Where are the Colts?

[MLee]

Maybe I have missed the answer somewhere on the forum, but there seems to be a serious lack of Colts in my local toy store. I realize that Colt has much lower production numbers of pistols than Kimber, Springfield, etc., but why? I might see one Colt in a store, and 15 Kimbers, 2 Springfields, 1 Sig 1911, and 1 S&W 1911, with a couple of CD's, et. al. as well. I am an equal opportunity abuser of my affliction for obtaining pistols in general and Colts in particular, but I can't understand the lack of available Colts. From what I read on the forum, Colt's popularity has not decreased.
I will admit that the local gun store commando's bad mouth Colt for no logical reason - are they receiving incentives from Kimber? I have a fair number of Kimbers as well, and their quality by no means surpassess Colt. Colt's reliability right out of the box is on average much superior to Kimber, which almost always requires a break-in period. Accuracy for the Colt's has been on average, better than Kimber. Does anyone have some explanation for this perceived contradiction?

Mike

[Hawkmoon]

Other gun stores tell people they "can't get" Colts, then they try to sell a Kimber. My local store is a small operation and he doesn't stock a lot of new pistols. He buys from distributors. If someone wants a Colt, he calls his distributor, and two days later he has a Colt.

The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber.

[Captain America]

The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber.

That nails it! Any Questions?

[paul45]

That nails it! Any Questions?I could not agree more!!!! Because it is true.... and this thought came to mind... "The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber." .....plus Colt doesn't fill their 1911's with MIM (cheaper cost) parts. I like Colt the way it is....I don't want them to be like those others who pump out assembly line flavor of the month 1911's....I dont want my 1911 to look like it has lizard/dinosaur/bird scales on the slide, frame and stocks or have them made in other countries.....Good for others maybe.....Make Mine a Colt!!!! ;)

[auto45]

That, and IMO Kimber "creates" sales with advertising, marketing and a lot of models. Models that "trade-up" consumers to the higher cost ones.

I don't blame the retailers for pushing Kimbers. They are there to make money and will go with suppliers that help them do it.

[wichaka]

I could not agree more!!!! Because it is true.... and this thought came to mind... "The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber." .....plus Colt doesn't fill their 1911's with MIM (cheaper cost) parts. I like Colt the way it is....I don't want them to be like those others who pump out assembly line flavor of the month 1911's....I dont want my 1911 to look like it has lizard/dinosaur/bird scales on the slide, frame and stocks or have them made in other countries.....Good for others maybe.....Make Mine a Colt!!!! ;)



Come on Paul........tell us how you really feel! :D

[jaybo292]

I think Paul might be a Colt fan. :lm:

[Jeffrey]

I could not agree more!!!! Because it is true.... and this thought came to mind... "The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber." .....plus Colt doesn't fill their 1911's with MIM (cheaper cost) parts. I like Colt the way it is....I don't want them to be like those others who pump out assembly line flavor of the month 1911's....I dont want my 1911 to look like it has lizard/dinosaur/bird scales on the slide, frame and stocks or have them made in other countries.....Good for others maybe.....Make Mine a Colt!!!! ;)

Marines and Colts. I'm seeing a pattern here. ;) :D

[paul45]

Sorry to get loud, fellas...at the risk of insulting others....I do get wound up about the Colt "going out of business" stories that persist year after year. I feel so fortunate that the shop 1 mile from my home likes Colts and can get me the occasional new Colt overnighted from Ellett Bros. or RSR. Dealers who say "they can't get Colts" or "Colt doesn't sell to the public" are being dishonest at best or are sadly uninformed on how to conduct business in their chosen profession. Thanks for letting me get on my soapbox! :scared:

[wichaka]

You're preaching to the choir my friend!

[FlameRed]

I dont want my 1911 to look like it has lizard/dinosaur/bird scales on the slide, frame and stocks or have them made in other countries.....Good for others maybe.....Make Mine a Colt!!!! ;)

I like mine as a snake :)

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/flamedred//bobtail_commander.jpg

Thanks to Dave Helton of D & V Customs.

[Hunter]

Paul I have run into the same story several times and after a polite and calm discussion (yea) I have gotten the story that Kimbers have a higher mark up so they are pushed harder because of the bottom line. I reckon I am very luck about 1/2 the gun stores I go to have several Colts (or unlucky you should see my bank statement). Colt's popularity is on the rise and I for one am glad to see that finally happen. Colt does not have the production numbers as the other big names (which to me says something right there in favor of Colt) so that also may be another reason. Make mine a Colt too and Semper Fi devil dog!

[OD*]

Make mine a Colt. http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/uploads/NorthLogan/2005-01-24_161334_1Mustang.gif

[Hunter]

Nice Colt FlameRed. Welcome to the forum, looks like you are starting out the right way.

[wichaka]

Talking Colts........I figured you'd show in short time.

[Hunter]

Am I that predictable?

[Weg Ban]

Am I that predictable?

Not predictable, reliable.

