ones that are standing up, are NOT used for filing, sanding or otherwise adjusting of the barrel fit. So, for those who have not seriously thought about how a barrel is actually fit into a slide...for those who do not contemplate ever doing this work...I don't blame you for not seeing anything unusual in the photos. I did not look critically at these parts for several years, even though I had the gun apart for cleaning many times.

That's one of the amazing things that happens when you trust the skill of others. I was just not "looking" at the work until now. I'm not saying that this level of incompetence is the norm amongst custom smiths. I really hope not, anyway.

But, correct 1911 fit and function must also take a back seat to the parts industry. It seems everyone has their private and differing idea of what dimensions are correct. Or maybe they simply take advantage of the confusion to claim that anything they make is "within spec". Give me a break, Vermont! :( But that's another story.

-Lazarus

[Paratus]

Looks like your biggest problem was not enough barrel drop clearance, this over time will cause battering of the lugs and the scuffing on the hood.