Gold Cup !

[gator]

Picked up this Gold Cup Frame on its way to being a frankinstine 1911 !
What should I do with it? Picked it up for $80 bucks. Looks like a little of every one in it.http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce24b3127cce8dd6cb32579000000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce24b3127cce8dd6cb3e579c00000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

How could I find all the colt parts for it?

[pa_guns]

Hi

With the holes in it for the scope mount the frame is a bit far from "perfect".

I'm not sure I would take it back to being 100%. I think I'd probably put a normal Colt slide and a good barrel.

Bob

[Phil]

Brownells carries some Colt factory parts.......

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/schematics/schemmfg.aspx?schemid=140&m=3&mn=Colt%c2%ae&model=Gold+Cup%2c+10mm+Gold+Cup%2c+Combat+Target+

[Terry R]

You got some really ugle holes in the frame, and it (of course) has the usual "idiot mark" below the slide lock lever.
So OK, let's agree that it's just plain coyote ugly and very likely abused considering the obvious scratches.

With that said, you "may" have a really nice place to start.
I would first let a "pro" gunsmith who has a LOT of 1911 experience look it over and see what shape the slide guides are in as well as look for any other excessive wear or damage.

IF it passes "the test" and the gunsmith feels that it's in basically sound condition without excessive wear, then get the rest of the parts to make it a complete pistol, then have the holes welded, then have the whole pistol refinished in one of the "tuff coat" type finishes.

Now with all THAT said, I think that I would personally send the darn thing just the way it is off to Wilson Combat with a letter explaining how you would like them to repair, build, and refinish it.
Wilson does work on Colts, and you could end up with a professionally done pistol that you could be very proud of.

But that's just my .02.

Terry

[gottripletsNC]

From the pictures, the slide guides look decent, but the picture may be deceiving. The ejector looks as if its took a lot of peening, and the top of the disconnector shows some decent wear. With that showing, I'd say the sear and hammer hooks would probably be worn pretty good too. It looks like the BT is pretty much gone, at least the portion that sticks out, not that that makes a difference, it may have been done that way for comfort of the shooter. I'd guess that the Mainspring is probably worn too. What it looks like is just a usable frame. If you wanna learn everything about fitting parts, and make a true frankengun, it might be a good piece to start on. With the wear, and holes in the frame, I wouldn't waste my money trying to get it back to factory, but it might be a good starter piece to build your own gun.

I don't know that I would drop the mula for a high end custome builder to try to get it up to spec, thats just me, but it does have potential, and at worst you haven't lost that much money.

Just taking a stab in the dark on this one, but with the idiot scratch, and the holes in the frame, it looks like this one might have been used for competition. That being said, most of the time, they have lighter springs in them, and use lighter loads. This might be a benefit, as it puts a little less frame stresses on it. Thats just a guess tho.

[Hunter]

You might also keep this in mine her being a Series 70 frame it is at youngest a 1983 frame (I believe that is close) so she has been around a while. A complete rebuild is in order because you have no idea what that frame has been subject too especially being some sort of competition gun. I would have a machine shop fill in the hole that were for the scope mount.

[dakota1911]

I would not have paid $80 for it, but that is just me. If somebody gave this to me I would examine it. There are lots of good posts about how to do this on this site plus others. If it looks like a Colt I would call the Colt 800 number and at least find out when it was made. Numbers are on this site.

[RickB]

$80 seems like a pretty cheap Colt frame. I don't know that I could resist it, even without a clue as to what I'd do with it. The holes in the dust cover can be plugged (they'e threaded, right?), and frame fitted to whatever slide you want to put on it. You could conceivably find a Gold Cup top end to put on it, but I suspect it would cost $300-$400, easy.

[Hunter]

I see Gold Cup slides on gunbroker from time to time. With a little work you could have a nice Colt, if not still some good parts you could make money on.

[gottripletsNC]

You might also keep this in mine her being a Series 70 frame it is at youngest a 1983 frame (I believe that is close) so she has been around a while.

Knowing that you know colts up one side and down, you knew it woulda been a series 70, but I shoulda caught that too, since it doesnt have the FP safety mechanism in it...
Good catch

[Hunter]

Knowing that you know colts up one side and down, you knew it woulda been a series 70, but I shoulda caught that too, since it doesnt have the FP safety mechanism in it...
Good catch
As my grandfather would say a blind hog will pick up an acorn every now and then. For you city folk that means the same as even a stopped clock is right twice a day. :D

[daveohno]

Hunter, how did you know I'd need that translation? :confused:

[pa_guns]

Hi

One more thing to check on the frame.

Drop a barrel into it and see what the feed ramp on the frame looks like. It may have been worked on a bit more than you would like.

