Help with fitting a tight new slide and frame...

[flyfisher24]

Howdy all,

I am new to the forum and also new to gunsmithing. I really love the forum and all of the advice/help that is offered here. There is some great reading here.

Anyway, to the point. I recently purchased an Essex frame and slide to build my first 1911. I figured for the first build, go with the Essex in case I mess up (slightly cheaper than others). The frame and slide came "matched" from the company. I could barely get the slide to start on the frame, so I took the dimensions of everything and got out the file and filed a small amount off of the slide at the needed areas. I now have the slide to the point that it can be pounded on and off (the full length of travel) using a rubber mallet. It is still a very tight fit. My question is this: Do I file more, or begin lapping with a fine lapping compound? If I am to begin lapping, do I continue to drive the slide on the frame back and forth?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, in advance,
flyfisher

[govtmodel]

Stop filing & start lapping-

[Hawkmoon]

IMHO if the slide has to be pounded on with a mallet, it needs more filing. If it was supposed to have been fitted by the factory, they didn't do it. Shouldn't be that tight.

[1911Tuner]

Lapping one that requires a hammer to move it is called cold-fitting, and is a fast, but crude way to do it. Basically not much more than a field expedient method, and not recommended except in the field, and when there is no other choice.

File carefully...then stone it with a medium India stone. When you can move the slide full travel by hand...with effort...that's the time to lap...and use just a dab of a fine grit compound for the task. I like straight J&B Bore Cleaner for the job, followed with about a 50/50 mixture of J&B and oil (CLP Breakfree is very good) to make a slurry that sags off the end of a screwdriver, just short of dripping. When it's moving smoothly, but still a bit tight...rinse all traces of the lap and use a good honing oil and a few hundred pounds of good old-fashioned elbow grease for the final seat.

[Deacon Aegis]

Never, never remove material from the slide. If the slide is out of spec in the rail channels, then you'll never get a good fit. First off, remove material from the frame and frame rails. You can get a file on those where getting a file into the rail channels on a slide is a sure-fire way to get an out of true fit.

[Helstrm]

This makes the job a lot easier and saves you some pain.. google 1911 lapping tool. I made one in the shop but I don't have any pis. I just took an old bushing and welded it to a metal rod and added a T handle.
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/583100000.jpg

[Jerry Keefer]

[QUOTE=Deacon Aegis]Never, never remove material from the slide.

Now Deacon, you know you should never say never......... :nono:


Flyfisher;

measure, measure, measure; determine "exactly" what needs to be adjusted.. you need to maintain the critical frame dimensions. Altering the specs leads to stack problems....."machine" !!
Make a lay out chart and record every applicable dimension and then follow the chart... On a good frame, the only dimension that should need adjustment is the outside rail width. Everything else is slide work..which is quite difficult and nearly impossible to do accurately with files...The only thing that beats accu-rails is a fully machined, full contact frame/slide .

[1911Tuner]

Jerry K...Who was it that said:

"I only know what I can measure."

?

:cool:

[gbw]

Another question on this, if you don't mind...

I think it's in Brownells writeup on F/S fitting, they say to take .001-.002 off of the slide rails forward .25" of where the frame rails end. This makes emperical sense to me, since there's no particular value in a tight slide once the bullet is gone. Slightly looser fit forward would make it somewhat easier to fit the slide, and also seems like it would reduce cycling friction.

But I've learned, from this forum and others, that just because it makes sense to us amateurs doesn't necessarily make it so. So my question is whether or not this is good advice?

PS:
To Jerry Keefer, George Smith, Chuck at Rogers Precision, and all of the other pro's whom I may have missed,... and to especially 1911Tuner:

Thank you. You professionals make our hobby, which could be frustrating at best and downright dangerous at worst, a genuine pleasure. I don't know why you take the time to share you experience and expertise. But speaking for myself, and I suspect many many other amateurs, I very glad and grateful that you do. You surely don't make any money from it. I assume (and this time I think it's ok to assume) that you are true gentleman, and that you do it because you're class guys, and for the love of the sport and your fellow shooters. So again, thanks.

[flyfisher24]

I greatly appreciate all of the input here. Here's what I did, (whether it's the right or wrong way to do it) and it worked: I filed a bit more off of the slide rails (according to my measurements taken with the calipers and the slight marks the slide left on the frame). The amount of material removed was, in my opinion, nominal. I also filed the frame rails ever so slightly. I used a very fine file and was very, very careful. After a few passes, I cleaned up the slide and frame and tried to seat by hand...it fit tightly, but I can now use "elbow grease" to slide the slide the whole way. Still a bit tight, but definitely ready to be lapped. Dimensions appear beautiful, at the moment, no vertical or horizontal slide movement, just a tight fit. I am very pleased.

I really appreciate the advice, guys. I found all kinds of information on how to tighten a slide, but had a hard time finding how to properly fit a new slide. Guess I should have come here first.

Anyway, thanks again. I should be lurking around here for some time.

[1911Tuner]

No secret around here that I don't go much for overly-tight pistols. Don't want'em rattle-trap loose either...just like to have a little wiggle room.
It also keeps me from havin' to do such a precise fit the way that Jerry does.
Of course, that also means that I'm not into chasing sub one-inch 50 yard groups either. Just not my thing.

The above post describing tight in battery, loose a quarter-inch out of battery makes perfect sense for good functional reliability. Me? I don't fool around with target guns, and prefer .003 inch clearance in the rails along with .003 inch between the hood and breechface. .003 to .005 on the sides of the hood is good. Zero downward movement at the rear of the barrel when pressed hard...without actually wedging the barrel into vertical lockup is also good...though not conducive to winning the tropies at Perry. Just not the way I look at a 1911 pistol. That thing's a mankiller. A heartbreaker and a life taker.