Titanium firing pin in leiu of Swartz safety

[LDM]

Regardless of which side we each may hold as to the advisability of removal of Swartz safety parts, the sheer volume of times folks bring the topic up is enough indication that it is a real concern.
Also, the observations by folks that removal may result in civil liability cannot be ignored.
Therefore, my question to the folks on this forum that know way more than I do is the following:
If a person wanted to remove, or had removed, the Swartz parts...how would you effectively substitute the firing pin safety function with Titanium firing pin and proper spring arrangement? For instance, what spring arrangement do the semi-custom folks like Wilson, Brown, etc. use to pass California tests? I have read that the Springfield arrangement relies in part on a higher than normal mainspring, although that does not seem an optimal replacement solution. Assuming a "normal" mainspring, say 21# or 23#, what firing pin spring with a titanium firing pin would actually work to prevent accidental discharge?...obviously without causing other ignition probelms.
I am curious about this and I bet a lot of other folks would be too.
Thanks in advance to all.

[Hawkmoon]

You may be dealing with a mixed metaphor. A lightweight firing pin, combined with either a normal firing pin (not main) spring or an extra-power firing pin spring, will not fully replace a firing pin safety as a means of preventing various types of accidental/negligent discharges. What the lightweight pin does is make it possible (or easier) to pass the California drop test. However ... dropping a 1911 directly on the end of the muzzle is not likely the most common mode of accidental/negligent discharge.

The concerns about potential legal problems if you remove or disable a firing pin safety stem more from wishing to avoid the hassle rather than a real fear of being convicted (or found liable, in the case of a civil suit). There do not seem to be many cases in which someone has actually been convicted in criminal court or found liable in civil court because of having disabled a firing pin safety.

But that doesn't mean you can't be charged or sued, and have to defend yourself. And the fact is, even if you go to the trouble of substituting a lightweight firing pin and an extra-strength firing pin spring -- a zealous attorney can charge or sue you on the basis that you removed a manufacturer's safety device anyway, and you still have to defend yourself.

[LDM]

Hawkmoon, point well made that TI firing pin arrangement does not completely substitute the full range of protection of Swartz (or Series 80) safety. It doesn't, and that's a fact.
However, acknowledging that point, protection against a discharge from dropping and firing pin inertia does have a value unto itself. How much is debatable.
Also acknowledge that even a partial substitute of a safety device cannot insure against a lawsuit. My personal belief is even with the most clear-cut, righteous shooting a civil law suit is a probablitity in this day and time.
But every little bit helps.
We're talking about a $25-$30 solution. Is it worth it? Can argue that til the cows come home.
But the question posed is: If some one wants to do, even to a Series 70, how best to do it?

[wichaka]

I still lean more toward "intent"

If it wasn't intentional, then we have a problem..........

[Ericthenorse]

The ONLY way to insure against law suit is to not buy the gun to begin with... If a lawyer really wants to get you, they will...

[tombstone]

Comments from a Convert....I once removed my Series 80 parts (frame and slide) from a NRM Colt Commander in an effort to reduce the trigger a little and make it easier to disassemble/reassemble. What I found surprised me; the difference before and after was insignificant...less than 1/2 pound with no other change in "feel" or function. So, I have put them back in. I know that the likelihood of litigation is small, but it is still finite, and the benefit of removal just isn't there. I still have a smooth, reliable, 4 lb trigger with the Series 80 parts installed, and that's plenty good enough! So, my experience is that this conversion is unnecessary. Colt got it right!

[LDM]

wichaka- concur on your concept of "intent"
Ericthenorse- concur on your concept of lawyers...BTW have exc. collection of lawyer jokes
But back to point...and maybe I can re-phrase this to help.
Let's say the problem is concern over accidental discharge, precisely from dropping and firing pin inertia. The particular weapon could be a Series 70 as easily as another. And let's say it is set up to typical specs (23# mainspring). And a TI firing pin and appropriate springs are the means at hand.
Now...
What specific setup of TI pin and spring combination is used by semi-custom folks, like Wilson, etc., to pass the Califormia drop tests?
Anyone know?
If you were doing this, what would you do?
I have exchanged messages with guys that have replaced a steel FP with TI pin with no problem. But I am interested in tapping into the wealth of knowledge I know is on this forum to dig deeper. If nothing else it may be an interesting technical discussion.
All comments appreciated and respected.
All info appreciated.
Thanks

[wichaka]

You can use a regular steel firing pin with what they call an "extra power" firing pin spring and put that problem to bed once and for all.

No need for a Ti pin.........

Springfield comes with Ti pins, and their 28lb main spring in the ILS to get reliable ignition.

I've changed many out with 23lb springs, left the Ti pin and stock spring, and have yet to have any problems with it.

So if you're still worried, I would obtain a Ti pin from Wilson or the like and install a Wolff or the like extra power firing pin spring and be done with it.

[Hawkmoon]

You can use a regular steel firing pin with what they call an "extra power" firing pin spring and put that problem to bed once and for all.

No need for a Ti pin.........

Springfield comes with Ti pins, and their 28lb main spring in the ILS to get reliable ignition.

I've changed many out with 23lb springs, left the Ti pin and stock spring, and have yet to have any problems with it.

So if you're still worried, I would obtain a Ti pin from Wilson or the like and install a Wolff or the like extra power firing pin spring and be done with it.
What he said ^^^

[pa_guns]

Hi

We may have confusion over two different springs here.

With a standard weight mainspring driving the hammer either a Titanium firing pin with a "normal" firing pin spring -or- a steel firing pin with a "extra strength" firing pin spring will do a pretty good job.

Both setups work fine with a normal mainspring.

Bob

[YOPD]

Ti is not as strong as tool steel. Even if I lived in Lawyerville, USA, I'd replace a Ti FP with a tool steel FP and appropriate spring.

Oh, and howdy, everybody! First post!

[pa_guns]

Hi

The firing pin is kind of an odd part. I suspect you could make it out of wood and it might be strong enough to do the job. The only problem would be that the end is going to mash over pretty fast. I'm not sure it would have enough inertia when hit by a standard speed hammer though ...

Bob