Visit With A Forumite

[1911Tuner]

Had a completely enjoyable visit from member browningwgm Sunday...one of the slam-dunk nicest people I've met through the forums. He brought a nice Colt Gunsite pistol along in need of a bit of the ol' tweak, which was partly due to the extractor and partly due to the enhanced "Dimple Throat" not performing as intended. Simple stuff, mostly. It still needs just a bit more attention, but we were able to solve his intermitent failure to return to battery issues...or at least the 120-round test-fire w/no stoppages satisfied him that it was corrected.

One thing that struck him was that...during the push-to-battery litmus test...
standard, tapered-lip/GI "Hardball" magazines provided a glass-smooth go to battery function, while the timed-release "Wadcutter" magazines still gave a
little bump on the top round...and when we tried the hardball magazine on
lower rounds...the push into battery was so effortless that it felt like a round wasn't even feeding.

This was also noted with a Loaded Springfield that was brought by another member...Rob1035...and he asked me if I'd sell him a few of those old, obsolete magazines. (I declined. I know a good thing when I see it.) :D

Rob's pistol has other issues that rightly belong to Springfield, but that's meat for another thread in the correct forum.

So...The old magazines worked best in the modern pistol, while the Wilson 7-rounders left a bit to be desired. Wonder what conclusions that we can draw from this. Any comments on exactly why this "phenomenon" was evident?
(For the record...I already know.) :cool:

Incidentally, the old mags will also function just fine with hollowpoints and lead SWCs...in unaltered USGI pistols and modern smokepoles alike.

[John]

Well, I can try and answer this test Master.

The mags with the tappered lips, allow the round to tip upwards sooner than the ones with the straight lips. In that way, the round hits the frame ramp at a more accute angle, and is therefore easier to be pushed in the chamber by the slide.

Am I anywhere near being correct?

[1911Tuner]

Close, boss. I'll give ya a little clew...

The tapered lips start the release earlier, but complete it later...and the final release is gradual. By the time the rim is released, it's well under the extractor. The wadcutter lip design has parallel lips almost all the way to the release point...and releases the round abruptly...before, or right at the beginning of extractor pickup.

If ya get it...hang onto it for a while to see if anybody else figures it out.
I've made this point before...but this time I had two eyewitnesses that saw it happen....and noted how much difference it made. It was literally a solid
"Ka-Chunk" as opposed to a "schlaaaaap!" as the guns went to battery.

My range beaters feed so smooth that I can't use GI magazines in'em. They go to battery almost as fast as they do empty, and I don't want to damage the lower lugs.

[John]

I had written something about the rim getting under the extractor easier, but I didn't know that the round is released later, I thought it was all due to the angle. Since I couldn't explain it though, I erased it.

So the question is where do we find those magazines with the gradual lips opening, the dimple and the magic powder that smooths out feeding?

The latest Metalforms I got about 6 months ago, had the straight lips. And from a qucik check I did, I must have 2-3 of those, no-name, but tappered lips and a dimple!

[1911Tuner]

The tapered lip design STARTS the release earlier, but completes the release later than the wadcutter design. Maybe a better way to explain it is that almost at the point the the slide starts to strip the round, it starts to move up as it moves forward. The wadcutter design holds the round until it reaches the release point, and releases it abruptly.

Where can ya get'em? Good luck. I rarely see'em at gun shows any more...
and when I do, I snap'em up. ;)

You may be able to find some older Colt commercial magazines, that had a taper in the lips that led up to the less abrupt, later release point than what is typical of what is available nowadays.

[swampthang]

Any way someone could post a pic of them?

[1911Tuner]

Swampthang...I can, but the pictures are necessarily large in order to see the subtle differences that they're oversized for the forum standard. I'll send you one via PM. Stand by...

[GR8GIFT]

I found 2 WWII magazines loaded with 1942 hardball rounds in an attic in 1977. They had supposedly been there since just after WWI. Both magazines had 7 rounds loaded. They were in a friends grandparents house so we decided to leave them loaded up and take them out to the range the next trip and shoot them in my Colt Combat Commander.
It was really no suprise to me that when loaded into my 45 and I racked the slide back the first round fed just fine. I then fired that magazine empty to slide lock. Removed that magazine and did the same with the second one.
Unfortunately he kept the magazines. Sure wish I could have talked him out of them.
I have Wilson magazines that have given me trouble after about 9 years, had to replace the springs. Still not bad 9 years before a problem. At least I think the magazine springs were the problem, first round diving into the ramp on the frame. New springs problem's gone.
I've never really worried about springs taking a set or losing strength because of those 2 WWII magazines, so I was suprised that my Wilson Compact (1996 I had it built on a Springfield Compact) seemed to have a problem with weak springs in the magazines.

