SW1911PC - bushing and sideplay

[Johnny Ringo]

Hello,

I have just disassembled my SW1911PC – The gun is new and hasn’t been shot so far!

The inside of the bushing is on one side partly rugged - feels like bubbles under a coat of paint or smeared lead. The barrel won’t go thru without pushing it lightly.

I this commonly so or does it has to be completely sleek?

Also I note a bit of a sideplay. Not much - maybe 0,1 mm (0.004 inch). Don’t get me wrong. It’s only because some people write here, that they notice no sideplay at all (?)

Best regards

[extremist]

That's just not right. My 3 PC1911s are perfect, bushing is butter smooth and tight and the slide/rail fit is very tight and smooth. Call them up and have them send you a prepaid to get it made right.

James

[Johnny Ringo]

Thank you for your reply James,

I will try to send some pictures to Smith & Wesson and we will see what they will say. - Unfortunately I am not a resident of the US. I do not know if they care to much about their oversea customers?

[Coolgun]

Johnny, I have not had a problem myself, so this is second hand information-take it with a grain of salt. I have heard many stories of S&W's customer service, it all I have heard is exemplary. Whether that applies to overseas customers, I couldn't guess, but I would think it probably does.

[Johnny Ringo]

Gentlemen,

I haven’t managed to contact Smith & Wesson yet, but finally came to dismantle the gun again and picture the corpus delicti.

The bubbles under paint-coat or smeard lead, like I described it first, are scuff marks.

Can you please take a look at it and tell me if you consider this to be normal or not. - Looks sorta nonprofessional to me (?)

Thank you in advance!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/dremeledDSC04078.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/dremeldDSC04076.jpg

[jaybo292]

Almost looks like the dreaded dremal tool got a hold of it. It doesn`t look normal to me. I`m no expert though.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The bushing in your picture has been hand fit to the barrel. The idea is that you want as tight a fit as you can get and still have the pistol function smoothly. Since the barrel swings as it locks and unlocks the hole on the inside of the bushing is a bit oval rather than circular.

Bob

[Baldy]

I got two Smiths and they don't look like that. I would call that a butcher job. I would send that back to Smith.

[pa_guns]

Hi

A light push is a very good description of a properly fit bushing. The only way to get one fit just right is to do a little hand work.

A standard bushing on a non-PC SW1911 is fit more loosely and is not hand ground to fit. The standard bushing looks better, but does not work as well.

Bob

[tglahn17]

Hi, Johnny Ringo,

The barrel bushing on my PC1911 looks exactly like yours. This is my first 1911, so I didn't know what to expect. This blemish inside the bushing certainly doesn't affect the accuracy or reliability, unless it enhances the accuracy and reliability. I've fired about 1,000 rounds in two months. I haven't had a single malfunction. The first 7-round group I fired made a single ragged hole about an inch across right on point of aim at 21'. I don't think I'll be sending this one back to Springfield (MA) for a fix. I would be really bummed if I had to part with this piece for any length of time. Good luck,

[John]

This blemish inside the bushing certainly doesn't affect the accuracy or reliability, unless it enhances the accuracy and reliability.

There is no way that this butcher job can enhance accuracy or reliability. The inside of the bushing is not the place to take a dremel to.

[Johnny Ringo]

Hello John,
have you experienced something else with the performance center models?


Hello Bob (pa_guns),
yes, I read about fitting by hand but I haven’t thought that they do it that way. I feared – when I saw it - that someone had a bad day when he took care of my bushing.

It’s like tglahn17 wrote: It’s my first 1911 and I did not know what to expect. Just want to make sure that I got what I have paid for.


Hello tglahn17,
I would appreciate if we could share our experiences. I have fired mine now for the first time. Exactly 150 times!
50 shots of Remmington FMJ 230 grains, 50 Magtech FMJ 230 grains and 50 FMSWC also in 230 grains. "Flawlessly so far!"
But now I have these ugly bashing marks on the chamber (the part of the barrel which is visible thru the ejection port).
Have you experienced the same?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/bashedDSC04057.jpg

Bob, or anyone else with experience, would you consider this to be normal wear?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/bashedDSC04065.jpg

Here are some more pictures tglahn17, can you please compare?

Is this unique?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/gapDSC04089.jpg


What does yours look like – any bashing marks here?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/bashedDSC04053.jpg


As you can see here, the gap between the slide and the frame on the right side is a bit wider, than the gap on the left side – don’t bother about the picture showing the gun to be not fully assembled. The deviation is also visible with all parts in place (fully assembled).
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/rightgapDSC04084.jpg

If you take a look at your gun, like shown in the picture, would you say that the gap between the left side of the slide and
left side of the frame and the gap between the right side of the slide and right side of the frame is equal?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/leftgapDSC04085.jpg

Finally:
If you cock the hammer and then squeeze the trigger – is there a bit of a play before it comes to the point where it breaks?
I don’t mean the breaking process itself. What I am trying to say is, that I have to pull the trigger a bit back – maybe 0.2 inches or
0,5 cm - to a point where it goes no further. From that point on – if I squeeze – it’ll break crystal clear.

That's it for now. Many questions.