[Rio Vista Slim]

Other gun stores tell people they "can't get" Colts, then they try to sell a Kimber. My local store is a small operation and he doesn't stock a lot of new pistols. He buys from distributors. If someone wants a Colt, he calls his distributor, and two days later he has a Colt.

The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber.
On September 14th, I walked into my local dealer's shop, told him the model number of the pistol that I wanted, waited while he looked it up on his computer, verified that one of his distributors had it, and I paid him for it. I picked up this little beauty 24 hours later.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_0821.jpg

He (the gun shop owner) used to be a Kimber Master Dealer. However, Kimber has recently increased the amount of inventory that a Master Dealer must carry, so he dropped them. Good move, on his part, I would say!

[paul45]

I like mine as a snake :)

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/flamedred//bobtail_commander.jpg

Thanks to Dave Helton of D & V Customs.Tastefully done...I like it. Nice to see you post over here, Flame. I came back here a few months ago.

[paul45]

"However, Kimber has recently increased the amount of inventory that a Master Dealer must carry, so he dropped them." Yeah....They need to forcibly increase sales to offset the huge expenses in replacing all those improperly engineered slides with external extractors..... :D

[larry starling]

Other gun stores tell people they "can't get" Colts, then they try to sell a Kimber. The stocking dealers get incentives from Kimber, so they make a lot more money selling a Kimber than they would make selling a Colt for the same sticker price. So they say anything they can get away with to "steer" you toward the Kimber.
That pretty much hits the nail on the head.can't add much more to it except that if you search around you can find Colt's. I know from experience that in my area they don't sit on shelves to long...... ;)

[daveohno]

Have to know what you want, what you will pay and jump on it when you find it, because it will probably be gone if you think about it too long.

[larry starling]

Sorry to get loud, fellas...at the risk of insulting others....I do get wound up about the Colt "going out of business" stories that persist year after year. I feel so fortunate that the shop 1 mile from my home likes Colts and can get me the occasional new Colt overnighted from Ellett Bros. or RSR. Dealers who say "they can't get Colts" or "Colt doesn't sell to the public" are being dishonest at best or are sadly uninformed on how to conduct business in their chosen profession. Thanks for letting me get on my soapbox! :scared:
I have know you for years now and you ain't sorry for getting loud and I ain't either. It's time we the consumer's who enjoy Colts speak up. I personally get satisfaction out of informing the gun shop commandos who want to push plastic mim filled krylon painted guns that Colt is in fact fine and producing guns. It's pretty sad that a lot of the people who sell guns know very little about what is going on in there profession..... :dead_hors

[larry starling]

"However, Kimber has recently increased the amount of inventory that a Master Dealer must carry, so he dropped them." Yeah....They need to forcibly increase sales to offset the huge expenses in replacing all those improperly engineered slides with external extractors..... :D
And don't forget all the advertising they do. I think they advertise in every magazine available. Heck there might be a pink krylon lady mimber ad in my wife's cosmopolitan...... :D

[daveohno]

But they all tell me that those guns are better than Colt's? Isn't that the truth? :lh:

If the frame (revolver) or the slide doesn't have that little horsey on it, I don't want it. "I am partial to Colt's" (yes Hunter, I just plagiarized you)

[dakota1911]

Gun stores here do have Colts. In this case we vote with our wallets and generally I vote Colt.

[pa_guns]

Hi

You pretty much never see a store with just one Kimber. You either have a whole bundle of them or none. Kimber makes it that way. There is definitely a cost to this kind of marketing.

I'd rather spend my money on stuff like milled parts than marketing.

Colt has hit some hard times over the years. Once a "going out of business" story gets started it takes on a life of it's own. It's like any other good story it just keeps being told.

Bob

[Weg Ban]

Man, I guess I'm luckier than I knew. There are two good gun shops within a few miles of me, both stock Colts or will actually search the distributors base for a customer and get whatever is out there. Their prices are reasonable, they stock ammo for all of them (.38 Super and 10mm, two or three makers, multiple bullet weights). The folks who run them are knowledgeable and pleasant.

Then, to top it off, I got a fine gun smith who only does Colts, Brownings and S&W revolvers and he's about midway between the two shops (his name is Nelson Ford and his shop is called, modestly, The Gunsmith in Phoenix).

[pa_guns]

Hi

In a lot of areas the big box retail style of firearms distribution has pretty much taken over. It's driven a lot of the nice small shops out of business.

I have been pestering the guys at work to come up with a list of places to check out. Generally when I get to a place there is maybe a 1 in 5 chance that it's still operating as a full time business. There's about a 1 in 3 chance that it's there at all. I doubt that anybody remembers places from more than 5 years back ...

Bob

[Monkey With a Gun]

i ask for springfield and i usually get steered to the kimbers,
it happens in just about every shop.
i was in one shop the other day and the guy said "we have the good 1911's over there"
i said "you mean here?"...."yep, that case there"
i said "im not seeing any colts here"
he didnt like my sense of humor much and told me i should just buy a kimber like everyone else does!

he did offer to order colt or springfield but at a premium price and a long wait.

there is one shop that wont play that game, thats where my money is spent.

