Barrels?

[Helstrm]

Okay my wife has trumpted my toy budget so I am going to build up my next 1911 myself. I have decided on an Armscor frame and slide. I also have a list of internals but what I need some help with is deciding on a barrel. I don't want to pickup the first barrel I find at the gunshow with NM stamped on it....

What barrel do you guys prefer? This will be a full size 1911 that I will use as a carry/IDPA gun but I will be buying a few parts each month. Does not need to hold 1" at 50 yards.. In other words I will not build it so tight that it is not reliable. We will be building 2 of them and I will post pics once they are complete. About 90 days out depending on how much I blow on the parts.

[ArmscorBA]

Give me a call!
Ivan

[pa_guns]

Hi

You might just buy an RIA and treat it as a kit of parts ....

How much money do you plan on spending on the process? High end barrels aren't cheap.

Bob

[ArmscorBA]

;) ;) ;)
Ivan

[Roper]

Get the "Ivan Special" parts kit (also known as a RIA 1911) change the sights (if you need to), polish the barrel with flitz or similar product(so you can say you worked on it), go to the range.

[ArmscorBA]

These guys have a good point, It would be cheaper to buy one that to build one. Unless you are doing it for the torchure. :p
Ivan

[Helstrm]

I already have a Rock that I carry and shoot all the time. This is my way of getting another one. A few pieces at a time. I will give you a call tomorrow.

[ArmscorBA]

Thanks.
Ivan

[Deacon Aegis]

Mmmmm, torture good. Building torture very good. Botching a grip safety to frame fit or slide to rail fit torture BAAAAAAaaaaddddddd! (Ask me how I know) Accu-rails to the rescue. Blarg.

[ArmscorBA]

AH!!!!!
Ivan

[Deacon Aegis]

Jooooooo know it. Hehe

[pa_guns]

Hi

Every time I look at the cost of solo building a pistol up the tools seem to be a significant part of the cost. Even with something as "simple" as a barrel fit there seems to be a bit of a tool cost.

Bob

[gbw]

Just one experience, fwiw.

Nothing like shooting a gun you built yourself, if it's good. It ain't cheap, and in my limited experience you really do not save money this way. It is fun and very satisfying, if you like to build things and are competent with tools. If not, you're better off (WAY better off) getting one of the professionals to build you a gun.

I've only done a total of 4 frame-up builds so far, of 9 planned. All have used Colt slides and Kart NM barrels so far. 2 Essex frames and 2 Caspian. Otherwise, higher end parts - Brown, Wilson, C&S, EGW, etc. Very happy with results so far.

From that, the tools you MUST have are: (Don't bother with cheap tools). Prices are guesses, should be close

- Very good light sources, and dedicated space to work. Or go blind and miss things that should have been seen
- Narrow pillar file for barrel upper lugs and hood. $15
- Good quality 0-6" caliper .0005 res. (dial is easier for me to see, others prefer digital) $60
- Dremmel set - seldom used, but it does save time now and then. $65
- Chain saw file 1/8" or 3/16" for lower lugs. $5
- Feeler gauges $5
- Brass / Plastic and rubber hammers. $20
- Good quality (Sears, etc.) 6" and 8" mill files $20
- Sandpaper in various girts - 320 through 600 $20 / gun (more than I thought!)
- Fine lapping compound or JB Bore cleaner. I use a compound I make from AlO powder available from lab supply distributors, you can get it down to micron size. $10.
- Good quality screwdriver set which you can grind to fit - $20.
- Needle file set (Fine cut) - $15
- 3 or 4 Brass or nylon punches - $20 (or make your own)
- Sharpie Pen & Sight Black spray powder - this stuff will show contact marks when nothing else will, if you can find it. It's messy. (actually, any spray powder would probably work) $2 / gun.
- Masking or electrical tape. $1 / gun.
- Degreaser, can use starting fluid or carb cleaner. Be careful. $3 / gun.

These are the minimum to me, and using them, plus Sharpie markers, and near endless patience, you can get extremely close fits and good finishes.

If you want to tighten a slide:
- at least 2 SF bars, $50, I think, plus an 8oz BP hammer (polish face mirror smooth).


If you want to do your own trigger work, it gets more expensive:
- Sear fixture (jig) $100 plus
- Hammer sq. file $35
- Stones (1 at least, 2 is much better) 6" x 1/2" x 1/2" $15 ea.

Other tools and fixtures can be made or substituted as needed, using scrap etc.


Very nice to have, but you can do good quality work without them.

