Parkerizing ?

[Linea_de_Fuego]

I thought I would ask about Parkerizing.
I plan to have a sight cuts and checkering done to a 1991A1. Do you have to mask the rails and breach face of the slide, and how is this done. Does this repark affect the pin holes etc.? Also I plan to bob the hammer so how is the spur reparked without affecting the hammer hooks?

[Deacon Aegis]

Linea,
You should have no problem leaving these surfaces exposed during a parkerizing job. The parkerizing process will cause little effect to the smooth steel channels of the railways in the slide, the rails on the frame, and pin holes and such. A surface where you wish for a larger crystal structure to form will be where you'll want to make sure to have it abrasive blasted, but along those smooth surfaces only the trace coloration and a micro-thin surfacing of the phosphating process will occur and in my experience the smooth, polished surfaces that underwent the park process had no perceivable change in tollerances when fit together or measured by a caliper.

I've used "Shooter's Solutions" parkerizing formulas with good success, my experience is primarily with the manganese chemistry though. There's some good info you might find here http://www.parkerizingtanks.com/yabbse/index.php as well. Good luck and be sure to take before and after pics and let us know how it turns out for you.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

Thanks for the answer. I appreciate that. I felt that there was no way to mask these areas so I wondered if it was an issue.

[Deacon Aegis]

Linea, not a problem at all. If you want to be extreme in your pre-park prep, take a very flat and smooth piece of aluminum or steel and use that as a block along with some 600 grit sandpaper and polish the rails and breach face with a slurry of WD-40 to give you an ultra-smooth surface prior to the park job. You'll be slick as glass on those surfaces and quite happy with the results. Just be sure to have a really good water-displacing penetrating oil for the soaking aftert the park job if you do it yourself. I goofed up a cheap main spring housing last time I did a park because the oil I used wasn't really a good penetrating oil.

[.45_chef]

I recently parkerized my SA and was very,very happy with the results..Things to remember:

-de-grease
-sand or bead blast
-de-grease again
-simmer in parkerize solution
-when you take it out,RINSE then drench it in WD-40

I recommend the manganesse over the zinc phos. one...Its give you a deeper and darker grey...Almost black I guess it really depends on how the metal was heat treated(dunno how that works)....I got all my instructions here http://blindhogg.com/parkerizing.html

GOOD LUCK!!!


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/dhindo/border2.jpg

[John]

As you all know, there are special problems in sending parkerizing solutions to Europe, due to the Post Office regulations on hazardous material. So what I did, was to contact Henkel, the company which has purchased the Parker company and now owns the procedure or whatever. Someone from them called me a couple of days ago, and I think I'll be able to give it a shot at parkerizing here in Greece. If I have good results, I'll let you know.

[jaybo292]

Nice looking job .45 chef.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

I recently parkerized my SA and was very,very happy with the results..

Yours looks great... thanks for the tips.

[Deacon Aegis]

Heya John, if you can get standard alkaline batteries there is Greece, and I bet you can, you've got the basis for a good home-brew park job. :) I can probably dig up the formula for you if you'd like.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I agree that there is no need to mask the frame off during Parkerizing (or during bluing).

However - if you really want to do it anyway ....

There are RTV masking compounds used in various plating processes. They peal off when you are done with the plating. For higher temperature processes there are compounds that are more like a paint. They are a bit more difficult to remove.

Not worth the bother ....

Bob

[John]

Heya John, if you can get standard alkaline batteries there is Greece, and I bet you can, you've got the basis for a good home-brew park job. :) I can probably dig up the formula for you if you'd like.
Alkaline batteries? Sure we have, plenty of those. Send it over buddy!

[Deacon Aegis]

1000 ml distilled water
30 ml 85% phosphoric acid.
14 g Manganese dioxide (Mn02)
5 g fine iron filings.

The black stuff inside a D cell Alkaline battery is Manganese Dioxide. (Funny thing is, the core of the battery is zinc oxide, which is used to do the lighter grey parkerizing finish) You'll need several D cells to harvest 14 grams of the stuff. There is another avenue however that you may find a much friendlier source for Manganese Dioxide and that would be through a pottery supply house or possibly a ceramics shop. Manganese Dioxide is used in glazing certain types of pottery and it is a rather common process so it should not be difficult to find there.

If you want me to, when I get some free time, I'll do a bit of a step by step write-up on parkerizing with this method.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

I don't know if this information is current, but is this company a good source for the Parkerizing chemistry?

Palmetto Enterprises
2311A Old Parker Road
Greenville, SC 29609-6438

864-246-3836

Another alternative is to use the recipe described:

1000 ml distilled water
30 ml 85% phosphoric acid.
14 g Manganese dioxide (Mn02)
5 g fine iron filings.

[John]

Time to put my 6 years of Chemistry education to use. If only I didn't had to travel to downtown Athens to get those things!

[Roland]

Sorry to be bumping this thread, but I wouldn't suppose anyone here had gotten a parking kit from somewhere in europe?

[John]

Good luck on this! I am a chemist and I know you can get most of the chemicals needed for parkerizing from a chemical supplies store, there is nothing weird about them. But kits, for these you have to live in the right side of the Atlantic (that's the ... left one).

