Commander - Colt vs. Kimber

[Love.45's]

I am looking for a commander size pistol in .45 and am looking at the the Kimber Pro CDP II versus one of the new Colt Commander model O4691.

This will be a carry pistol and would be satisfied with the features found on the standard Colt. The Kimber is obviously a well made pistol with nice features but I am not sure it is worth the premium price over the cost of the Colt.

I am wary of buying a Colt having heard the quality is not as good as it used to be. Does anyone have any experience with a new Colt?

I see also that Springfield is making a Commander in their US GI line, anyone have any experience with those?

Any input from the group would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Nikolai]

I am looking for a commander size pistol in .45 and am looking at the the Kimber Pro CDP II versus one of the new Colt Commander model O4691.

This will be a carry pistol and would be satisfied with the features found on the standard Colt. The Kimber is obviously a well made pistol with nice features but I am not sure it is worth the premium price over the cost of the Colt.

I am wary of buying a Colt having heard the quality is not as good as it used to be. Does anyone have any experience with a new Colt?

I see also that Springfield is making a Commander in their US GI line, anyone have any experience with those?

Any input from the group would be appreciated.

Thanks.

To some it appears Kimber's quality isn't what it used to be as well. Since it will be a carry gun, you most likely won't want the extra features, and since you're satisfied for what is included on the Colt, then what makes the additional features worthy? No need to spend the extra money for, in your own description, 'extra' parts, IMO. Personally, I don't like how Colt's are coming out of the factory these days. Poorly put together, shady quality in the dozen examples I've had my hands on this past year, and that comes at a PREMIUM price. I held no new Colt's this past year with a sticker less than $975. For that price you could get a much more refined pistol with the same features, or more if preferred. Springfield Armory has always been known for 'bare bones, no nonsense' business 1911s that get the job done at a good cost. They're also backed with, arguably, the best warranty from a mass production 1911 manufacturer.

It's more a reflection on what you personally regard as 'necessity' in your carry gun, and how much you're willing to pay for that. If Kimber, Springfield Armory, Colt, Smith & Wesson, etc,. etc,. suit your needs and your wallet, then it's up to how they respond to your hands and your peace of mind. Isn't that what it's all about?

-Nikolai

[Chuck S]

The Kimber CDP Compact is a reliable pistol in my experience. This is slightly smaller than a Commander as it has a 4" (vs. 4.25") bbl and the smaller Officer ACP frame. I recently sold mine for reasons unrelated to reliability.

I have three (3) Commander sized pistols and prefer this size. Full sized magazines and a bit handier barrel length than the Government Model.

1967 Colt's Commander. This has an alloy frame. This pistol was presented to me new and has been around the world with me. Carried but not a lot of rounds thru her. Surprisingly little holster wear. The horrible sights vs. sentimental value have kept me from modifying her although I did have a drop in beavertail grip safety on her for several years.

2004 Para Ordnance LTC. This also has an alloy frame 4-1/4" bbl and is the direct replacement for the Commander. Para ramped barrel and PXT extractor were the primary reasons for this pistol. Light, reliable, and inexpensive. A few dollars in back parts to de-Kimberize her.

2004 Ed Brown Kobra Carry. This is my 4-1/4" bbl primary CHL weapon. All stainless steel, so she's heavier but has no corrosion or rust issues. There's also a bit (OK, a lot) of vanity in this pistol (like a Lincoln Aviator vs. an Explorer!), but she's been dead accurate and 100% reliable since she came out of the bag (no box with these).

Pay your money and take your choices! Para and Colt's have all stainless models now. If anyone ever comes up with a natural anodized alloy frame and stainless slide it could become my lightweight carry pistol.

-- Chuck

[Wes Janson]

Honestly I'm looking at a compact or subcompact Kimber as well, and something I keep hearing about is that reliability problems increase the smaller you go. As well as springs wearing out far faster. Does anyone have any experience with these problems?

[Chuck S]

Kimber owners manual says to change the recoil spring on the Compact (AKA Commander) every 800 rounds and the 3" bbl Ultra every 1800 rounds. So with Kimber the little pistol has longer spring life.

-- Chuck

[swampertwo]

Love, you might also look at the S&W 1911sc--scandium framed commander sized pistol and the Para LTC (either steel or alloy frame)commander sized also.
Jeff

[JohnV]

I have sold my Kimber Pro II SS TLE/RL. The ejection problems were never solved. It now has a home with a SOG friend who likes "the challange" of working on the trouble. I have seen several complaints on the Kimber site on these pages. I don't know if I got a troubled weapon or not. After three trips to the factory and 2000+ rds, it still was not reliable.

