Winchester primers?

[Jammer Six]

Just got back from the range.

My local supplier was out of Federal 150s, so I ended up with Winchester WLP's.

I also changed powder, so I started over with a minimum load, and loaded fifteen rounds of two minimum loads, and headed to the range with thirty rounds.

Out of thirty rounds, four of them didn't fire.

That is, the hammer fell, but the primer didn't fire- upon reloading and firing again, they all fired.

Is this common to Winchester primers?

Other details: a completely stock SA milspec, Bullseye powder and Berry's 200 SWC. Although I don't think any of that should make a difference.

I'm very disappointed, and I have two thousand of these!

[Maj Tom]

Just got back from the range.

My local supplier was out of Federal 150s, so I ended up with Winchester WLP's.

I also changed powder, so I started over with a minimum load, and loaded fifteen rounds of two minimum loads, and headed to the range with thirty rounds.

Out of thirty rounds, four of them didn't fire.

That is, the hammer fell, but the primer didn't fire- upon reloading and firing again, they all fired.

Is this common to Winchester primers?

Other details: a completely stock SA milspec, Bullseye powder and Berry's 200 SWC. Although I don't think any of that should make a difference.

I'm very disappointed, and I have two thousand of these!
Not to be redundant, but consistant…..I don't believe it is a primer issue. If you hit it, it will go bang. That assumes that the primer is seated correctly, the firing pin can hit the primer, and it hits with enough force to make it go bang. The most common culprit (IMO) with a stock pistol is not getting the primers seated. Remember, Federals are the softest and therefore the easiest to get to go bang. Also ensure that the firing pin isn’t damaged or precluded from full travel, etc….. I had to go up a pound on the mainspring weight (non-stock pistols)when I changed from Federals, couldn't find them in bulk (30K) …..

[pa_guns]

Hi

I have shot a lot of WLP's out of a variety of 1911's and never had a misfire. That includes a couple of Springfield Mil Spec's.

I have also used the Federals and have no problem with them either.

The two primers are a little different in dimensions. I can feel the WLP's seating on the Dillon 650, but can not feel the Federals. More or less - I bash the WLP's harder when I seat them.

Bob

[Hunter]

I use Winchester primers in all pistol and most rifle hand loads and have not yet had one failure to ignite with the first try. I agree and think it is not the primers.

[Woodman]

Was there an indention on the primer before you tried to fire them again?

I've used WLP for two years without a bad one yet.

[Jammer Six]

Yes, there was.

I noticed that the indentation didn't change when they fired after the second strike.

[Doug Casner]

I had a scenerio like maj. Tom described but it was in a smith. I dont remember the kind of primers but I wasnt gettin em seated deep enough. You could run your thumb over the head and feel the primer sticking out of the pocket. Doug

[Joni Lynn]

I use Winchester almost exclusively and don't have misfires. Any chance of a worn/weak hammer spring in your gun?

[Jammer Six]

I suppose there's a chance, but it has less than ten thousand rounds through it.

[Joni Lynn]

Does the hammer come back easy when you thumb it back or is it more stiff? These can degrade in a gun, I don't think they should but many things are possible. Does SA use a titanium firing pin? If the one in yours is made of that, it takes a good wack to ensure good ignition. Federal primers are the ones that go off the easiest, Winchester take a good thumpin' to go off. I had a S&W tuned up by magnaprt and it would misfire once in a while on Federals and wouldn't fire off a Winchester at all until hit a couple times. I replaced the parts they altered and it works fine now.
Also, I'm not familiar with how the ILS works if your gun even has one. No chance it is partially engaged is there?

[Jammer Six]

I'll double check the ILS, but I've never touched it.

The hammer is pretty stiff.

I believe the firing pin is titanium, but I'm not sure.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards me not seating the primers correctly. I understand that can make them harder to whack, and that Winchester primers don't seat as easily as Federals.

[Herb Clark]

I use both Fed. and Win. with 17# mainspring (full size Kimbers) and no problems. Did you remove firing pin and clean tunnel>

[Joni Lynn]

My 1911's run on 17 pound mainsprings and Winchester primers, no misfires yet. The primer do need to be fully seated, otherwise the firing pin will drive the primer forward in the case and a lot of the force of impact will be lost.

[pa_guns]

Hi

If your Springfield is made like mine it has a Titanium firing pin and an extra strong firing pin spring in the slide. The firing pin part number they show in the manual is for the 9mm sized pin. I don't know if they put an undersized pin in the pistols or if it's just a typo.

A soft hit on the primer can happen with this setup as the mainspring wears out. I'll bet if you call Springfield they will help you out. They have been *very* good to me so far.