[pa_guns]

Hi

The interesting thing that I seem to hear is that not everybody else buys the Kimbers.

Most of the store guys that I actually can talk to are amazed at the amount of counter space Kimber gets for the relatively small number of sales. It's not that they don't sell, they do, but not in proportion to the counter space. It's all about marketing ....

Any store that tells you there is only one brand of 1911 (including yes - Colts) is just plain wrong. There are a number of good companies out there. The place you want to shop is the one that lets *you* decide who to go with.

Bob

[WBB]

I was just on Davidson's site and they had over 100 Colt 1911's for sale. Doesn't sound like Colt is going out of business to me.

[KY NIMROD]

Marines and Colts. I'm seeing a pattern here. ;) :D
Hey Radar;
I'm not a Marine and I want a Colt, I also like S&W as far as handguns are concerned and IMHO they are the two best American handgun makers. I would like to have both but, I can only have one right now so I think the Colt will win. A gunshop owner here told me that his distributor told him that Colt had been bought out by General Dynamics an as a British Co they wouldn't be selling Colt Handguns anymore because they felt the American Public didn't need to own firearms, I guess if they had their way we'd still be under the rule of Great Britian I am sure glad they didn't get their way. You here all Kinds of things don't ya!!!!

[KY NIMROD]

"However, Kimber has recently increased the amount of inventory that a Master Dealer must carry, so he dropped them." Yeah....They need to forcibly increase sales to offset the huge expenses in replacing all those improperly engineered slides with external extractors..... :D
Well,
We all know the only company that knows how to make an External extractor work is S&W because they have been doing it since the 1950's. Like I said them and COLT are the best and as far as the 1911 is concerned COLT is the original. Oh if I could get me some more money!!!!!!!! Guys help me out I need to sell some guns to buy me a COLT. There is only one.

[OD*]

Nothing personal KY NIMROD, but your dealer is an idiot.

[Hunter]

Dang it OD that is what I was going to say. :mad:

[KY NIMROD]

Nothing personal KY NIMROD, but your dealer is an idiot.
He was just passing on what the idiot dist told him when I contacted Colt and asked them and they totally dispelled the rumor, he thanked me for finding out the TRUTH!!!!
he's OK he's just a small timer and he has to be well you know diplomatic.

[pa_guns]

Hi

It's amazing to me how long these rumors hang around. I suspect the only way to really put them to bed would be a bigger ad budget at Colt.

I'd rather save the 15% adder when I go and by my next Colt(s).

Bob

[OD*]

It has only gotten worse with the popularity of the internet Bob. The rumors really took hold in 1986 with the 4 year strike at Colt, now with the erronet, it raises it's head about every 6 months.

[daveohno]

It has only gotten worse with the popularity of the internet Bob. The rumors really took hold in 1986 with the 4 year strike at Colt, now with the erronet, it raises it's head about every 6 months.
Erronet, that is so appropriate in this case.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I certainly am not going to defend the internet as a source of accurate information.

The thing that I notice is that you usually hear the Colt story from guys at the gun counter. I rarely hear it from others unless they just heard it at the gun shop.

The only sales guys I have heard it from are more the "read every issue of Shotgun News" types rather than what I would call computer oriented. One give away is that the next comment may be about learning how to buy stuff on eBay ...

Bob

[auto45]

The shop I visit once in a while now has 4 Colts for sale. Up from 2 Colts six months ago and zero Colts months before that.

Now, I don't see any Springfields. ;)

Kimber still has the most models and the "top shelf".

[larry starling]

A gunshop owner here told me that his distributor told him that Colt had been bought out by General Dynamics an as a British Co they wouldn't be selling Colt Handguns anymore because they felt the American Public didn't need to own firearms,
Last time I looked General Dynamics is a US owned company. "Today, General Dynamics has leading market positions in business aviation and aircraft services, land and amphibious combat systems, mission-critical information systems and technologies, and shipbuilding and marine systems. The company is a leading supplier of sophisticated defense systems to the United States and its allies, and sets the world standard in business jets. It is headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 81,900 people worldwide, and has four main business segments: Aerospace, Combat Systems, Information Systems and Technology, and Marine Systems." go look for yourself. http://www.generaldynamics.com ;)

[daveohno]

See, it is a foreign company, it's headquarters is in the Country of Virginia.

Auto45, the fact that they have 4 Colt's now must mean that they're clearing the shelves at Colt so they can liquidate their stock before going out of business.....again, this time for sure. :D

[OD*]

General Dynamics, Saco & the New Colt Holding Corp.
http://www.gdatp.com/news/2000/NR00_04_051200.htm

[pa_guns]

Hi

The split between Colt Commercial and the rest of Colt has some people mixed up as well.

Time for a couple of ads in the mags or at least a story or two ...

Bob

[daveohno]

It's not too difficult to confuse "most" people. Our politicians have most of us confused darn near all the time.