[Roland]

Yeah I think I can get the proper stuff if I wanted too. Is it all about mixing it together then and heating?

What I'm unsure about however would be the iron filings, I dunno where to get those and if I just got some scrap, how do I know I got the good stuff and not some ahem, bad stuff that pollutes the solution?

Edit, rather draconian filter this.

[John]

You can use a steel wool pad, in place of the filings.

[Roland]

Do I need to grind it into really fine particles then or is just the presence of iron in the solution enough?

[pa_guns]

Hi

The kit I just got says to just toss a steel wool pad into the diluted material. Yes I'm in the US, but I suspect the chemistry works the same way on both side of the Atlantic.

Bob

[John]

Yes, all you have to do is through the pad in the solution. The material of the pad is usually very fine and it has a huge surface compared to its volume. The steel wool (or iron filings) act as a catalyst for the chemical reaction, so that's all you need.

[pa_guns]

Hi

If you are going to start with stuff from the chemical supply store, what's a good recipe for Parkerizing? I have always bought the kits.

Bob

[Roland]

If you want me to, when I get some free time, I'll do a bit of a step by step write-up on parkerizing with this method.

I would love this :)

[John]

Hi

If you are going to start with stuff from the chemical supply store, what's a good recipe for Parkerizing? I have always bought the kits.

Bob
http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=184024

[pa_guns]

Hi

That's a pretty simple recipe.

I wonder if that's the only one, or if there are variations. Most of the kits seem to make up a mix you can re-heat....

Looks like the ingredients are pretty cheap. Even for a one shot solution it's not going to break the bank.

Bob

[John]

BAsically this is it. There are two parkerizing methods though, Zinc phosphating and Manganese phosphating. Pretty simple thing, the only crucial thing is that the pH of the solution should be maintained below a certain level. I do not remember what it is by heart, but it's not as if it is critical. The only problem is that I can't find any 4140 steel pieces to try it out first, before applying it to a pistol.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Old files are a good source of scrap to try out gun finishing on.

If pH is the main issue then the kits may have some buffering in them.

Of course with cheap digital pH meters balancing the mix with a little more acid or base probably isn't to tough. Of course I'd have to remember which way is the acid end. Worse yet I'd have to ask the Chemistry major wife .... :D :D

Bob

[Bloencustoms]

Acid is lower, base is higher, IIRC. I'm not a chemist, but I used to have an aquarium. :D

[John]

Correct, acid is lower, base is higher. 7 is the neutral.

[Roland]

Will the 5100 steel that norinco slides and frames are made of have any issues compared to 4140 steel? P.S. anyone remember the approx ph value to keep it at?

[John]

I do not think so, but you can not tell unless you try it on the same metal.

[Roland]

Hmm, you can repark just areas of a gun after it's initial parking, are there potential discoloring issues if you use a new batch?

For instance, say I went and parked my gun, then I got new sights and had to cut dovetails(going to happen), I'd have to make a new batch and then beadblast and prep the area I wanted fixed, would there be a big chance of this area then having a different color than the rest of the slide?

Sorry for all the questions!

[John]

I wish I knew, I've never done any parkerizing so I can't comment. All I've provided above are links from other people and some knowledge from my years as a chemist. Sorry.

[pa_guns]

Hi

All of the commonly used "weapons grade" steels should do just fine with Parkerizing. Stainless obviously will have a problem, but that is a different story.

Bob

[eldomatic]

All of the commonly used "weapons grade" steels should do just fine with Parkerizing. Stainless obviously will have a problem, but that is a different story.

So it is possible to parkerize or blacken stainless steel?

[Roland]

Nope, I've heard it will infact ruin the solution if you put stainless piece in it.

[pa_guns]

So it is possible to parkerize or blacken stainless steel?

Hi

Most stainless has chrome in it. That is not a good thing for a number of finishes and some forms of plating. I doubt there is anything classified as stainless that you can park or blue.

Bob

[johnlaw484]

No one has mentioned Brownells Gun Kote parkerized finish. I did my son's Norinco and the completed project rivals anything else I had ever seen.

The project requires bead or sand blasting, degreasing, applying the finish and baking for the required time.

The job looks as good now and it did 3 years ago when it was done.

The entire project took less than 5 hours. I know John says "do you want it fast or do you want it right" This stuff does both.
Regards
Johnlaw484 :lh:

[Lubaloy]

johnlaw,
I've done a fair amount of Gun Kote'ing.
If, 3 years later, your gun looks as good as the day you did it,
well........you don't daily carry in a holster.
;)
Gun Kote is great stuff, don't get me wrong. But if your gun never touches anything but the rug in your gunsafe, even Krylon holds up quite well.
:p

[John]

No one has mentioned Brownells Gun Kote parkerized finish.

Because that's not parkerizing. That's a spray and bake coating, which is made to imitate the looks of a parkerized gun. It's not parkerizing in any sense.

[johnlaw484]

Don't know what ya'll did wrong. But the gun has never been in a gun safe, in fact we don't even own a gun safe. The Norinco is carried everyday and still looks as good today as when it was done.
Agreed it is not parkerizing in the strictest sense of the word, but gives the same appearance, wear qualities and protection as the chemical application without all the **. Sorry guys I'll stick to my original statement.
Regards
Johnlaw484