My Colt Combat Commander has the reliability I need for my CCW. I also shoot a Gold Cup Trophy and find the same reliability. I would not hesitate to own another Kimber. Just not in the bull barrel stuff...JV.

[jerryd]

I have a pro cdp and love it,have over 4400 rds no trbls mechanicaly,just my lead swc. Try to find one with the internal extractor the newer ones have the external extractor and i think thats what the problem is,have fun shooting whatever you get. Another difference btwn the colt and kimber is cdp has the melt treatment where as the colt doesnt! My combat commander has some sharp edges where the cdp is smooth!

[Wes Janson]

I wonder what the deal with the external extractor is, and if there's some way to get one that won't fail... I now have a vested interest in this, as I've gone ahead and am purchasing an Ultra RCP II. Hopefully it'll work out.

[Chuck S]

Here's a photo of the Kimber Ultra external extractor.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/220147.jpg

Oh, yeah, that's a Failure to Extract shown in the photo as well. An all too common event with this pistol which took two trips to Kimber and still wasn't fixed until they sent me a replacement extractor.

Failure to Extract locks the pistol solid. Be sure you have magazines with a lip extending beyond the front strap as you have to rip the mag out to cure the stoppage.

Good luck!

-- Chuck

[Wes Janson]

So when it's had a FTE like shown in the picture, you can't get the slide to move at all? Have you tried tugging the fired case out using pliars or something similar?

[Nikolai]

Regarding Kimber's external extractors, they have several 'revamped designs' out now, with the latest appearing to cure the problems the previous designs created.

Good news for externally extracted Kimber owners. Contact the Kimber service dept. and request one.

[Cameron]

Carefully consider a Colt if you can find one.

I purchased a Colt's Commander Model several months ago that has been amazingly accurate and reliable. Don't believe the hype look at the pistols for yourself. I paid $599 for my Commander and $549 for my Government. Each have nearly 5000 rounds without a single failure to feed or extract.

1991 Colt's Commander Model
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/cameronpersonal/Colt/ColtsCommanderModel.jpg

1991 Colt's Government Model
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/cameronpersonal/Colt/ColtsGovernmentModel.jpg

I put a Wilson 'drop-in' beavertail on the Commander and I carry it all day everyday...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/cameronpersonal/Colt/ColtsRightNOSNsmall.jpg


Regards,
Cameron

[OD*]

If anyone ever comes up with a natural anodized alloy frame and stainless slide it could become my lightweight carry pistol.

Colt did make them

http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FHandguns%2FSemi%2DAutos%2FCommander%2Ejpg

http://gunpix.com/gallery%2FHandguns%2FSemi%2DAutos%2FCommander2%2Ejpg

[Bruce Foreman]

I am wary of buying a Colt having heard the quality is not as good as it used to be. Does anyone have any experience with a new Colt?



.

I picked up a new Lightweight Commander at a gun show last Sept. Not a regular catalog item, this was a two tone gun. Black anodized aluminum frame with a stainless Combat Commander slide on it. Series 80, enhanced frame design with slight undercut on the front strap at the trigger guard, drop in beavertail, arched mainspring housing, and conventional recoil spring plug/guide rod setup.

Quality, fit and finish are excellent. Gun is more accurate than I can hold and function seems flawless. Slide to frame fit pretty solid with no real play and bushing & barrel fit gives solid lockup.

I do have to stop and clean/relube the barrel/bushing area at about the 80 round mark if I'm shooting this gun in IPSC matches, but the accuracy is worth it.

This may not have been a regular production gun, it may have come out of their custom shop but I'm happy with it.

Bruce Foreman

[cottontoptexan]

Nice pictures of the Colts. I have several 1911's and i love them. My 2 Colt MarkIV series 80 guns with 5 inch barrels never fail me. I also have a Kimber and got lucky for it is very reliable. It is the 4" Eclipse Pro II with the old internal extractor.
My latest is the Springfield Champion 4" Gi. It cost 388.00 plus tax out the door and has a ramped barrel , came with 3 Metal Form Mags and it shoots anything i put in it. Not sure if the 3 mags should have been in the box but they were. I ordered 4 more from SA with the coupon they sent in the box.
May sound like i am bragging but i won't have a gun in my cabinet that is unreliable. If it won't shoot and can't be fixed it's a gonner. I love Colts and you will hear much bashing about their quality but my experiences have not been negative but positive with the quality and lock up and accuracy. I mainly shoot 230 grain FMJ ammo and that is what these guns were designed to do. It is still a heck of a man-stopper and i would put my life on the 230. I think the basic John Browning design is still hard to beat. Much trouble i have seen is with the 3 inch guns. To me it is not enough mass there to make the gun function as it was designed. That is just my opinion on what i have been exposed to in my life. I like my Kimber but only my Colts have a permanent spot in the gun vault.