Barrel lower lug cutter - .196 size, $85
Other specialized files - pillar, various sizes and cuts, $15 - $20 each
Dial indicator w/ points and bases - VERY USEFUL
Micrometer, depth gauge
Headspace gauges and trigger pull gauge
Heat source - MAPP gas minimum, acetylene preferred. Propane really doesn't quite cut it. For silver solder / brazing.
Drill press.

Beyond that, lathes, milling machines, surface grinders, furnaces, etc. which are way beyond us.


Well, I'm sure everyone has their own list, with additions or corrections or other ideas, maybe this will help some.

[Helstrm]

We already have most of the tools and we build our own jigs. We also have a lathe, Mill. grinders. dremels, blasting cabinet. Baking oven, Mig and Tig welders.. Spot welder.
We have built several AKs a couple of FALs an essex junk box build a rolling block .22

This winter I think we are going to mill a 1911 out of a block of steel.. That should be a lot of fun, These projects are all fun and I love spending time in the shop. We are in the middle of building a heat treating Oven now.

[ArmscorBA]

Helstrm,
NICE!!!! :D
Ivan

[Deacon Aegis]

There should be no doubt at all that hand crafting a 1911 is far, FAR more expensive than purchasing a manufactured gun. The investment in tools alone is significant. The investment of consumable materials used up during a build, such as sandpaper, lubricants, drill bits or dremel bits, etc can amount to quite a bit as well and then alot of the ultimate result depends on how meticulas, patient, and practiced one might be. I won't even begin to weigh the intangible senses of reward or accomplishment verses the cost, the truth is, custom building a handgun is supremely expensive.

[Helstrm]

Yes but if you already have the tooling to complete it including the lubricants, bits ect then it comes down to time. Which being a married man and a father I do not have much of but if it takes me months to complete the reward of having a completely hand made gun that I made myself would be awesome. If and when I do start this project I will keep you guys posted. First I have to finish the Oven and then I have one other project to finish. (Non gun related) After that I will start making the jigs I need to hold the frame in place while I mill it out.

I know it would be cheaper to buy another 1911, and I would not begin to claim that it is a better idea to make one. But what a fun profect it will be.

[Deacon Aegis]

Helstrm, indeed I'm not inferring that anyone should give up the idea of building one themselves, actually I encourage most folks to give it a try. The tools, parts, and skills can all be acquired through time and patience. I was only indicating that one should not look for hand building as a mechanism of frugalness. Hehe. Now you sir are obviously more of an exception rather than the rule in the extensive tooling and equipment resources readily available to undertake such a project and I anticipate and look forward to seeing what wonderful creations roll off your bench. :D

[muscle]

The only thing I dont have is a mill or lathe. I have welders, blast cab, drill press, shop press, etc.

Harbor freight sells benchtop mills but I would not be sure if something like this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991) would do the job. Specifically speaking of 1911 work such as ramps, serrations, french cuts, dovetails.

[pa_guns]

The only thing I dont have is a mill or lathe. I have welders, blast cab, drill press, shop press, etc.

Harbor freight sells benchtop mills but I would not be sure if something like this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991) would do the job. Specifically speaking of 1911 work such as ramps, serrations, french cuts, dovetails.

Hi

Once you have used a mill with digital readouts you get spoiled in a hurry ...

The only real issue I see with the drill press style mills is that they still have a drill press feed for the "Z" axis. Depending on what you are doing that may or may not be a big deal.

You are not doing real heavy machining on most pistols so the capacity of the machine isn't an issue. It's finding a simple machine that has the precision you need.

Bob

[Helstrm]

This is the mill I use but I added a motor to the 19" travel so I can just sit back while I make most of the cuts. The one thing you need in addition to the mill is a stable platform. Dials and gauges to zero everything in and a very good VISE... If you can't hold your work then you can't do anything precision. I also added a cooling system which saves a lot of tooling.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/42800-42899/42827.gif

[Helstrm]

I will also add that even though I have a big lather I rarely use it... The mill on the other hand gets tons of use. Here are a few pics of the shop. The compressor is outside in a shed to keep the noise down.

http://gunsmithusa.com/files/2296_189.jpg

http://gunsmithusa.com/files/2297_160.jpg

http://gunsmithusa.com/files/2301_144.jpg

http://gunsmithusa.com/files/2300_113.jpg

http://gunsmithusa.com/files/2299_197.jpg

[muscle]

Well my shop is definately alot messier! :o

We spend alot of time in the shop with working on our vehicles, running a General contracting business, hunting and shooting. Looks like I need to get it cleaned up, ready for whatever is next.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/rddown/Misc/shop003.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/rddown/Misc/shop001.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/rddown/Misc/shop002.jpg

Looks like the mill you have goes for $999. I was hoping to get into a smaller one for less.