1911A1 History Search

[MontanaMike]

Hello all:

I am new to forums but will give this a try. :cool: This website contains a lot of good information for a novice like myself. I am not a collector, but this appears to be the most appropriate forum for my question.

I have owned a 1911A1 for about 25 years, marked Serial No. 924xxx U.S. ARMY. The gun has the normal proof marks for a Colt-manufactured gun, plus some additional marks. The serial number indicates the gun was originally Parkerized, it is now blued (black) with bluing over some minor pits that were not buffed out of the slide when the gun was polished for bluing. The gun is retrofitted with a National Match barrel and bushing with matching serial numbers, but the receiver is not National Match, nor is the hammer an original A1 hammer.

One of the unknown (to me) marks is apparently a British crown over the letters BNP which I have been told means "British Nitro Proof" This is stamped on the right side of the receiver behind the slide stop pin. Another unidentified and partially obscured stamp, apparently of British(?) origin is in front of the slide stop pin.

Below the inspector's initials (GHD) on the left side is what appears to be the remains of a recumbant oval around a "V".

My guess is this gun was sent to Great Britan during the war and somehow ended up back in the U.S. Along the way, it was reblued and fitted with a NM barrel and bushing. It is very tight and shoots tight groups. :) Although the modifications have undoubtedly eliminated any significant collector value, I would like to learn more about the history indicated by the proof marks.

Does anyone have any idea what these marks might mean? :confused: I can send an e-mail with attachments showing the above marks.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Best regards,

MontanaMike

[John Holbrook]

Mike, if the marks are like this, your Colt was one of 1,515 sent to Canada. After the war, they were purchased by a British arms dealer and shipped to the UK where they were prooved under the British commercial proof laws.The mark you describe is the Canadian broad arrow "C " government ownership stamp. British weapons had just the broad arrow, and the Canadians surrounded the broad arrow with a "C".... The Colts were stamped on the frame and the rear of the slide as shown......

These Colts are very valuable in original condition. I have owned two over the years.

Hope this helps

http://www.fototime.com/{413CDE4D-DFE1-4C7D-98A1-8B4CA9EFCBEF}/picture.JPG

[MontanaMike]

John, Thank you for the fascinating information. The various proof marks are as you describe with the exception that the Canadian proof is not on the slide, although the British mark is.

I have never been much of a collector of anything, but posted my inquiry on the spur of the moment after stumbling across this web site. I was born in 1945 and grew up at a time when M1911's, Springfields, etc. were sought for their value as shooters and hunting guns. I still tend to regard them that way and hunt with an 1896 30-40 Craig, several Springfields, and a fine old 1886 Winchester and never thought much about their value as "collectable" guns. This search for the history of my 1911A1 has been somewhat of an eye-opener to me and has given me a better sense of the value of these guns as historical items. I have always felt some connection to the past using all of the above guns, but this search revealed a whole new aspect of that. This forum is an absolute wealth of information for someone like me.

If you (or someone) can tell me how to add digital pictures to these messages, I can post some pictures of the various proof marks, otherwise I will send them to you as attachments to an e-mail.

Thanks again for the info.

Mike K

[John]

Mike,

Find the FAQ link, near the top and read the part on posting pictures. In short, you have to upload your pictures in a picture-hosting server, like www.photobucket.com and then add the link to that picture in your post here.

Rgds

[MontanaMike]

John,

The following picture shows what appears to be the Canadian proof on the frame right below the Army inspectors initials.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/MontanaMike/UnknownMark1.jpg

The next photo shows the British proofs on the frame and slide. Since our last message, I looked under the firing pin striker plate and found that the slide number does not match the frame. Evidently the slide was replaced after the Canadian proof, which is not present on the slide, and before the British proofs, which are. It also looks like the rebluing was afte the British proofs to my uneducated eye. Who knows at what point the National Match barrel and bushing were added, but probably in conjunction with the blue job. Again, who knows how the gun got back to the U.S. and Montana from the UK.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/MontanaMike/BritishNitroProof.jpg

The last photo shows a detail of the unidentified mark forward of the slide stop pin. I suspect it must be some type of Canadian unit designation, added before the gun "went civilian".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/MontanaMike/BritishNitroProof2.jpg

If anyone can identify the last proof mark, as much of the history of this gun as I am likely to get will be complete. :)

Again, thanks for the great help on my questions.

Mike K