[dropd1us]

i say go for a colt, i favor my combat commander over all my other guns http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/dropd1us/coltcombatcommander8.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/dropd1us/coltcombatcommander2.jpg

[johnmac]

Does anyone have any more expewrience with the external extractors? I would have thought them a good idea as most other pistols seem to have them and work well. I am thinking about a kimber and other models withe the external.

What gives between the external and external reliability?

Thanks
John

[myanof]

I really don't know what's happening with 1911s these days. I had a Colt Stainless Series 80 Commander that I could never get consistatly reliable so I traded for a Kimber Custom for my son and a Custom II for me and they have both been highly reliable. With that said, I read about others who have had reliability issues with Kimbers and switch to Springfield of Colt. This crap never happened with the old Colt Series 70. Therefore I don't know what to recommend or buy anymore in 1911s. :confused:

[ctcsp846]

I have had both Colt Commander, including just recently a Gold Cup Commander, and both a Springfield and a Kimber. Kimber was flawless in performance but it showed a lot of finish wear in a relatively short time. Every Colt I have ever had needs what my gunsmith calls a reliability pack, basically going in and opening evrything up. Every Colt I have had this work done on has peformed without a failure afterwards. I live in Conn. and have had excellent service from Colt itself.

[myanof]

I have had both Colt Commander, including just recently a Gold Cup Commander, and both a Springfield and a Kimber. Kimber was flawless in performance but it showed a lot of finish wear in a relatively short time. Every Colt I have ever had needs what my gunsmith calls a reliability pack, basically going in and opening evrything up. Every Colt I have had this work done on has peformed without a failure afterwards. I live in Conn. and have had excellent service from Colt itself.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you have to pay for the reliabity pak? There are some things I miss about my stainless commander, like the super smooth finish, but I don't miss worrieng about reliability.

[ctcsp846]

I have it done by Josephs Custom Guns in New Britain Connecticut, they are the best I have ever dealt with when it comes to 1911's of any make. They get $80 to $100 dollars to go through the gun and tune it up, open everything up and make sure it works. I have never had a problem after they have worked on a gun. I actually brought them my Colt Defender series 90 because it would jam just short of going into battery, I brought it to other "Colt Guys" and they played with it and polished this and that and it still never worked. John at Josephs took one look at it and said the barrel locks were cut to much from the factory, which allows the barrel to float a little inside the frame and jam. Then they told me to take it back to Colt, and not pay them to fix it. Colt did replace the whole barrel, and all the springs while they had it, for free. So, I do have the phone number for Josephs somewhere, but its Josephs Gun in New Britain Connecticut.

[myanof]

I have it done by Josephs Custom Guns in New Britain Connecticut, they are the best I have ever dealt with when it comes to 1911's of any make. They get $80 to $100 dollars to go through the gun and tune it up, open everything up and make sure it works. I have never had a problem after they have worked on a gun. I actually brought them my Colt Defender series 90 because it would jam just short of going into battery, I brought it to other "Colt Guys" and they played with it and polished this and that and it still never worked. John at Josephs took one look at it and said the barrel locks were cut to much from the factory, which allows the barrel to float a little inside the frame and jam. Then they told me to take it back to Colt, and not pay them to fix it. Colt did replace the whole barrel, and all the springs while they had it, for free. So, I do have the phone number for Josephs somewhere, but its Josephs Gun in New Britain Connecticut.

Sure wish I would have known about these guys before I got rid of my Colt Stainless Comander. Thanks for the info.

[ottobon100]

Kimber. I have a Pro Carry and love it. Unlike my brand new Colt it works each and every time I pull the trigger! It did so right out of the box. I didn't have to send it back or send it to a gunsmith to get it to work. The Colt is better looking though if you want to put a 1911 in a shadow box on a wall.

[SargeMO]

For me, the true Commander is the way to go. That extra quarter-inch of barrel/slide translates into a little more slide momentum, and cycle length. I have to think this is one reason why we see notably fewer malfs with the Commanders, than we do with the Officer-sized guns. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that a properly set-up Commander is every bit as reliable as the full-sized gun.