None of this is a end of the world thing. A guy with a TIG welder can take care of the holes in the slide pretty fast. When he's doing that building up the ramp is pretty easy as well.

If you shop around the welding shouldn't be to expensive. If it's just the frame holes I would trust a buddy in his basement to fill them in. There's not a lot of stress on that part of the frame.

This certainly is a project pistol, but there's nothing wrong with that. Projects can be a lot of fun. That's especially true if you can do them for half price.

Bob

[44 Man]

My eyes are getting old, but I don't see a feed ramp. This frame may have been cut for a ramped barrel. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation. I still think it is a bargan at $80 and would snap it up in a minute! 44 Man

[Phil]

Hey Hunter.... Do you know if the original slide stops were checkered on these Gold Cups?

[Hunter]

Phil I do believe they were serrated all mine are that are original.
I do agree with .44 man I noticed that something don't look quite right with the feed ramp. If this was once a bullseye gun it could of been a wad cutter pistol and a ramped barrel installed to aid in feeding SWC or WC ammunition. A closer look would tell better.

[Phil]

Well, the slide stop could certainly have been replaced, but all of these things raise a question in my mind as to what sort of frame it really is. gator, do you know for certain that this is a Gold Cup frame?

[GR8GIFT]

The Gold Cup indicator is the Gold Cup Trigger. It appears there is no feed ramp a better photo of that area would help. I noticed it was a Series 70 or earlier and had the right trigger for a Gold Cup.

[Hunter]

If you check the serial number there should be a 70N as prefix or suffix (depending on year the early '80s GCNM had the N70 as a suffix). That is a GCNM steel trigger and since it is wider than a standard trigger it would have taken some fitting to get the GC trigger to work in a standard frame. I would guess someone would of not gone to the trouble especially on a comp gun to fit that trigger to a standard frame. The Serial number will be the deciding factor. Remember Kathy at Colt (1800 962 Colt) she can tell you for sure yes or no and the date of manufacture.

[gator]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.
The SN is 70N651**
Dont look like a feed ramp to me.
I'm getting deeper in the dodo with this couse I dont know jack about a gold cup not having a feed ramp. Do you just get a ramped barrel?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f6cadfd700000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f0afdfb100000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f18b9f0d00000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f6d0dfcd00000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

[gator]

Forgot one.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f0bc5e9200000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f0ac5e8200000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce27b3127cce8dd1f1ac1e1a00000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

[Phil]

Well, it's definitely a (well used) Gold Cup :D

[GR8GIFT]

Did the 38 special Gold Cups us ramped barrels originally? That could answer the ramp problem. I've never seen a 38 special National Match apart. Otherwise it is modified to take ramped barrels. Question is are there different ramped barrel configurations?

[gator]

I dont know! Now I dont know what to buy for it or what to look for. Maybe it was a 10mm I dont know now.It looks like the bar that kicks the round out has been ground back flat too but why?

[pa_guns]

Hi

Well that'll teach me not to go back and look at the original picture !!

I'm telling you to look at a feed ramp that isn't even there - sorry about that.

I certainly would give Colt a call with the serial number to find out what this frame was when it was new.

If it started out as a standard 45 then it's been chopped for a ramped barrel. Since you need to get a new barrel anyway that's not a bad thing. You will need to take some measurements to get the right one though.

Who ever owned that gun before put a *lot* of money into it. I would guess that it's been well cared for.

Bob

[Hunter]

You will have to go back with a ramped barrel. It may be a drop in fit but I doubt it. That could of been cut for a specific barrel and now with it gone who knows what it had. If you know a real good gunsmith he could fit up a ramped barrel for you, though I do not personally like them that is about your only option now. With the ejector is looks like the right shape and someone could of done a little file work to adjust the angle of ejection. Have you taken those Pachmayers off to see if it still has Colt stocks on it? I still would not let the $80 bother me because there is $80 worth of parts on it worst case. I might would let a good gunsmith check it out before you spend any money on it. If you do not know one I do here in N.C. that is awesome.

[pa_guns]

Hi

A lot of "great ideas" about the 1911 seem to come and go. A while ago it was a "fact" that a ramped barrel was the right way to go for a competition pistol. The ramp was required to reliably feed wadcutters.

Obviously we don't quite look at it that way these days. To be honest not everybody looked at it that way back when they were popular on .45's.

The fact is that you can make a very nice 45 cal 1911 with a ramped barrel. It's not the in thing that it once was, but you can still do it. Just about all of the good barrel guys will sell you a ramped barrel.

A few basic measurements on your frame should give you a pretty good idea if a modern barrel will fit. I suspect it will, possibly with a little work on a milling machine, but probably not.