Bob

[LeeCreekKid]

I have been using Winchester primers exclusively for the past 8 years and never had a miss fire. Even when others were complaining about bad batches of primers.

[ttaps]

ive been using winchester primer for some time now over cci . using a dillon 650. got the same experience (when reloader was new) ammo didnt fire on first try and did on the second. found the culprit, the primer wasnt seated properly. it needed the extra umph (push) (to seat the primer).

hey guys can you pm me the loading data for general dynamics OBP 241 I/ 462 powder for 230grain .45. , been using vita vouri N310 and just tried on the obp and the goes baaaaaang like a +p ammo. thanks guys

[Baldy]

I use nothing but Win primers, and never had a misfire out one yet.

[geof_s]

I use the Fed 150, CCI Large Pistol, and WLP primers in my .45 reloads and I have never had any of them fail to ignite. I also use all of them with the same charge weights. Never have had a problem.

Springfield uses a 9MM firing pin in their .45's. I guess it is easier for them to stock one pin size instead of two.

Geof

[Woodman]

From what I understand, the 9mm sized titanium firing pin used in Springfield 1911's is to help it pass California's "drop test". The 9mm pin is lighter than a .45ACP sized one, and as was mentioned, it's less costly to stock one part for your full range of guns instead of several parts.

Is a .45ACP sized firing pin a drop in part, or is there machining involved if I were to "upgrade" my 1911 to a heavier firing pin?

[pa_guns]

Hi

As far as I know the only distinction in 1911 firing pins is for the Model 80 Colts and others with firing pin block safeties. Other than that any firing pin should drop right in.

That said *always* check that the firing pin is the right length any time you swap one out on any pistol.


Bob

[pfc1966]

I use thousands of wlp and never had a ploblem, but have also used al brands of primers and never had a problem.The easiest way to check for a properly seated primer is to place a loaded or primed case on a flat surface. glass or a small mirror will work great.note how it stope moving. if it rocks and does not come to rest right now the primer is high and needs to be seated deeper (properly).

[lpspinner]

I've used Winchester primers for more then 15 years and not had a single failure with them. (Yet) (knock on wood)

I have a Wolff 16 pound recoil spring and the firing pin spring that comes with it.

Have you resolved the issue yet?

[AF First Sergeant]

No issues to report with Win primers.

[Jammer Six]

Well, over the weekend I loaded and shot 200 more rounds using WLP's. I made an effort to seat each primer hard and completely.

Out of those 200, I had 8 failures to fire, 7 of which fired on the second attempt.

So.

Given that Federal primers are easier to seat, why do you guys who swear by WLPs and use them exclusively do so?

Why would you use a primer that takes more effort to seat correctly?

[Joni Lynn]

I use WLP because I can use them in all my large primer handgun applications. They ignite WW296 in my 44 magnums just fine and they resist flattening well enough also. It's just sort of a do it all primer.

[Baldy]

Sounds like you got a weak spring in your gun. I shoot around 200 to 400rds a week in two different 1911/.45s and never have a dud primer. I load all of them loads myself. I am using box stock S&W. Winchester primers.

[Woodman]

Well, over the weekend I loaded and shot 200 more rounds using WLP's. I made an effort to seat each primer hard and completely.

Out of those 200, I had 8 failures to fire, 7 of which fired on the second attempt.

So.

Given that Federal primers are easier to seat, why do you guys who swear by WLPs and use them exclusively do so?

Why would you use a primer that takes more effort to seat correctly?

I don't know about Winchester taking more effort to seat. I've used Winchester primers since I started reloading two years ago and the only cases I have trouble seating in at all are Winchester cases (go figure). They seam to have a tight primer pocket, but once I get one seated, the next time I reload it, the primer slides right in. I have the same issue with CCI primers (my shop was out of WLP's last time I was buying primers) and the only ones difficult to seat are once fired Winchester cases.

Other than that, I've never had a primer not go off when hit with my firing pin.

I agree with the other folks here, you may have a bad firing pin spring.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I have seen the seating issue on both once fired UMC and once fired Winchester brass. Simply put the WLP's seat "right" and the Federals seat "easy". You get a positive feel seating the WLP's. It's not that they don't fit, it's that the Federal primers are a bit smaller and seat looser.

Bob

[lpspinner]

I use a single stage press a lot to prime. I don't have to do any extra work. They seat right the first time and the first try. I use WSP, WLP, WSR & WLR. I load everything from .380 up to .30-06. In a Walther PPK, AR-15, various bolt actions...They all go bang the first time.

Now I do have a few CCI Large Pistol primers handy and I have noticed they need a little more pressure to seat.