Problems with "Super Lubes" ?

[danang]

I've read many of the threads here about lubrication. Some like Militec, some FP10, Mobil 1, Slide Glide,, on and on. I want to report on an experience I had a month or so ago and see if it is a real concern or not. I filled a lube bottle with Militec a couple of months ago and set it on top of my cabinet. Went back a month or so later and found a 1" puddle along side the bottle. Only, it wasn't liquid...it was a VERY tenacious, rubbery, sticky polymer substance that resisted tearing and removal. I said,"Oh, my". I then duplicated the puddle with both the original Militec, and added separate puddles of my other favorites, FP10, EEZOX, and Redline 40 (a pure synthetic racing motor oil). The Militec duplicated the mess, the FP10 remained a puddle, the EEZOX made a much thinner coat, and the Redline 40 remained as a puddle. Now, my question. I know that Militec instructions say to rub the lube in then bring to an elevated temperature to cure the application. What happens if, in the application, some runs down into cracks and crevices, around critical parts....as the disconnector or firing pin...and then proceeds to polymerize into that hard rubbery stuff that won't let the parts function? I imagine this might take several months, and God knows I wouldn't EVER leave a gun of mine in the safe without cleaning it for 3 or 4 months...or would I? Has anyone else ever had this phenomenon occur? Is it something of concern? As of now, I'm leaving the Militec out of my pistols, wiping the reachable parts inside and outside with EEZOX (no better rust preventive, in my opinion) and lubing the sliding and rubbing parts with FP10, or if I want a little thicker lube, the Redline 40. It seems to stay in place better. Anybody with thoughts/experiences about this? Thanks.

[Captain America]

I never used any "super lubes" but I would be concerned about what militec was doing inside my pistol. Since the early 70's all I have used on my firearms is Hoppes #9,
Break Free and 3 n 1 Oil. With no problems whatsoever, I have pistols with many
thousands of rounds through them. All of them look and function as new. Some have
mostly been cleaned and lubed with 3 n 1 oil. IMHO, 95% of the super modern cleaning and lubricating products are a complete waste of money.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Most of the super lubes are intended to be used in *very* small quantities. If you (like me) grew up in the "more is better" school of lubrication adjustments need to be made.

I don't have a need to lube a pistol today and use it four months from now. I prefer a bit of lube at the start of each range session. That works for me. It also rules out several products.

Bob

[Deacon Aegis]

Danang,
I've been using Militec-1 for almost a year now in a broad variety of applications and have never-ever seen Militec react as you are describing. I have numerous carbon components fairly well packed in the stuff for longer-term storage as I tend to amass slides and other parts and sit on them for many moons before use and rust simply won't do.

This leads me to ask where you got your supply of Militec from? Did you order from Adaptive Molecular Technologies (www.militec-1.com) or did your supply come from a gun show or some other place where the substance in the bottle might possibly be something other than what you think you are buying?

Honestly, I've been using this stuff everywhere and under a huge range of conditions and there is simply absolutely no form of polymerization coagulation occurances anywhere in my experience with the stuff.

[Spindly61]

+1 on Militec also. I haven't had any reaction at all,as described above. My lubrication is about 5 drops for a 1911.

[danang]

Deacon and Spindly: The Militec I have came directly from the factory. The experience I had was, to say the least, unexpected. Try my double blind experiment unblinded. Take a teaspoon full (about) and put it in a puddle on top of some out of the way spot and wait a month or two and see if it happens to you. Happenend to me. I'm just concerned that, if I do as Spindly does, put a few drops here and there where things move, and leave it for months (got more than one 1911) that I'll replicate the polymer puddle. Inside the gun. Hey...this is just a question...not casting aspersions on any product yet. Just want to know if this is an isolated problem or if this is a potential catastrophic problem when you want your seldom used piece to function. I think if you only applied it as Militec recommends, i.e., burnishing it into the metallic pieces and curing it with heat, indirect or by firing the weapon, no problems would ensue. However, if we treat it as OIL, and put drops here, and drops there, that can seep into interstices within the weapon and then polymerize to immobilize the parts...somebody might have problems. That is my point to ponder about this post. JMHO

[Spindly61]

I appreciate the information and will keep an eye out. Most of my 5 drops gets wiped off to avoid seeping oil. The only place it doesn't is the drop on the disconnect. 1 on each rail wiped with Q-tip. One in each locking lug,Q-tip again. drop on the finger wiped around the end of the barrel. I'll try it out. I believe you have no reason to arbitrarily post something without merit or well intentions.