This does sound like a fun project. I hope you go for it.

Bob

[OD*]

Did the 38 special Gold Cups us ramped barrels originally? That could answer the ramp problem.
It didn't leave the factory that way, someone had that done.

[Ericthenorse]

Have you taken those Pachmayers off to see if it still has Colt stocks on it? I.

So, how could it still have colt stocks on it.???.... They obviously removed them to install the Pachmayers.....

[Hunter]

I have seen (I believe) those Pachmayrs as wrap arounds over the wood stocks. They add the feel of rubber to hand placement while leaving the wood intact. I could be wrong. I am not well versed in aftermarket stocks.

[Ericthenorse]

The ones he has are a Pachmayer wood and rubber combo.... They come that way.... I want a set..... :D

[Hunter]

Oh my mistake sorry. I had it in my mind (yea I know) the rubber part was a slip on piece over factory stocks. I have never seen a set first hand so I was going on what I had heard. Thanks Eric learn something new here everyday. How's the new baby by the way.

[Ericthenorse]

She is WONDERFULL.... I am the proudest daddy ever....
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/ericthenorse/Camryn/Camryn047.jpg

[Hunter]

Yea I had an idea of your answer well before I asked the question. Good to go she is as cute as a speckled puppy!

[gottripletsNC]

beautiful little girl there Eric, I've got three 3 1/2 year old, all girls, so I know what a daughter can do to a man's heart.

[pa_guns]

Hi

That's a cute kid.

Enjoy them while you can. They grow up and move out in the blink of an eye.

Bob

[gator]

Very cute!! I dont see a NRA patch on that outfit yet!!

[pa_guns]

Very cute!! I dont see a NRA patch on that outfit yet!!

Yes, but she's already keeping her thumb down to keep it off of the safety on a 1911.

Training starts early out there ...

Bob

[gator]

LOL !! Bet she out shoots yu!

[daveohno]

Ahh, little ones! :) Gotta love the sweet little boogers!

[gator]

Well I'm thinking of taking the gold cup back to the shop where I got it. I didnt know it was going to be this much trouble to put it to gather. I figured just 1911a1 standerd parts went in it. I didnt wont to put a lot of money in it. If I cant get my money back I might put it up for trade or some thing. O well.

[Phil]

Well, at least you don't have much money in it. If the shop won't take it back, you could probably part it out and recover your $80.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Well it should be a fun project for somebody. It is going to be a lot of work though. You probably could get a more standard frame at retail and save money on the project.

Bob

[gator]

Well it's back where it came from and I got all my money back. Maybe the next frame will be workable for me.

[daveohno]

Hey, look at it this way, it wasn't wasted time, it was a learning experience that was tuition free. you just had to spend some time in the "class"

[gator]

Yea I know !! I know a few things to look for now when I go to buy one now.

[canuck63]

You got some really ugle holes in the frame, and it (of course) has the usual "idiot mark" below the slide lock lever.
Terry

Hi Terry,
what's an "Idiot Mark"? :confused: !It's obvious that this gun has seen better days,but when you say "Idiot Mark" you mean something related to the way the lever has been put back in the frame or is it more generic :D ?
TIA
Manny

[OD*]

http://mysite.verizon.net/od45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/idiotscratch.jpg

;)

[auto45]

Ha, I have that mark on my first 1911. And one going up the slide too.
That lever works both ways!! :D

[OD*]

Ha, I have that mark on my first 1911. And one going up the slide too.
That lever works both ways!! :D
You have a professional idiot scracth. :p ;)

[canuck63]

Now i see..........I have an Idiot Scratch myself...on my immaculate SS Gold Cup it sticks out like a sore thumb :bf: !
Cheers
Manny

[pa_guns]

Hi

The 1911 is far from the only pistol with the "idiot scratch" feature. If the pistol is destined for collection then it's a problem. On a shooter it's like any other sign of use.

Bob

[Phil]

You have a professional idiot scratch. :p ;)LOL. :D :D

[daveohno]

OD, you even have a picture of an idiot scratch! With an arrow pointing it out for us :D

[swampthang]

OD, you even have a picture of an idiot scratch! With an arrow pointing it out for us :D
I just thought of a new finish "Idiot Scratch" ,from muzzle to mainspring! think of the possibilities!!!:D

[pa_guns]

Hi

A fine wire weel can do a pretty good job of creating an "idiot scratch" finish. It's actually not as crazy as it sounds.

Bob

[gator]

Too Hard to scratch LOL. :D

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce33b3127cce8de23b5795af00000016108AYuXLFyzcNd

[pa_guns]

Too Hard to scratch LOL. :D



Hi

All you need is a diamond hard slide stop :D :D :D :D

Bob