Best regards

[John]

Hello John,
have you experienced something else with the performance center models?

I have no personal experience with S&W.

Marks on the chamber are more or less normal. I haven't seen one without them, or at least I do not remember seeing one without them.

What I would worry about are those marks in the slide locking lugs, unless they are not metal marks but dirt, which I do not think they are.

Finally, there should be some pre-travel in the trigger. I do not like a trigger which breaks without first travelling a short distance. There are triggers which allow you to correct this, if it bothers you.

[Johnny Ringo]

What I would worry about are those marks in the slide locking lugs, unless they are not metal marks but dirt, which I do not think they are.


You mean those marks encircled:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/bashedDSC04054.jpg

Yes these are bashing marks - they occured after firing the gun.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/DSC04049.jpg

So, these shouldn't appear (?)

How about those wear marks on the side of the slide?

Best regards

[John]

No, that's not what I am talking about. Look at the fourth picture, from the first post you entered. If you look at the first slide lug (near the ejection port), it is perfectly square. If you look at the second and the third one, you can see something that looks like a tiny weld line. Is that metal that has been pushed away from the edge of the lug? Or is it just dirt?

[Johnny Ringo]

I am not quite sure if I can follow you: You mean the slide lug?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/WhatJohnmeans.jpg

[John]

What I mean are those lines shown with the arrows.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/bashedDSC04053.jpg

[Johnny Ringo]

What I mean are those lines shown with the arrows.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/bashedDSC04053.jpg

Ah, okay! No, this is only dirt: Oil, powder, dust ...

[tglahn17]

There is no way that this butcher job can enhance accuracy or reliability. The inside of the bushing is not the place to take a dremel to.

Hi, John and Johnny Ringo,

First of all, I was making a grab for sarcasm. Apparently, I fell short, dashed upon the rocks. Johnny Ringo, I checked my PC1911 after looking at your pictures. I don't see any of those heavy wear marks on the chamber portion of my barrel or inside my slide. I do see now that the space between my frame dust cover and the front of the slide isn't quite the same on both sides. The left side fits looks a little tighter. That explains the scuff marks on the left side of the bottom of my slide, and none on the right side. I also see that slightly increased gap at the rear of the slide-to-frame fit compared with the frame rail fit you circled in one of your pictures. I'm not worried about mine since I don't detect any play in my slide-to-frame fit, and the accuracy is outstanding. Maybe I'm just a cheap date, but these little peccadilloes don't bother me in the least. My PC1911 is my favorite piece and so awesome to shoot. Every moment I'm not at the range with my PC1911 (like right now) is time lost to the eternal abyss of non-shooting. By the way, the box stock trigger on my PC1911 is sick. That little bit of take-up is fine, and combined with the precision of the break, it's almost like a two-stage trigger. Johnny Ringo, I would expect some wear marks on tightly fit steel parts moving against each other under violent force, but those marks on your chamber don't look like normal wear after a few hundred rounds. I'd contact Smith & Wesson. Good luck,

[Johnny Ringo]

... I would expect some wear marks on tightly fit steel parts moving against each other under violent force, but those marks on your chamber don't look like normal wear after a few hundred rounds. I'd contact Smith & Wesson. Good luck,

I wrote an E-Mail this afternoon. We'll see what the support will say - so stay tuned!


Which one is yours, tglahn17? Satin, duotone or the melonite one?

Can you post some pictures? Can you, can you ...

[tglahn17]

Hi, Johnny Ringo,

I have the satin stainless finish. I originally wanted the Melonite finish, but the prices I found for the Melonite were signifcantly more than for the satin or bright stainless finishes. At first, I was regretting not getting the Melonite, but I'll never be an extreme user so the Melonite would have been functionally unnecessary. Now I really like the idea of my PC1911 having no applied finish. Just pure steel, baby. I'm always impressed when I see Europeans owning handguns. I have the idea that only military and law enforcement in Europe are allowed to have handguns. (Maybe you're military or law enforcement?) I'll try to post pictures of my PC1911, but it'll take a while. I don't have a digital camera. I still use film! Good luck with Smith & Wesson. Later,

[Johnny Ringo]

... (Maybe you're military or law enforcement?) ...
No, tglahn17, nor military nor law enforcement - just an ordinary outlaw ;)

Yes, you are right, it's not that easy. German law is very restrictive when it comes to guns. Especially for civilians. Unless you are not a licensed hunter, a licensed shooter or licensed gun collector you are not allowed.

I am a licensed shooter. With that license I am allowed to buy (restricted to one year from day of issue) and possess (unlimited) but not to carry guns - except to the shooting gallery and on direct path back home. Where they have to be kept locked.

This license further is restricted to two short guns and three semi-automatic long guns. Fully automatic guns are not allowed at all. Lasers dito. Silencers under special circumstances – what means: As good as not allowed.

Ah, look at that: Isn't she lovely, isn't she wonderful ...
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/Johnny_Ringo_Album/MSW1911_SW170258.jpg

[pa_guns]

Hi

Very nice. Time to stock up on ammo and go to the range.