[Deacon Aegis]

Danang,
I wonder if what you are finding is that in a larger suspension of the lubricant allowed to sit and settle for extended periods of time, the oil which suspends the dry lubricant emulsion saturates away from the general mass of the initial puddle, leaving only the dry lubricant component sitting in far less of the original emulsion base. This would indeed probably tend to leave a nasty residue build up and certainly reflects on the properties of what militec-1 is.

The dry lubricant in Militec-1 is designed to be applied in vastly smaller quantities and that dry lubricant component, when applied in fractional amounts compared to what would be in a small spill, is the synthetic component that penetrates the pours of the metal, creating the "dry lubricant" efffect militec is used for. Typically, in applications such as applied to the surface metals of a firearm, any build-up of this dry lubricant synthetic would not occur, however you do bring up an absolutely valid point in that used as if it were a normal gun oil and allowed to coagulate around the internal action components could possibly cause a residue build up as you have observed. This stuff is certainly not meant to be applied like that and I agree it could present a major problem if trailers and dollops of the stuff were allowed to dry in the action without hacving been cleaned up. This is definately one of those substances where a little goes a long way.

[danang]

Deacon...that may be the answer...the separation, I mean. The stuff I got, I got from the manufacturer. He also recommends it for running in engines and transmissions. I digress. I have a 4 oz. plastic bottle of the stuff that I have had sitting on the shelf for a few months. Half full. A ring of the plastic stuff has formed around the level of the fluid and is adherant to the bottle. Not solid, because in contact with the liquid, but gummy. I can tip the bottle and scrape some off with a wooden stick and it is sticky between my fingers. Brownish in color. Don't know if oxidation or the "dry lube" in the bottle. I think you are right. And the factory directions state to apply, burnish in and heat to form the surface lube. I only wondered what would happen if some of us did allow it to puddle and creep where it shouldn't...like in the trigger track or in the frame surrounding the sear and hammer.

[danang]

Spindly...if you would like a sample of the goop I refer to, I have some on a Q-Tip that I scraped out of a factory bottle of MILITEC which I'll be glad to put into a baggie and mail to you for your perusal or analysis. Give me a snail address and I'll send it along. I do have "well intentions" and the merit of them will be for you and the others on the site to judge. If you will. I really do resent that final remark...I thought the purpose of this site was to post observations for the good of all. My intentions were and are to alert those members who might wish to put a small drop of Militec to seep down into cracks, thinking that all will be well; when, there is a chance that they won't be well and when it is needed, it won't go "BOOM". Such as the drop on the disconnect you mention. JMHO

[Deacon Aegis]

danang,
I've spoken with several others who have used the product over in Iraq in the service and according to them it is precisely what I think we've been suspecting in that the build up is the dry lubricant that is suspended in the petroleum solution building up where the liquid base is allowed to absorb away without carrying the dry lubricants with it. According to several individuals I've spoken with they actually dip a bandana into the stuff, using the rag to apply the lube in small quanties to their firearms, then letting the heat of the environment and gravity do its job as they let the liquid lube drip away leaving the solids still on the bandana. They'd use the resultant "soap rag" as a fast-applicator for buffing a bit of extra lube into their guns like buttering hot corn fresh from the pot. In a more practical undertanding though, I've been told you apply this stuff to like q-tips or cotton swabs and never directly to the gun and then swab it into the firearm as needed. Letting this stuff run on a firearm means too much is being used and certainly, anything used incorrectly can indeed cause problems to optimal functionality. Anyway, that's what I've been told so far, I think I might call up or email Militec and see what their official explanation and application recommendations are so that all hear-say can be laid to rest. ;)

[JeffVN]

+1 on the use in Iraq and the need to be careful on how much you apply. I've been running it for years on my various 1911s in Houston, with no adverse results. Then again, I do not clean lube, then store for 6 to 8 months before the next use.

JeffVN

[TonyW]

I haven't seen Militec stiffen, but I have never let a puddle of it dry or used it except sparingly. I just checked my 2 plastic bottles of it, one 4 oz. and the other .75 oz. which have been sitting for years- ( I stopped using it after reading some comparison tests that showed it really wasn't the best in preventing rust in salty conditions, sweaty hands, etc)- and there was no sign of it solidifying. Maybe the cap on your bottle was not on tight? As for the Eezox (which I use), it is supposed to leave behind the kind of film you saw, which is why the instructions say to wipe off any excess after you let it dry for a bit. The film remaining will be dry and won't attract sand, etc,. still lubricates, and is supposedly the best for rust protection. But guess it probably is not a good idea to just squirt it or the Militec where it might run into some action parts you can not wipe off without complete disassembly! I think it is time I completly took apart a couple of guns to check for solidified goop! Thanks for the heads up.