[browningwgm]

Next time I'm bringing a notebook and write some stuff down, my memory ain't as good as it used to be. I find it hard to put into words how great I felt after meeting 1911Tuner and his family. Not many people would invite a complete stranger with a gun into his home but he did and I'm thankful.

While we were at the range I got to see something that really amazed me. After we had test fired 120+ rounds he asked me for 4 rounds. He loaded them in a mag and proceeded to fire the gun holding it only with 2 fingers. He fired it this way straight up, upside down, and tilted to both sides. This dispelled the thought that one must have a gorilla grip to make a gun run. I'm now a firm beliver that if a gun jams while limp wrisiting it probably needs a little tweaking somewhere.

When we got back from the range he brought out 3 gorgeous guns to dispell another mispreception that things have to be modified in order to feed wadcutters or hollowpoints. The feedramps and barrels on these guns were unmodified and to feel and hear the smoothness in which they fed semi-wad cutters was unbelievable, I'm still amazed. One of these was a Remingtom Rand. Without a doubt, the nicest Rem. Rand I've laid eyes on.

I'm already looking forward to getting back over to visit and do some more shooting but I'm going to have to start stocking up on ammo. It seems that Gunsite now has quit an appetite.

[daveohno]

Any way someone could post a pic of them?
+1, please post a pic so we can see what we're trying to learn about.

[44 Man]

Well! I have one military mag and a couple of old Colt mags and they work fine although I usually keep my Colt's loaded with the 'new' Colt mags as now supplied from the factory. I keep my Wilson mags loaded for backups. Now an interesting observation. I have loaded up some rounds with an LBT 225 gr WFN gas check bullet I received from Lloyd Small to try. I have loaded them as deeply as possible due to the taper on the side of the bullet, but they are just a little long. These bullets will only feed 100% of the time from the Wilson mags, and often hang up in the 'tapered' feed lips mags. (three point jam) I know this is a 'one of' situation caused by using a bullet that was not designed to feed through a 1911, but it shows not everything works the same. I like these bullet for walking in the woods, so I am glad I could get them to work. You can see from the pics that they are accurate in this commander. PS. This Commander has a Bar-sto barrel that is well throated but they will feed fine through my newer Gov't with the dimpled barrel also. (But again, only from the Wilson mags) 44 Man.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/clare44man/DSCF0179.jpg

[1911Tuner]

I like that bullet! I shoot a lot of one of a similar design...A 225-grain truncated cone flat point...that feeds like green grease thru a goose in
all my pistols...USGIs included, and from the tapered-lip hardball magazines.
.44 man...Offhand, I'd say your pistole' needs a little tweakin'. If you're ever in my neck of the woods, drop by for a Turbocoffee and shootin' session, and I'll take care of it for ya.

daveohno wrote:

>+1, please post a pic so we can see what we're trying to learn about.<
************

I'm willin' but it'll have to be The Commandante's call since the pix are necessarily over-large for the board standards. He may let me post it and then turn it into a link.

What say you bossman?

[Combat Controller]

1911 Tuner, how about using tinypic.com and posting the link here? That way we can just go over to it and see?

[daveohno]

Tuner, Swampthang forwarded me your pm so I have the pic. Thanks from me to both of you.

[44 Man]

Tuner, you're not very handy to get to from where I am but I fully intend to make it a point to meet you someday. Of course I'll bring a few toys with me! That target was actually shot with two different loads right after I got it. The bottom holes are from 200 swc's and the top ones are from the 225 gr wfn bullet! It would be good to get her perkolating like it should. (Like JMB intended it to!) Thanks. 44 Man

[1911Tuner]

Still waitin' to hear from the boss on the "Big Picture" request.

44Man...As a died-in-the-wool bullet caster, I'm interested in that bullet design...Especially seein' as how it's a gas check bullet. Ya say it was a one-off custom mould? If ya don't mind me askin'...Is it a single or double cavity mould? Any chance that he'll duplicate it? And the inevitible...How much?

[44 Man]

Tuner, I got those bullets from Lloyd Small, he says that is an LBT mold. A 220 lfngc design. He's on here regularly but I emailed him a link also, so he may pop on and give you some more info. I certainly like the design and if you can smooth the feeding up on this Commander, I'll definately have to get down that way. (she throws brass in embarrassing directions too!) I do like the gun and I do have to say this is the only bullet I need to take care in feeding. We'll definately make the trip! 44 Man

[OD*]

Lloyd Smale maybe? ;)
Lloyd's one of the good guys.

[44 Man]

Yes, O.D. I stand corrected. I should know better, just was not thinking. He loaded me up with a bunch of different bullets to try and I've only gotten thru a few of them. Good guy, great shooter. Glad to have him as my friend. 44 Man

[OD*]

:D

Unfortunatley, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Lloyd face to face, I've known him a while from the different boards and we share some mutual friends.