Bob

[tglahn17]

Hi, Johnny Ringo,

A Stevie Wonder fan! That's almost exactly like my PC1911. It's not completely exactly like mine because mine doesn't have the black finish on the trigger. My trigger looks like regular anodized aluminum. From the pictures you posted, it looks like maybe your trigger is like mine. Wow, that's pretty rough that you can have only two handguns. That'll force you to choose wisely. The PC1911 was a good choice. What's your other sidearm? One of my collection is the Steyr M9A1. Are these popular in Europe? If the Steyr was just a tiny bit more reliable, like 100% reliable instead of 99.9% reliable like mine, people might not buy Glocks. Have you ever been to a shooting range in America? A European attorney general (or whatever the equivalent post is) would probably have a stroke if they came to a shooting range in America. I roll in to my shooting club with four guns and about 2,000 rounds of ammo in the trunk of my car. And I'm one of the lightly armed ones. There's a regular at our club with a Barrett M82. Good luck with Smith & Wesson customer service. Later,

[jaybo292]

Very very nice SW. I love those squiggly lines. OOOOHHHHH!What a feeling! :D
Here is a pick of my SW SS 108284. Looks a lot like yours. Kind of.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/jaybo292/NewSaturnGrips1.jpg

[Gunner777]

The bushing is the only picture that bothers me. The rest are probably of no concern. I've never seen a custom fitted bushing that looked that rough. I know when I fit one they are smooth on the inside with no gouge marks like that one. I guess it's ok as long as it functions ok and is not wearing any spots on the barrel that might cause problems in the future.

[Johnny Ringo]

... From the pictures you posted, it looks like maybe your trigger is like mine.
Hi tglahn17,
yes mine is also of anodised aluminium. I expected the black one. I got the anodised one. But I don’t feel beeing born under a bad sign.
It looks great! – Even better!

What's your other sidearm?
You know that's blasphemy! There is no other gun beside my 1911! ;)

I got my license a month ago. The .45 was my first choice. The other one will probably be a revolver in .44 Magnum.
I focused on: Ruger’s Super Black Hawk in 7 1/2” or 5” and on Smith & Wesson’s Model 29 in 6 1/2” (that’s the reissued
one - 50th anniversary or so?).

In rifles it’ll be a Winchester (probably ’94) in .357 Magnum and of course a Sharps rifle cal. 45/70 Also I am yearning
for a M1 Cal. .30 Carbine – I guess, I am hooked on antiques.

On the semi-automatic sector I am peeking at this little beauty here (That’ll be the only modern one): http://www.oberlandarms.com/index.php?category=Waffen&id=OA15_12&page=details Or a similar model in .308


One of my collection is the Steyr M9A1. Are these popular in Europe?

I know Steyr but I know no-one who’s possessing one. Around here I'd say, very common are Glock’s and Heckler & Koch’s.
CZ’s are also not too rare. Smith & Wesson and Ruger Revolvers are also widespread. Custom guns mainly Peters Stahl and
STI.

Most of the guys I know shoot: .22 lr, 9mm and Revolvers in .357 Magnum – I’d dare to say, most shooters in Germany do,
as ammunition price is a good indicator.


Have you ever been to a shooting range in America?

No, I haven’t even been to America yet. But I have seen it on T.V. People carrying nearly everthing from light to heavy
machine-guns, even cruise missiles ;) to the gallery.

What brands of ammunition do you prefer for your PC?

[Johnny Ringo]

Very very nice SW. I love those squiggly lines. OOOOHHHHH!What a feeling! :D
Here is a pick of my SW SS 108284. Looks a lot like yours. Kind of.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/jaybo292/NewSaturnGrips1.jpg

Yes, it looks very similar. How does it shoot?

[Gunner777]

I use Hornady 200 grain +p or Cor-Bon DP. You can order Cor-Bon direct from the factory.Cor Bon Ammo (http://www.corbon.com/)

[Johnny Ringo]

Gentlemen!

I have just checked my inbox. Smith & Wesson wrote me today to return the gun to them - FOC.
I have sent them all those pictures I have posted here. Well, they didn't write anything about the
bashing marks on the chamber and state that the slide looks not to bad, but they don't like the
look of the bushing!

Unfortunately I forgot to mention that I am not a U.S. resident. Hm, I guess I am not allowed to
just put the gun into a box and ship it overseas (?) I'll contact my dealer tomorrow - Let's see
how we can handle this.

I use Hornady 200 grain +p or Cor-Bon DP. You can order Cor-Bon direct from the factory.Cor Bon Ammo (http://www.corbon.com/)
Hello Gunner777,

do you know the muzzle velocity for the Hornady's - are these FMJ?

How is the felt recoil compared to standard non +p ammunition?

Have you ever tried Magtech's FMJ 230 grains?

Best regards

[pa_guns]

Hm, I guess I am not allowed to
just put the gun into a box and ship it overseas (?) I'll contact my dealer tomorrow - Let's see
how we can handle this.


Hi

I suspect that tossing it in a carry on bag and hopping an airplane to deliver it to S&W isn't a very good idea either. :D :D :D I think they ran my bag trough about eight different scanners before I got on the plane last week ...

They must have some kind of warranty process that works through the dealer.

Bob