[danang]

I use and prefer the Eezox. I did not find a ball of goop when I ran the same test on the Eezox as I inadvertantly did on the Militec. I think Deacon and the troops are just right. Rub it in, rub it off, heat it up, you'll be fine.

[191145]

danang; the problem with what you're doing is mixing lubes on the same gun. Eezox is certainly one of, if not the best gun products ever devised. Like already stated, it is supposed to dry into a film which remains, protecting and lubricating. I'd recommend you to use it and no other lube or grease. Different chemical compounds can react and turn into something other than a great gun lube. My only problem with Eezox is finding it! Your description of the Militech sounds like something I don't want to use. I do not buy into the theory that it only polymerizes in thick concentrations, and thin applications are okay. It's still the same stuff, and one of the primary attributes of a great gun lube is it must not gum or turn to varnish - ever. You'll find FP-10 in that category as you already found out, along with Eezox (which always turns out to be the best corrosion-proofer in the salt water tests).

[Joni Lynn]

Some lubricants seem to settle or evaporate or whatever. The lube Remington used to use in its triggers would turn into something more closely relalted to cement.
I'm now using Slip200 gun oil and Wilson slide grease. I used to use Tetragun but it dried up and was sorta weird feeling with more of a rubbery feel than a slippery feel.

[pa_guns]

Hi

Depending on the lube all sorts of odd things can happen. Evaporation is probably the best of the bunch. Oxidization can create all sorts of odd gummy products. The lube can also cross link and create a nice rubber. In both cases it's not much of a lube once it does.

Grease seems to be a good idea for long term storage.

Bob

[danang]

I agree with most of these posts...shouldn't turn into rubber is the best comment yet. I use Eezox on the handling parts of the pistol. I lube with grease on the barrel and bushing...Mobil 1 with a bit of FP10 stirred in to decrease viscosity. Maybe bad, but works for me. For the rails, I have been using FP10 and do use it for most things. I have a Marvel conversion unit that is TIGHT. I use a mix on it that my friend, a Master Tool and Die maker devised...DEXRON ATF 80%, STP10%, and Marvel Mystery Oil 10%. Creeps, high load resistance, and slippery as the dickens. Not too thick for the Marvel. (The pistol, not the oil). His formula is great for the old galling stainless pistols too. I'll give him credit...the name is: "Meyers' Best Lube." Before using it, I'd get a half dozen failure to feed per 100 rnds. Now, none. If I were in the sandbox, I'd probably use Militec or Eezox, but rub it in as described. Thank the Lord , I'm not. The Nam was enough for me. Only thing I don't like about it is that the ATF is red. If red on your clothes for the CCW folks bothers you, then either FP10 or rub in the EEZOX. JMHO

[koabich]

I too use Militech on all my stuff. I do only use it for the slide/frame rails however so I am only using 4 dops at each cleaning. There has been more than one ocassion where some of my guns have sat for months at a time in between use and have never had the problem you are describing. I bought a rather large bottle of the stuff (8oz I think) and this has lasted me over a year and I still have 8/10th's of the bottle remaining. I do not have any build up like you describe inside the bottle either.

There have also been instances where the lube ran down the bottle and accumulated in a small puddle on the shelf. The puddle had to be there for several weeks, at least, before I noticed it. It wiped right up, no scrubbing or solidification...one pass with a towel was all it took.

After reading one of the other posts above, I realized that I do shake the bottle before each use. This is out of habbit and not necessity. But I wonder if the shaking of the bottle helps? I can say that my bottle has been sitting on a shelf for 3 months without me touching it do to the fact that I have not been able to go to the range. I just checked the bottle and everything seems normal...no buildup of any kind. There was also a puddle of lube on the rim of the bottle that has been sitting for the same time period that also wiped right up and left no residue at all.

I wonder if you received a bad batch or if the bottle you have was contaminated with something. The smaller bottle you poured the Militech into, was it a new bottle or did it previously have another material in it the Militech could have reacted with? Did the same problem happen with the Militech and the bottle it came in from the factory?

[danang]

The bottle was the flip top (press top) factory bottle. Just happened, thats all. I will say that the manufacturers are the nicest people I've dealt with...gave them a name of a soldier in the sand and they shipped him some gratis!!! Great people. I think that the lesson, if any, from this thread is to read the instructions and follow them.